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Phantom Pain? Any input on dosages for meds?
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7 July 2017 - 2:50 pm
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Yay Zato and Tracy! I'm so happy to hear that! Also yay for dissolvable sutures 🙂

Ours went ok in that I feel we have a chance at catching up with the pain now. We have Amantadine, Gabapentin, Rimadyl and Tramadol for if it gets bad. He doesn't do that well on Tramadol. Rimadyl is good in combination with Amantadine and Gabapentin for these kind of pains. She did lower his dose to 75mg/day instead of 100mg/day because he weighs 19.6kg now. 

Amantadine 1xday

Gabapentine 3xday

Rimadyl 2xday

Tramadol as needed

So we wait and see. He didn't yelp as much last night. When she did the exam she told me she suspects he might have a partial acl tear in his right knee BUT that could be his arthritis and the fact that he's been laying around for 2.5 weeks now too. He really doesn't want to extend it. He did yelp when we were walking outside a minute ago due to his knee. They did manipulate it and it might be a flare up, it might not. I can't wait to get him to hydrotherapy. It's just one thing after the other...I am icing his knee right now. 

Tracy, I am so happy for you guys. Way to go Zato heart

Mascha & Schlomo

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7 July 2017 - 8:34 pm
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Tracy- So happy to hear the news on Zato! I imagine it must be such a relief for you! Keeping my fingers crossed that things continue to improve!

Mascha- Glad to hear that you feel like you are able to better manage Schlomo's pain now. Sorry to hear that he may be dealing with a partial tear. How unfair to have to be dealing with something else on top of post surgery pain! Out of curiosity, since we are hoping to start Amantadine this weekend, what dosage was he given? I hope his new concoction of pain meds brings him better pain relief.

So Daisy went in for an MRI this morning. The surgeon called this morning to let us know they didn't find anything so while Daisy was still sedated she was going to go back in and explore. Similar to what you had mentioned Sally about the dog Charlie, she found an abnormal bundle of nerves adhered to the back of an artery that was cut during amputation. They said they had a difficult time with anesthesia as Daisy's heart rate was up around 150 and she was hypertensive. As soon as she removed the inflamed bundle of nerves her blood pressure dropped and her heart rate went down to 80. They were hopeful that indicated they had identified the source of pain. She told us she was sending the tissue sample away for biopsy. They will be keeping Daisy until Monday or Tuesday so they can manage her pain. They inserted a catheter so they can infuse pain med directly to the site.  The surgeon told us today she is considering publishing her case to help inform others. I will admit, I have been an emotional wreck today- hopeful tears of happiness and also tears of sadness for the horrific pain she endured for 2 weeks. They are encouraging us to visit her daily starting tomorrow so we are looking forward to seeing her again (hoping I can keep it together- I've learned from this site the importance of positive energy!). Once home, we will be back to 2 more weeks of rest until staple removal but at least she's already got the walking on 3 legs down!

Sally- you had mentioned the video of Charlie that the owner posted. I had considered posting a video of one of Daisy's episodes but ultimately decided not to. If you think it might be helpful in some way to other members I will certainly do so. I just might need a little direction on how to do it.

Tiffany and Daisyheart

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7 July 2017 - 8:57 pm
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Tiffany, I'm relieved to hear from you. 

What a nightmare today must have been! I am glad to hear they found a cause and I understand the horror of realizing what kind of pain she must have been in this whole time. I am sending you loads of love and light. You are taking such good care of her and the fact that you can get her in to these procedures is amazing.

She will be so happy to see you 🙂 I think she will understand the occasional tear. They are tears of relief and fear and anger, there is so much emotion. We've all had them... Michelle told me the shower is a great place to cry and I have used that a lot these last few weeks. It was really helpful. 

Schlomo is on 100mg Amantadine once a day now. We started this morning and I will keep you updated. I know... re: having to deal with something else other than post surgery pain. I feel so bad for him. I do think pt will make a huge difference for him. 

Please keep updating and give your Daisy a big smooch. 

Much love,

Mascha & Schlomo heart

Virginia
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7 July 2017 - 9:21 pm
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YO JERRY! Can you find the posts on the Yellow Lab...pretty sure his name is Charlie...Charley. He was in horrific pain and was at first treated unsuccessfully for phantom limb. When she posted a video CLEARLY something more was going! That's when the surgeon went back in and discovered the "nerve issue".''it almost seems like he was operated in twice before it was fixed completely!'

