Caring for a Three Legged Dog or Cat
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has anyone done iv vitamin c with carboplatin for their dog with osteosarcoma? My 9 year old healthy male Rottweiler just had a leg amputation for and the pathology came back as telangietatic osteosarcoma. I have an appt. next week with my local state university teaching small animal hospital who is doing clinical trails for carboplatin and iv vitamin c. I dont even know anyone with a dog with cancer. So i dont even know if I should do chemo for him? is it the right thing? the pros and the cons? the costs? the time? his side effects? will it really slow the progression and possible spread?
Hi @beast & pup, welcome. Your future posts won't need to wait for approval, so post away. You're in good company, now you know lots of folks who have or had dogs with cancer, including myself.
Which university hospital are you going to? Is it this trial at Iowa State?
It's awesome the vets are looking into IV Vitamin C treatments. It's long been suspected to be helpful and many integrative veterinarians use it for clients, but I've never heard of conventional vets using it in dogs. We were just discussing it with Milagro's people. On the human side, I know that my sister-in-law gets the injections for her metastatic breast cancer therapies (and she's been doing great for years!). It's a relatively benign treatment that is supposed to have really good effects. I haven't heard of anyone getting sick from it but that's not to say it hasn't happened.
Any time you enroll in a canine cancer clinical trial, you are helping to further veterinary science for all dogs. It's an awesome thing to consider! Quality of life is always the focus, so anything that is done in the name of research is done with your pup's happiness in mind.
i dont even know if I should do chemo for him? is it the right thing?
It's a very personal decision. Statistically chemo will give a dog with osteosarcoma a better shot at beating the odds. Is it a guarantee? Nope. Stats say it will help, but no guarantees can be made. Many dogs do great with chemo, some do not. Many dogs do great without it too. What it comes down to is, what will help you know that you did what your dog (is Beast his name?) wants you to do. It's a heavy responsibility for sure, but if you make the decision with love and respect for his wants and needs, that's all that matter. Nobody can make the decision for you, because you know him best. And whatever you decide, nobody here will judge you for the path that you take. Every situation is different.
I hope this helps. Stay tuned for feedback from others!
Thank you for the reply. Yes Its the Iowa State Trial. I do have a question I hope someone can answer. Beast two weeks before surgery started panting hard (like running) so I put him on Carprofen and that helped. Since the Surgery, 6/15/22 he pants constantly (at a steady pace, like he hot) I cant tell if its dehydration? his tongue is pink, (but sometimes he drinks well, sometimes he refuses and I give him water with a syringe) is it pain? Im giving him his Carprofen every 12 hours, Gabapentin every 12, cbd oil twice a day, amoxicillin twice a day, and amantadine every 12 hours. (these meds seem excessive, but to be honest, he seems drugged up and still in pain at morning and night but fine mid day) He definantely is bothered by nerves in the missing leg as I have seen twitching in his leg (missing) . Or could this already be invading other parts of his body? (chest xrays we clear 5/16/22, and pre and post blood work came back fantastic) I read other peoples blogs that their dog panted alot till full recovery of the limb. I have to say though, is everyone going through this? is this a normal tripawd reaction? I think he/me sleep 4 hours a night with no panting. The rest of the night its back to agitation/panting all night long. What am I doing wrong?
Will come back later, but wanted to pop in quickly about the pain meds. Of course, we are not Vets and not giving vet advice so you need to run all this by your vet.
Most likely all you need to do is tweak the dosage of the gabapentin. How much does your pup weigh? In larger dogs the doses are often given every 8 hours, even sometimes every six. And rather giving the Amanditine at the same time, you might want to give that in between the doses. Is the CBD prescribed by the vet? Jerry just completed a certification on knowing the best Friday to use, so she'll pop in later on that.
And yes, often you will see some muscle twitching at the amputation area. Nothing to be concerned about, it's just nerves and muscles adjusting to the missing limb.You can try to gently, very very gently, give a very light massage around the incision area up towards his back and spine.
You want to make sure that his activity is a bare minimum at this point. He needs to go out for short Beast potty breaks and then back in for rest and more rest. No, you don't want him so drugged that he can barely hold his head up, but you do want to make sure the pain is handled. The fact that he does seem to be worse at night and then worse in the morning makes me think the Gabapentin is spread out too far apart.
Back later and others will certainly be here to chime in, but I just wanted to address my thoughts on the pain med.
Hugs
Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
Is Sally a genius or what? I am going to echo her thoughts. I'll sum mine up for you here:
- Yes, this sounds like pain signals .
