Caring for a Three Legged Dog or Cat
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So, Sam the border collie has osteosarcoma in his left shoulder. It's getting easier to say it. We now have an appointment with an oncology specialist next Thursday. I asked what treatments they offer as I wanted to know about bisphosphonate but the receptionist didn't know and said I'll discuss it when I go in.
I've been trying to find out about the immunotherapy vaccine treatment but it doesn't appear to be available in the UK.
So out of radiotherapy, bisphosphonates and chemotherapy, which do people feel is the best balance between quality and length of life?
How many people have tried a wheelchair where amputation isn't an option? Sam can't put weight on his left front leg so suddenly can't walk. Although today we took him out for a short plod and planned to put him in a stroller that I've borrowed. He amazed us all by actually walking for about 15 mins with hardly a limp! It was amazing to watch. I guess they have good days and this is one? I must keep a note of when he has his medication and how he's doing at various points in the day.
Finally, I've got him on medicinal mushroom extract, cbd oil and golden paste (turmeric and ginger). I'm going to give him the golden paste in kefir if I can get some grains. I've also got garlic fermented in honey that I will give a little, plus some veg soup which he loves. Any other suggestions? Maybe a bone broth. Luckily he has a great appetite!
Great questions!
So out of radiotherapy, bisphosphonates and chemotherapy, which do people feel is the best balance between quality and length of life?
Boy, that's really a toss up, and honestly it depends on the dog.
Radiotherapy is for palliative care if you opt out of amputation. Usually it's done in combo with bisphosphonate treatment. See Hazel's story for one example.
Statistically, dogs live longer after amputation AND chemo. But the reality is we see it go all sorts of directions here. Some dogs do great with chemo and outlive their prognosis, some have mild side effects (Rarely requiring hospitalisation), and some don't live up to the prognosis. And some who don't have any of these treatments will defy all odds and live a long time! Our Jerry lived two more years without anything extra but K9 Immunity and metronomic chemotherapy .
How many people have tried a wheelchair where amputation isn’t an option?
I can't think of one who has, even those who have undergone palliative care like Hazel. The pain of osteosarcoma is so severe, that you really want to treat it ASAP. Wheelchairs take time, and it's not really all that practical to consider in a situation like this. For example, some dogs need longer to train in using a wheelchair , and we don't recommend buying one until the dog is evaluated by a rehab therapist. Also, wheelchair use is not something a dog does all day, they're really for short increments. So the rest of the time, a dog is moving about on their own. And the risk of traumatic pathologic fracture is so high with osteosarcoma that you really don't want to allow movement to go on very long. I hope that makes sense.
Any other suggestions? Maybe a bone broth. Luckily he has a great appetite!
You've got an eye on good food and supplements, that's great. Just FYI, most oncologists will want you to stop supplements during chemo, to minimize the odds of any side effects/GI issues. Meanwhile The Dog Cancer Survival Guide is a great place to also research, they've got lots of tips in that awesome book. Also check out the Tripawds Nutrition blog and you may want to post this question our eating healthy topic so more folks will see it, and you can keep this discussion on track.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Evening all. We're waiting for our oncology appointment on Thursday and it's been the longest week. I have no idea what treatments they can offer as the receptionist said I'd discuss that when I go in, and also that they can give him a treatment on the day following examination. I would've liked to know if they offer bisphisphonates or is it going to be about chemo or radiation etc, but I will have to wait and decide on the day.
Meanwhile Sam is still here, with good energy which I put down to the medicinal mushroom blend (its had the same effect on me). So much so, in the morning we have a little walk and when I say, let's go back and have dinner, he tries to speed up to get home like he used to. Sadly his limp is so bad, he just hobbles.
His limp hasn't got better or worse despite the meds. He's now on Onsior once a day, Amantadine once a day, Gabapentin x3 and paracetamol 250mg x3. I also give him cbd/cbg oil twice a day, still experimenting with the dose. The other day I miscalculated the no. of drops and gave him too much. He walked without a limp! Maybe I should keep him at a higher dose?!
The vet also gave him tramadol but I haven't given that to Sam yet. I read the Dr Avery post and I'm also uncomfortable with the amount of drugs he's having and is it making any difference? Should the limp get better, in other words is he limping because of pain or because he can't physically put weight on his leg?
This is the hardest thing. How much pain is he in? He's a Collie and doesn't show pain. Sometimes I see it, like if he pants after a short walk. His nose has been dripping with lots of clear mucus too, I wondered if that was related to pain. The last 2 days I've noticed his breathing is faster than usual, even when he's asleep. I'm afraid that's his lungs. This morning I was giving him his belly scratch and he was relaxed, eyes closing, then he would open his eyes and look into the distance, his eyes would open wide like when you're scared of something. I thought maybe he would have a stroke or something. I don't have any idea how long we have, that's so hard. How far down the road are we? Hopefully we'll get some answers on Thursday.