TIFFANY....really sorry you are having to deal with this vut sooooo glad they are now on top of it and have the plan in place to take care of it!!''WOW!!! Just hearing about how Daisy's heart rate lowered once they took care of the nerve issue...just WOW!

Lots of hugs! Get some rest!!!

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

And ues, a video will be very helpful for others. You have to put it on a YouTube account and then "share" it by copying it to clipboard. At least that's how it's done on a tavlet.

And Schlomo just did not need a knee issue doggone it! What does the Vet say for treatment? Rest? Pain meds?

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

The Rainbow Bridge

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8 July 2017 - 8:56 am
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YO JERRY! Can you find the posts on the Yellow Lab...pretty sure his name is Charlie

Are you sure you're not thinking of Oliver?

http://tripawds.....5/#p166798

I had considered posting a video of one of Daisy's episodes but ultimately decided not to. If you think it might be helpful in some way to other members I will certainly do so. I just might need a little direction on how to do it.

How do I add a YouTube video to my forum post

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8 July 2017 - 9:32 am
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Mascha - not yelping as much last night is good, and I hope he gets better every day!

Tiffany - I  am so glad you kept pushing for answers and your vet did, too!  She should definitely publish that - it could save so much agony for pets and their people in the future!

Tracy & Zatoichiheart

Former neglect case/shelter dog, adopted in 2009.  Read my story hereElder statesman of Richard & Tracy's pack!  

Diagnosis of presumed osteosarcoma of the left proximal humerus on October 29, 2016 ~ Palliative Radiation & Zoledronate treatments November 2016 thru June 2017 ~ Left foreleg amputation on June 29, 2017 ~ Homeopathy with Dr. Loops starting July 2017.

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8 July 2017 - 9:14 pm
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Wow! That video of Oliver reminded me a lot of Daisy- so hard to watch 🙁 Thank you for sharing the link Jerry and the instructions on how to post a video. I am going to try to post the link to one of our videos here but should I be posting it in a separate forum as well? 

We were able to visit Daisy today. Although she was pretty sedated she seemed SO much better! Her breathing was normal and she laid down so easily. No constant circling and most importantly, no yelping! A covering vet had called this morning and said she was resting comfortably but was not eating for them so we packed her a few days worth of food (we do a home cooked diet) and brought it with us. Although she wouldn't eat from the bowl, my daughter was able to hand feed her all her food (slowly and in spurts) during our visit. Thankfully they didn't rush us and we had a private room so we were able to spend almost 2 hours with her. It was so good to see her and though it was hard to leave, knowing she was so much more comfortable made it a little easier. Keeping our fingers crossed that tomorrow's visit goes just as well and that she continues to make progress!

Thank you all for your kind words. Knowing there are others who truly understand helps immensely heart

Tiffany and Daisy

Mascha, Thanks for the dosing info. They have Daisy on 75mg 2xday but we weren't able to get that dose locally so we had to order through a compounding pharmacy and it won't be here until later this week. They did say in the interim we could use 100mg tablets.  Keep us updated on how this works for Schlomo. Hoping you can find relief for him soon! I'll be sending positive thoughts your way heart

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8 July 2017 - 9:38 pm
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I'm so glad she's better - that made me cry but it may help someone.  I'm just so relieved she's better - oh sweet Daisy! I can imagine how you must have felt. Zato didn't cry that long but the lip licking was like that.  My heart broke for her and for you!

It has made my night that she's doing better.  Will be thrilled when she can be home with you on her road to recovery!

Tracy & Zatoichiheart

Former neglect case/shelter dog, adopted in 2009.  Read my story hereElder statesman of Richard & Tracy's pack!  

Diagnosis of presumed osteosarcoma of the left proximal humerus on October 29, 2016 ~ Palliative Radiation & Zoledronate treatments November 2016 thru June 2017 ~ Left foreleg amputation on June 29, 2017 ~ Homeopathy with Dr. Loops starting July 2017.

Virginia
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8 July 2017 - 10:17 pm
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Well no wonder I couldn't find the video...it was Oliver....nothing close to the name Charlie! But yes, that's exactly the one I was looking for!! Hey, at least I get points for knowing we had something similar that was NOT phantom!

