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To chemo or not to chemo...
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Member Since:
10 September 2016
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10 September 2016 - 12:29 pm
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Hi all, new here, but long time reader. I am looking for advice on chemo treatment for my boy, Maverick. He is a 9 year old Great Dane.

He presented with a lump on his front right leg in Aug of 2015. It wasn't really bothering him, but we had it looked at and of course were told it was likely osteosarcoma. We were told about chemo, amputation, the works. But the vets (we went for multiple opinions) all said the same. Even with those aggressive treatments the stats say he'll be lucky to have 6 months. Due to his age and size and the fact that he wasn't experiencing any pain from the leg, we decided to take a more palliative approach.

We found a great holistic vet who treated with supplements and herbs. We adjusted his diet and the results were amazing. The tumor on his leg shrunk, no pain, xrays clear, nothing in lymph nodes and we had surpassed the 6 month mark even without the chemo/amputation treatment. Maverick was still his same old happy self. But in June of this year, the size of the tumor increased and it was causing a lot of discomfort. The leg was still there, but Maverick wasn't walking on it at all. We could see his mood decreasing and figured it was time to begin a pain management program. We went off to the vet and did the exam, xrays, etc. Again... all was clear! It was just this stupid leg. By now, even the vet was questioning whether is was osteo because Maverick just wasn't falling under the usual statistics.

After much debate, we decided to go through with the amputation. This boy still had life in him, he just wanted to be rid of the pain - who wouldn't!? We were referred to an oncologist and a surgeon and the plan was surgery and then 4-6 chemo sessions post op as a "just in case". Maverick had the surgery July 5 and we could not have asked for a better recovery. He was "running" in the back yard during the first week. Walked to the park and back and the pet store and back in week two. By week three, off all pain meds, clear headed, and swimming laps at the hydrotherapy pool we took him to for strength training - this is a dog who has never even been swimming before.

The leg was sent off for biopsy and it was confirmed that it's osteosarcoma. Maverick just isn't one who supports the documented statistics. He's always been stubborn. We are now over 1 year past the initial diagnosis in which we didn't even think Maverick would still be with us. The leg is gone, no one misses it, and his lungs, lymph nodes and blood work are all clear. He has completed one chemo treatment and was lucky enough to have zero side effects. I guess what I'm wondering is, how many of you would continue on? I'm concerned about filling my boy with chemicals when we had such success with more natural remedies before. We have spoken to the vets, the oncologist, the surgeon. But, all they can do to direct us is tell us what the... you guessed it... statistics show. I understand this is what they work off, but it's pretty clear that Maverick has already blown their stats out of the water. I have always been hesitant with the chemo, but the surgeon wouldn't agree to the surgery until we agreed we would follow up with chemo.

Maverick is supposed to go for his second treatment on Tuesday, and I have been losing sleep over whether to keep up with it. If anyone here could chime in, it would be greatly appreciated! 

Michigan
Member Since:
2 April 2013
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10 September 2016 - 2:47 pm
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First of all, congratulations on blowing away the statistics! clapWe love success stories around here!

No one can tell you what the right decision is for YOUR dog.  Only you know what is right for you and Maverick.  The surgery removes the tumor, the main source of the pain & the cancer.  However, there are likely still microscopic cancer cells floating around in his body someplace.  So, hence the chemo.  To kill off all those stupid little cells.  That being said, there are plenty of success stories on here of dogs  & cats who never had even 1 dose of chemo.  And there are just as many stories of pets who had chemo and didn't make it as long as predicted.  Statistics are just that - some do better and some don't.  Of course we all want ours to be the one who blows those numbers right out of the water.  The oncologist can't hold you to anything - if you're not comfortable with the chemo, if you can't afford it, or if Maverick doesn't tolerate it - then you can stop it at any point.  You are not committed to anything.  Some do the chemo because they want to feel that they did everything they could to ensure the best odds.  Some don't do it because they can't afford it, or because their pet just doesn't tolerate it.  Whatever the reason, it's yours to make.

Donna

Donna, Glenn & Murphy 

Murphy had his right front leg amputated due to histiocytic sarcoma at 7 years old. He survived 4 years, 2 months & 1 week, only to be taken by hemangiosarcoma at 11 1/2 years 6/12/17  
Read about Murphy's Life on Three Legs

Donna.png



Member Since:
21 May 2016
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10 September 2016 - 4:09 pm
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Hi Maverick and familyheart

Wow, how marvellous to hear 1 year went by and Maverick is still full of beans clap

Eurydice is also a Great Dane, she is 5 and lost her right front leg to osteosarcoma a little over 4 months ago.