Sorry for the long post, just trying to process everything. I know you all understand..
Process as much as you want, we totally understand. I know Thursday feels like years away. Your attitude is strong and that will carry you far, keep it up!
It's likely that the panting and spaciness are related to pain. If a dog or a person is limping and they can't put weight on the leg, that's because it hurts. It does sound like your vet is up on pain management , which is good. Unfortunately with pain like this from bone cancer, not even the strongest meds can help a whole lot.
Interesting about the CBD you gave him. Do you know if there is any THC in it? If so that could have been why he stopped limping for a bit (THC is a molecule in cannabis that makes people and pets stoned).
I hope he continues to be OK this week. Keep those walks to a bare minimum, you don't want him to fracture. You are doing great, hang in there!
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
The uncertainty and unanswered questions can make is all nits on this journey, You are doing a GREAT job of developing a program of pain management , supplements and nutrition as a path forward while waiting for the consult.
Hard to isolate what may or may not be helpful when it comes to the meds he's on, plus the CBD. Had to chuckle a little vit about the way he stared off into the distance when uou were scratchinq¹g his belly. Maybe the CBD???.
Has to be frustrating to ve told Sam can have a "tteatment" on Thirsday, but you aren't told what it would be! Nope, not helpful at all!
Even if Sam is in pain , it doesn't seem to be at a level that prevents Sam from being Sam. Sam. Continue to follow his lead, and right now he's showing you he's hanging in! No one knows how much time any of us have. What we do know is, when it comes to our dogs it's not anything they ever think about! Doesn't cross there minds at all. They flow effortlessly from one moment to the next, never staying stuck in the past and never focused on the future. They are fully present in the moment. He's not letting this crap disease rob him of his time with you, and dont you let it interfere with your time with him. Sam is such a good teacher ♥️
Oh, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if his drippy nose is allergy related ,or a gazzill other things that aren't serious at all.
Hugs
Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
Meant to ask, has Sam been evaluated by a Certified Orthopedic Surgeon?? You mayn have already addressed that, couldn't remember.
But at this point the Acupuncturist and regular Vet have said he is not a candidate, is that eight?? And although they think age is an issue, it's also because he has bad arthritis and fixed spine/vertebra, is that right?
When you say he "hobbles", is he holding his front leg up, or still trying to use it? What does his back end/rear leg look like? Does it look like he's struggling from the rear too? Sorry, not sure my question makes sense.
Sorry, too many questions😱
(((((((((Hugs))))))))))
Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
He hasn't been assessed by a surgeon. I'm hoping the oncologist will do that tomorrow but maybe I'm unclear what they actually offer. It's a a vetinary hospital linked to a big university so hoping someone there can help us. But time is passing!
The regular vet didn't really offer much hope or options at all. He just did it Sam were his, he wouldn't put him through any interventions. Good job we don't all think like that!
The acupuncture vet knows Sam well and has been treating his arthritis. He lost muscle on his back legs due to an injury a couple of years ago which aggravated the arthritis. But he'd been having weekly hydrotherapy up until 6 weeks ago to build his back leg strength and it was really working!
The ct scan mentioned spondylosis in a couple of vertebra.
His limp is not consistent. Mostly in the last week or so, he holds his foot off the ground and you can see he doesn't want to use it, but has to. When I say hobbles, he walks on the leg rather than trying to hop with it but has to move his head up and down in a very exaggerated movement to compensate. I'll see if I can upload a video.
His back legs are managing fine (compared to the front!). When he comes into the front door, over a small sill, he more or less only uses his good front leg and his back legs have to work really hard to get him over the step.. but they do it. He's not collapsing on his back end or anything like that.
But yeah, sometimes he hardly limps at all! It's getting rarer but today I got some doggy friends and their owners to come over to see him. He was walking around on grass and you'd hardly know there was anything wrong with him. Then next morning, he can barely walk 3 steps and I have to carry him out to do a poo.
Maybe it's about timing of his meds. I've started keeping a note of what I've given when, as sometimes it's a bit random depending what treats I think I can hide what in!
I've definitely started to open up to the idea of amputation. But preparing for the worst, that he's not a good candidate for some reason. Maybe it's well into his lungs - we didn't do an xray as it needs a general anaesthetic and I want to limit that to if he absolutely needs one.
This was just over a week ago and I'd say is about 7/10 in terms of how bad the limping can be: https://photos......fHCyYtaUF8
This is 3 days later, much better (for no obvious reason) https://photos......HwahDddcu8
And just for fun, here is Sam with his new puzzle toy which he totally worked out in about 5 mins flat! https://photos......HArtHsk5a7
** edit, not sure if those links will work so have tried in an album: https://photos......ZMwyhYRrVA
OMD!!! I'm so in love with this handsome, smart, sweet and gentle boy! Melting my heart over here♥️
The videos gave a good comparison. Good job. As you said, the difference may simply be a matter of consistency in pain meds, as well as overdo 9t when he does feel frisky and perky.