Soooo relieved to hear how much better Daisy is doing! To be out of pain is such a relief!!! And YAY for home cooked food beingnhand feed! Whatever works!! 🙂

Not sure what Jerry thinks, but I thinknitnwoukd be helpful to jave the videomof Daisy andnthe video of Oliver posted under a thread basically showing what it looks like when it's NOT phantom limb pain, but rather it IS an exposed nerve

Lots of hugs tonall!

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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10 July 2017 - 8:07 am
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Thank you Tracy! Yes, the episodes were quite traumatic for all of us. It took us a while before we could videotape one as our first instinct was to comfort her. This particular video was just the tail end of an episode but certainly enough to show the vet it was not behavioral but pain related! Daisy is one of the quietest dog I've known- never whines or barks (even when people come to the house- we rely on our 15yr old lab to be our watch dog :-)) so it was especially difficult to hear her so vocal. On a positive note, we visited her again last night and saw even more improvement! She gave us more kisses and tail wags than we've seen since before amputation! Hooray! After lots of lovin' she sacked out comfortably with her new pillow that her auntie made her. It was so nice to see her stretching out and with normal, rhythmic breathing. They are weaning her off the soaker catheter today so we are keeping our fingers crossed that she continues to feel good. If everything goes well today, she may be able come go home tomorrow! I'll be sure to update!

How is Zato doing? Still feeling better I hope! I noticed under your last post that you wrote that he would be starting homeopathic treatments soon. Our regular vet practices homeopathy and so we already have Daisy on some Chinese herbs and once she is healed from her procedures she will be starting her on some new meds. We did also have an appt with an oncologist (ironically her first chemo was scheduled for today which obviously won't be happening) but now I'm unsure if I want to go the chemo route at all. Out of curiosity, what's the protocol that your vet has Zato on? And have you opted out of chemo treatments? 

Mascha- How is Schlomo? Have you found that the amantadine is helping? Really hoping he is feeling better. And yes, I meant to post earlier that the shower has been a great place to shed some tears- thanks for that advice 🙂

Tiffany and Daisy heart

Virginia
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10 July 2017 - 8:26 am
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SOOOOOO HSPPY TO NEAR DAISY IS IMPROVING!! 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 This has been sooooo hard for you voth!!

Sounds like they have everything under control and she'll be home tomorrow. Now THAT will be a fun video to watch and see her wagging happy self back home!

Yeah, not unusual for the first chemo to ve delayed due to "recovery challenges". So you have time to just get her home and get settled and revisit that option when things calm down.

Okay Daisy! Let's get you home! 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

Hugs!

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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10 July 2017 - 9:39 am
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Sorry I am only replying now, I was working all weekend. 

Tiffany, that was hard to watch but I am really glad you did record it for people to witness and most importantly that Daisy is improving. I am so very happy to hear that!!! The video reminds me of what Schlomo did in his episodes prior to amputation. He had this what looked like cramps any time he got up or got startled where he yelped/shrieked so loudly and wouldn't stop. It was horrible. We couldn't get a handle on it which was part of the decision to amputate in addition to the cancer that had progressed to stage 2. I can empathize. 

We started him on Amantadine and he still get's Gaba 3xday but only 100mg for now. We did that to be able to tell apart what helps instead of adding both Amantadine and double the dose of Gaba at the same time. He is yelping less. He does have an occasional yelp but it is less. Sunday he was knocked out from the long walk he did on Saturday but he is in good spirits. He does turn his head around to the right side and I interpret that as looking for his leg. Do your guys do that? 

I would love to hear more on what kind of homeopathic remedies and Chinese herbs you have Daisy and Zato on. I have Schlomo on a bunch too, it would be great to compare and see what you do. 

I am keeping all my fingers crossed that you can take Daisy home tomorrow!!!

Sending love to you all. 

Mascha & Schlomo heart

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10 July 2017 - 12:13 pm
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Hi Tiffany - I'm sooooo so glad Daisy is doing so much better! I really hope she gets to come home tomorrow :).

Zato is doing pretty well. He's not yelping anymore and only whimpering now and then when he's trying to get up on his "bad" side!  His appetite is great and he doesn't have any trouble walking or getting around.  He does wag his tail when he's up.  Most of the time he's down though, and I think he's ok, he's just drugged!  We're supposed to start backing off everything at the end of the week, and I think he'll get that sparkle back then :).