We went for 6 sessions of carboplatin and she had zero side effects.

She will start metronomic therapy (low daily dose of chemo combined with antibiotic and anti inflammatory) in a couple of weeks.

I really appreciate the fact you went for a holistic approach and hey! it worked !!!

How to deal with this damn disease is incredibly personal and there are simply no guarantees no matter what we choose to do.

I think in the end we have to do what feels right for us and our furry babies.

I decided to take the "heavy artillery" approach as osteosarcoma is very aggressive but always kept in my mind if she didn't tolerate it or if it was not helping I would stop. 

I know it is awful to think we are pumping tons of chemicals into our babies bodies ... but if we believe statistics to some extent (even despite the fact they are worth what they are worth) it is our best shot to slow the progression of the disease. 

Just as a side comment, I share your views on medications and always avoided it as much as possible throughout my girl's life. 

But, of course, this is a totally different ball game ugh

No matter what your decision is, we are all here for you so please do keep us updated 

Sending you a big hug and cuddles to your gorgeous boy heart

Eurydice 77kg/170lb Great Dane limping end of April 2016, amputation (right front leg/osteosarcoma) 4 May 2016 6 courses of carboplatin followed by metronomic therapy, lung mets found 30 Nov 2016. 3 courses of doxorubicin, PET scan 26 Jan 2017 showed more mets so stopped chemo. Holistic route April 2017. Lung X-ray 5 May 2017 showed several tennis ball size mets, started cortisone and diuretics. Miss Cow earned her XXL silver wings 12 June 2017, 13 months and 1 week after amputation and 6 1/2 months after lung mets, she was the goofiest dawg ever and is now happily flying from cloud to cloud woof woofing away :-) 

Durham, NC
Member Since:
16 September 2015
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10 September 2016 - 6:51 pm
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Way to go, Maverick!

It's a tough call, isn't it? All I can do is share Izzy's story. She is just about 13 now, American Bulldog and has been my lil "hopper" for the past year. She broke her leg in August 2015, though I didn't realize it was broken at first. She limped for a week and got better then started limping again. My sweet girl suffered with a broken front leg for two weeks before I figured it out. We fretted about what to do so it was probably at least another two weeks before she went in for her amputation. Tests confirmed what her vet feared and had already diagnosed - Osteo. 

I was told she had about 4 months if I didn't do chemo, 8 with. We decided against the chemo and she's with me today, just 8 days shy of her 1 year ampuversary. Now, I will admit that in June, we did start palladia for a mast cell tumor on one of her hind feet. She's done beautifully on it but is having knee trouble, so facing another operation. It isn't related to the OSA and the oncologist says that I don't need to worry about her healing from surgery based on her history. Lungs remain clear and, while Palladia has shown some efficacy in treating lung mets, she's never shown any (and we've taken chest films twice in the past year as well as at the time of diagnosis).

You know your baby better than anyone - but my experience with chemo has been "pawsitive". Izzy is still her sweet, silly self and I'm so so glad to still have her around.

Keep us posted!

Momma to the world's most beautiful American Bulldog, Izzy!! Lost her front leg to OSA 9/18/15. Diagnosed w MCT in June 2016. Celebrated her 1 year ampuversary with knee surgery on 9/18/16! MCT recurrence in Dec 2016. Happy & hungry til nearly 14, earning her wings on 7/31/17.

Virginia







Member Since:
22 February 2013
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10 September 2016 - 8:05 pm
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Thank you so much for sharing your journey so far with the MAGNIFICENT MAVERICK!!! This is inspirational on so many levels!! Maverick truly is NOT a statistic and does NKT have a timeframe stamped anywhere on his it!

You've gotten great I sight from everyone. As you can see, it is an individual and perso al chpice. Absolutely no right or wro g.

For the most part and from what we've seen here, chemo can basically be a crap shoot. I kmkw that's not any help! I did four rounds of Carboplatin for my Happy Hannah. She sailed through each treatment and four was what her Onco suggested. My Happy Hannah and I got the most glorious extended time of ine year and two months. Was it because of the chemo? I nave nooo idea. And I mean that! We've seen some here not even able to finish their rou ds before this piece of crap disease takes over. We've seen some dogs live for years without chemo...And some just months. So yes, it's a crap shoot!