It may be that the Clinic you are going to tomorrow has an Orthopedic Surgeon or that's the Onco's specialty too. I k ow a lot of time is passing, but I think the evaluation by the Specialist will really help with uour decision. It may be that it eill validate what the Acupuncturist and your Vet say......OR......it may be that Sam IS a good candidate.
You are doing EVER possible for your sweet Sam! Nothing is clear cut on this journey, and when you throw in extra "challenges", it just makes every decision seem more complicated AND more stressful!
The bottom line is you are making a decision out of love and that is ALWAYS the right decision. Sam KNOWS you love him and AL2AYS have his best interest at heart. Sometimes it just boils down to how you feel in uour "gut". What you think Sam would want. You know your boy best.
I'll add one more thing. While the video shows some "limp", FWIW, I've seen it a lot worse. One thing I noticed though......or thought I noticed.....it seems his left rear leg is "maybe" a little stiff?? Could be the arthritis, but barely noticeable....or maybe my imagination!
Look forward to your update tomorrow.
Extra hugs
Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!
PS.....Enjoyed seeing the videos of Sam. And got a special chuckle out of how smart he is figuring out the puzzle. Love this guy!♥️
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
Awww I loved seeing your sweet boy! Thanks for sharing the videos. He's adorable! And I love that you have him doing brain games too. Yep, those clips show that he's got something painful going on and hopefully you will get concrete answers and a plan tomorrow. Please keep us posted.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Evening all. So today was our oncology appointment at the Queens Vetinary Hospital in Cambridge and we met our consultant who was really nice, although Sam was highly suspicious. We talked for ages about the condition, Sam's history and the options. Amputation obviously, chemo, radiotherapy. I asked about bisphosphonates (so glad I'd done my research on here and elsewhere!) and he said he wasn't really keen as he hadn't seen much success with the drug.
He had Sam walk around briefly and said his initial thought was that amputation would not be good for him as he was quite stiff on his back end. I had begun to pin quite a lot of hope on amputation and felt a little defensive. I said that the morning was his worst time, he'd been in the car for 1.5 hours and hadn't had any meds (as he wasn't to have breakfast in case they would do a treatment there and then). Anyway the consultant picked up on how I was feeling and said he'd take Sam for an examination with his boss, a radiographer and an orthopedic surgeon. We weren't allowed in the building due to Covid restrictions but I was pleased that he was going to consult with others and not be fixed in his view.
When he came back he was very sensitive and said that they all agreed Sam might not cope with life on three legs, given his stiff back end and the fact he was taking a lot of weight on his good front leg in order to compensate for his back legs as well as his bad leg. The acupuncture vet had noted this before as well - she thought he'd lost lots of muscle in his back legs due to not using them properly because of the arthritis pain.
So amputation is off the table and to be honest, I'm comfortable with that as I was having a real conflict with hanging onto that as the best thing for getting rid of the pain, but as I know you all know, the idea of amputation is a massive thing to get your head around and all the questions, is it the right thing to do etc. I do feel that the vets and even the specialist consultants see it from a medical point of view - of course - whereas all you guys out there have lived and breathed it, you've seen your dogs at their best and their worst following amputation, and I think vets can't necessarily appreciate this. But having said that, he said his primary aim is what is best for Sam and I really felt he meant that.
Anyway the combined view of the consultant and his colleagues was that we should try radiotherapy - 2 sessions starting on Monday - which should give good results for pain relief and really help the lameness. The thought that Sam could enjoy a walk again makes me so emotional. I understand it's palliative so we're just buying time for cuddles and fun and I'm fine with that. Sam's had a good life since we rescued him as a 3 year old and it's going to get even better. After 2 sessions we'll see how he is and the consultant said we should then look at bisphosphonates after all, so perhaps his colleagues persuaded him. If/when the lameness and pain start to return, we can do another 2 radiotherapy sessions. We decided not to do a chest xray at this point as chemo and radiotherapy together are not advised (for Sam, at least) so, even if we see he has nodules in his lungs, we're not going to give him chemo to treat them. We might change our mind later and that's what I feel most reassured about - that we're now on a journey with this consultant whom me and my husband trust and feel comfortable with him and it's all about what's best for Sam.