Dr. Loops has him on a 5 day protocol - Hecla lava taken on days 1 and 3, sulfur taken on days 2 and 4, and something called carcinosin plus on day 5.  Every day he takes a cell salt combination.  At the end of 6 weeks, he gets refills and I think the potency changes.

We decided to pursue this route instead of chemo.  After the radiation and the monthly zoledronate and the surgery, I feel we're going to do the homeopathy.  I don't really have a reason I can put into words, but in Zato's case I feel this is the right thing to do.  Of course something may change - we swore we wouldn't amputate last October, too!  I had a Spaniel who had lymphoma and we did chemo with her.  She did great - no side effects, and it gave us 4 more good months. As soon as the chemo stopped, it came back.  I don't know if that has anything to do with it subconsciously or not.  I'm glad we did it, though.

Hi Mascha - Yay for Schlomo!  That is such great news!  I have not seen Zato look for his leg, but he's pretty doped up right now!  We haven't been for any walks but we will start increasing his activity when he's soberblush.  We're looking into a cart for him to protect his old joints (but they're in good shape!).  I also want to take him to at least one rehab session - we found a rehab vet about 45 minutes away.

I hope your sweeties continue to do well!!

Tracy & Zatoichiheart

Former neglect case/shelter dog, adopted in 2009.  Read my story hereElder statesman of Richard & Tracy's pack!  

Diagnosis of presumed osteosarcoma of the left proximal humerus on October 29, 2016 ~ Palliative Radiation & Zoledronate treatments November 2016 thru June 2017 ~ Left foreleg amputation on June 29, 2017 ~ Homeopathy with Dr. Loops starting July 2017.

Minnesota
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11 July 2017 - 10:43 am
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Mascha, Tracy and Tiffany - 

I have been following along with your blogs and updates here and just wanted to take a moment to let you know how impressed I am with you ladies. You are all such amazing advocates for Schlomo, Zato and Daisy and they are so lucky to have Moms who love them so much and will research and ask questions and comfort them and work tirelessly to help their kiddos feel better. This community is incredible and getting to read about all of you working together and supporting each other is incredibly heartwarming. 

It sounds like Daisy gets to come home today? I hope that she continues to get better. Thank you for sharing that video, it was almost impossible to watch so I can't imagine trying to help her through that every day.

Is Zato still doing better on the increased gaba? I am so glad that he seemed to be getting some relief. He's such a happy little guy and I know you were so worried.

Today is Schlomes PT right? I hope he loves the hydro and I can't wait to hear (and hopefully see) that. I hated to hear about his ACL and I hope they have a helpful suggestion on how to proceed and hope the PT helps. 

Best wishes to all of you and big hugs to you and your doggies. Bravo Ladies!!

heart Amy & Rusty

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11 July 2017 - 1:47 pm
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I spoke with one of the vets earlier today and although they would still like to send Daisy home today, he did say she had a small yelping episode this morning 🙁 They are still hopeful since it’s her first in many days but I can’t help but feel sick to my stomach again. As soon as I called my husband to update him, the tears returned. I am so fearful of going back to square one. During our visit yesterday I didn’t find her to be as enthusiastic as the previous day. It was a different time of day so I was hopeful that she may have been a little groggier because of when she may have received her meds. I know the importance of staying positive- especially around our pups- so I am trying my hardest. I will be happy to have her back home!

Mascha- It sounds like you dealt with something very similar with Schlomo. Daisy will also tense up/stiffen during her episodes. They are definitely hard to watch. So glad to hear that Schlomo seems to be doing better with less yelping! I hope that continues for him! I haven't noticed Daisy turning towards her missing leg but I wonder if it’s different when losing a front vs back leg? (Is it Schlomo’s back leg that was amputated?)

Tracy- Great news on Zato! It sounds like he’s starting to round the corner! I bet once he is off the meds you will notice a big change in his energy level. And thank you for sharing the homeopathic protocol! Once Daisy is settled, I am going to discuss options with our vet. Right now she has her on a Chinese herb, Si Miao San, hoxsey and boneset herbal tincture and vaccinium/blueberry/bilberry drops. I'll let you know if we add anything else in the near future.

Amy- Thanks so much for your kind words! It certainly does help to have a support group to rally around you during tough times and cheer you on when things are going well! 🙂

Tiffany and Daisy heart

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