So much kf the decision is about being comfortable with whichever route you go and never looki g back! You clearly are apprehensive about this for some "inner voice" reason.. Sometimes it's about following your gut and that's always the right answer! This journey is always about quality. Again, you know your Maverick best

I hope I'm not "crossing the line"...but I am absolutely APPALLED and SHOCKED that the Surgeon would not perform the amputation unless you followed up with chemo! ABSOLUTELY APPALLED! I'm sure the "requirement" was well intended, but completely out of line!

I'm also a little curious as to when the first chemo was given. Generally, certainly not always, it's given two to three weeks after surgery. Again, just generally. certainly there a exceptions for verious reasons.

Stay connected! We would LOVE to see poctures of your MAGNIFICENT .MAVERICK!! Sounds like the name fits him perfectly!!

(((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

Member Since:
15 July 2016
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11 September 2016 - 3:45 pm
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We're too new to this business for us to contribute to stats.

Milo is an Australian Labradoodle that just turned 10 last week.  He had his front left leg amputated on July 28 (6 weeks ago).  He was accepted into a clinical trial at Tufts and was part of the "control group", which meant he would receive Carboplatin chemo.  He was only the 3rd dog to make it through all the pre-amp tests at Tufts since the trial began in December.  They are picky and want dogs that are likely to survive long enough to get decent results.  To get into the trial he needed clear lungs, liver, spleen, and lymph -- he passed all of those!  He also needed good liver enzymes and energy and a few other things.

Well, two weeks after surgery, they got the full pathology results and he has a very rare form of osteosarcoma (Giant Cell-Rich) which is very aggressive.  It's only been documented in dogs a few times, probably because it is so aggressive that the dogs rarely get to the level of pathology we did.  There was something seen on his scapula which might have been a lesion (scapula was part of amputation), and he was running a fever.  They booted him from the trial.   

So while we had already decided on chemo, getting booted from the trial put us in the position to reconsider.  We had watched Milo respond poorly to the NSAID Metacam, and possibly a bad reaction to Tramadol.  We also saw him starting to get back to his old self with nothing more than improved food, K9 Immunity , and a handful of other things.  We decided that we didn't want to risk him having a bad reaction to chemo -- even if it was just for a few days every few weeks.  With such a rare form of cancer, there's no info on how it reacts to chemo, but likely the same as most osteos.  We decided we'd rather have 1-2 months of a happy, healthy dog than 4 months on a roller coaster.  Those extra months would have been for us, not for him.

Anyway, that's our thought process.  Milo is doing great so far.  He's happy, healthy, active, eating well.  The only down days he has are when he gets tight or sore from his new "hopping" stride.  The stress level in our family is lower than it would have been with chemo.  It's a good balance for us, and we're going to enjoy whatever time we have, and will not look back with the regret of "what if we had tried to chemo...."

Peace,

-Jenifer & Milo

Virginia







Member Since:
22 February 2013
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11 September 2016 - 3:52 pm
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Good insight Jenifer! You know l your Milo best and you are comfortable with the path you're on as id Milo...............and that's what it's all about!

Hugs!

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

On The Road


Member Since:
24 September 2009
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11 September 2016 - 4:09 pm
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mavsmom said
I am looking for advice on chemo treatment...

Don't miss these very popular topics filled with feedback from many members!

Regrets about Chemotherapy

Costs of Amputation and Chemotherapy for Dogs: What Did You Pay?

You'll find more helpful articles in the Tripawds News blog :

The Chemotherapy Decision: Joys and Regrets

tripawds.com/tag/chemotherapy/

Use the Advanced Search above to refine your search results with specific phrases here in the forums, and you're sure to find more helpful feedback.  You can also search all blogs here .

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

Member Since:
17 July 2016
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12 September 2016 - 5:31 pm
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Hi 

I tried chemo for Holly and she had a bad reaction to it

i wouldn't do chemo again for a dog or myself I believe it kills the dogs immunity as it does in people

its fantastic that you've had such great results using natural and amputation more recently. A holistic vet I knew recommended sheep sorrel combination - Google Dr Clare Middle 

anyway all the best and good luck with your fur kid

cheers

Lisa 

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