Once again, I'm so grateful for the support of this forum. For the deeply kind comments and advice for Sam and I and for all those who have posted their own stories and poured out their feelings. I literally feel that I'm not in this alone and it's so good to know. I was also kind of smug to know when the consultant referred to doing an FNA, that I knew he meant fine needle aspirate 🙂
I'll update more following the treatment next week. Sam's friend the acupuncture vet is coming over next Friday to give him some love and relief too <3
This is such a loving post on so many levels. We very much appreciate how you have processed the situation and shared those processes and feelings and emotions s with us. They are raw and honest and so very well thought out. We can all take a lesson from you and Sam on the courage it took to stay focused on what's best for Sam
The assessments that were shared with you by Sam's "medical team" really made sense. They were able to sort of "project into the future" what the drawbacks would be for Sam on three. The observations about the stiffness, the "good front leg" overcompensating for the rear end weakness, etc.
I love that the first Consult Bet actully listened" to you and was very tuned into your commitment to do what's best for Sam. You made it plain that at the same time you were willing to try everything possible to keep him around for more cuddling and loving, And of course Sam probably was more stiff than usual at first because of the carride etc. And he LISTENED to that explanation and then consulted with others to validate his assessment t...or not. So glad an Orthopedic guy was involved too.
I can "hear" the relief in your voice that you are comfortable with this team and comfortable with this path forward. And absolutely the path forward sounds like a good one that has lots of pawsitive qualities!! This IS the right path for Sam. FWIW, it really resonates with me too for you and Sam. You ARE making the right dec for Sam♥️
We've seen "pallatuve care" work wonders for dogs' wellbeing and quality. And having a a good quality life can indeed help extend life!!
Thank you so much, so very much, for continuing to share Sam's journey with us. We'll definitely be cheering for him!!
And abso, YOU ARE NOT ALONE!!! We are all your family now and Sam's too!💖
Hugs
Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
I also hear the relieved tone in your voice, and I'm guessing your husband and even Sam feel it too! And you know what? That is the BEST medicine! Amputation isn't always the answer and that's OK. We are still here to support you so please keep us in the loop. It's always interesting and so helpful to know what alternatives are prescribed for animals who are not candidates, so anytime you feel like sharing we will be here ready to learn.
Sam is also getting a fantastic level of care at the Queen's hospital, you can feel very, very good about that. We are sending lots of love that the treatments prescribed will give him an excellent quality of life for a very long time! Keep us posted and give him extra belly rubs for us.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Evening all. I thought I would post an update as Sam had his first of two radiotherapy sessions on Monday this week. The appointment couldn't come quickly enough, I just really wanted to get on and DO something about this horrible disease. Weirdly, in the week or so leading up to the appointment, Sam's limping had started to get better??! He was still bad in the morning but, by the afternoon, sometimes you could hardly tell he was limping. Other days it would be worse. Maybe that's the progression of the disease, or maybe the timing of his meds. I like to think the medicinal mushrooms were helping 😉
Anyway he was in just 30 mins for his radiotherapy and came out staggering around from the GA. The oncologist said he may be worse for a couple of days afterwards before he started to get better. By the time we got home 2 hours later, Sam was much better. I mean, still limping but not badly and recovered from the GA really well. By the next day, Sam wanted to walk! We went to our favourite park which is just 5 mins away but which may as well have been 20 miles away for the last month as there was no way he could've made it there. But this time, we had a slow and steady walk and Sam's tail was waving and he was so happy to be there, as was I 🙂
Next day, we went to another favourite local park 5 mins away but up a hill. We took it very steady and he was tired when we got there so we had a sit down and chill out before steadily walking back. In hindsight it was probably a bit much as he limped a bit later on, so I have to remember he's had very little exercise for over a month and we need to take it steady.
But, so far so good. Today his acupuncture vet came out to give him some treatment. His back and rear legs are really stiff, as is his good front leg which is taking all the strain. She reminded me that his situation is not good but if he's not in pain right now then that's all that matters. In a strange way it's been a gift in that it's made us appreciate what a great dog Sam is and how much we love him. I am so grateful for the chance to let Sam enjoy every day that he's with us.
Love to everyone who is going or has gone through this emotional rollercoaster
Thank you soooo much for taking time to give us such a detailed update. Sam is teaching us a lot on so any levels. Not only about his treatment, but about the power of each dog's individual will😎
Just shaking off GA so quickly astounded me. Then to know how happy and how good his mobility is jist co firms you are on the eight path!
Continue to keep his walks short and lots of rest inbetween. It doesn't surprise me at all that he was a bit more "limpy" after his fun adventures. I know being at two of his favorite places did you voth a lot of food! Love the visual of his "tail waving"😎 Videos!! We need videos!
In a strange way it’s been a gift in that it’s made us appreciate what a great dog Sam is and how much we love him. I am so grateful for the chance to let Sam enjoy every day that he’s with us.
Beautifully said. And the other "silver lining" is that Sam doesn't see this as a "bad' thing. He thinks all this over the top loving and spoiling is the best thing evvver!!!
Uou are doing an exquisite job of car for your sweet Sam♥️
Hugs
Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
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