- I do agree the Gabapentin can probably be every 8 hours. His pain meds are not excessive at all. This is major surgery and lots of nerves get cut. Plus, it's exhausting to learn to move in different ways, so that adds to the pain and tiredness. His body will get used to it (in a good way) and it shouldn't make him so stored. So ask your vet about breaking up the RX 8 hours apart, which is what many people do to give more consistent relief.
- Amantadine is a great pain medication but it can make dogs sleepy. I always gave it to our Wyatt Ray at night (he needed more meds as he entered his last few years with us). By morning, he was ready to go.
- Regarding the CBD. Can I ask, what product are you giving him? How much and how often? I ask because there are a lot of garbage products out there, which don't deliver as promised. It's why I became a Veterinary Cannabis Guide. If you'd like feedback on the product let me know.
And yep, everything you are going through is totally normal. Most people need a week or so to get their dog's pain meds dialed in. Work with your vet and you'll get it figured out. You are not doing anything wrong I promise. There's a huge learning curve for all of us.
I think that the Iowa State clinical trial is fantastic. Let us know if you decided to do it.
Keep us posted on Beast's recovery OK?
Thank you all so much for hearing me, caring, and responding to my concerns. Tripawds group meet so much to me! Just a club I think none of us ever thought we'd be joining. Happy to have you all here with me and not feeling alone as I had 2 weeks ago. So thank you all.
So Beast is a healthy amazing 9 year old Rottweiler. He weighed 105 pre surgery, and now with a lost rear right leg he is 92 lbs. Beast eats only organic fruits and vegetables, no kibble, cooked meat in the crockpot, has bone broth once a week, gets sour kraut on his food 2 times a week for stomach micro biome health, takes Rose Hip Vital (for hip, bone, joint health) 5 Defenders Turkey tail mushroom (for immune support) and before surgery he got Budda Paste (tumeric, black pepper, and coconut oil mix) for anti inflammatory properties. And then in Jan he went outside and fell on Iowa's first snow fall, came limping.
And as most of you experienced, some limps are injuries, some are cancer. I did many appts being told it was back muscle spasms (give him and anti- inflammatory) Its his degenerative hips( give him gabapentin) Couldn't heal the limp. Was absolutely sure it was the knee as he was toe touching when he walked and sat side ways when he sat. (got x-rays in Feb, showed nothing) took him to physical therapy, limp never got better. I was certain its was a CCL tear and he needed surgery. Got second set of X-rays in late Feb. (something looked like a small lesion on bone) I thought it had to be an osteophyte. I mean, he fell! He had an injury to his knee, there was no swelling, blood work was great, healthy dog. So I did all the natural pathic remedies for him till I could get a consultation for a TPLO. Swimming therapy, massage, reiki, acupunture and chiropractic care. He is still limping, no meds. And now he has formed what I thought was a medial buttress.
Took Beast for a TPLO consult, doctor did his own x-rays. There was no denying it. There was a cancer spreading on Beast's leg. At this point it was 5/16/22. 4 and a half months since his limp! and 3 and a half since his x-ray. And here is still was healthy, limping, but now what. So 2 weeks later he started showing pain. Pain at night. I added carprofen and Charlottes Web Full Spectrum Hemp Extract 17mg 2 x daily to his meals. But It got to be too much as I noticed he was using the leg only 10% of the time. He had his leg amputated 6/15/22. His blood work and chest x rays still great! He is still healthy, no lymph node swelling. I changed his diet to raw and organic vegatables.
Beast takes amantadine 100mg (2am/2pm) Gabapentin 400 mg (5am/5pm) Carprofen (5am/5pm) CBD oil (2am/2pm)
I still think his pain is not under control as you all have stated. He is very tired, yet still aggitated and in pain, and doppie. I will talk with the vet tomorrow when he get his stitches out about changing things around.
I appreciate any and all in put. I still cant swallow this. What is happening! My beautiful boy.
Aww we are glad you found us too. Yes this is the club nopawdy ever wants to join! But we are so glad you found us. You've traveled a long road to get here, and did everything right to help him avoid cancer. I'm sorry that it happened. It's so frustrating. The delay in the diagnosis isn't uncommon, it happens a lot unfortunately. But now that you've taken action, you can move forward and help him live his best life on 3. He will get there!
His Amantadine is a standard dosage. Gabapentin is low for a dog his size. Some larger dogs get up to 600 mg 3x daily. Our Wyatt Ray took 400mg 3x daily for maintenance when he was a senior. So please call your vet today, don't wait until the appointment, and ask for 100 mg Gabapentin capsules to step up his dosage. That should help. His dopiness may go away even though it's a higher dosage, because he won't be feeling so crappy. It could make him sleepy, but I'm going to be the pain relief is a greater benefit that will help his personality shine through.
Keep us posted OK?
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