Caring for a Three Legged Dog or Cat
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Hi, need some advice badly. Blumi, 3 yr old black lab X had osteosarcoma, and we amputated limb in early June. she then had 4 rounds of carboplatin, which she tolerated very well. She is doing fabulously, and most people need a second look to see that she is actually missing a leg.
Oncologist is NOT seeing metastasis anywhere, but has recommended metronomic chemo with oral cyclophosphamide and daily metacam. I worry about all the possible side effects, including cystitis. Apparently, the drugs themselves are metabolized into a carcinogen in the body, which also makes me wonder whether I might in fact be giving cancer to my now-healthy dog!!
Blumi is currently getting fish oil, mushroom caplets, milk thistle extract, cottage cheese, kale supplements on a daily basis. She looks so happy and healthy! What do I do? Any advice welcome.
ilse
WELL, first of all CONGRATULATIMS to Blumi for continuing to have such a fine recovery!
This ks sooooo hard and, as you now, the decision can only be made bynyou! Ugh! Nate that part..Yo will probabyhere from Katy and Jackson.....maybe Michelle and Sassy too. They both did metronomics and both switched from Cytoxan (that's short for the drug you spelled out above) t Lukeran (another metronomic chemo pill). Jackson had cycstitis as a reult. Anyway, they'll give you some great information.
If you search cytoxan and lukeran, you'll find some great posts...search metronomics too.
Hapy Hannah is now celebrating her eight month ampuversary (and cntinuig forward...knocking on wood over here!). She did four rounds of carboplatin also. Had I not brought up metronomics to the Onco. it never would have been discussed.. Anyway, after many delays due to all sorts of things, I fi ally decided to start Hapoh Hannah on Cytoxan and Piroxicam. After two weeks, her first urinalysis showed bacteria i her urine.....two weeks of antibiotics.....then a vladder tap.....gosh, i can't even remember what all was involved.....apparantly it wasn't "cystitis, but rather a urinary infection. Urelated to Cytoxa.
Anyway, I decided no to the Cytoxan and I was going to pursue Luekeran.....and have ot as of yet. I "fired" our Onco and have been searching for aother ne. Hard to f d in this area.
We'll ave to wait to hear from Katy/Jackson, but it seems to me Lukeran required blood work every mnth, among other things. Anyway, I'm just ot sure want to contnje utting her through more tests.
I know I'm ot being mush help here! Guess just trying to let you kow it's really about you knowing your dog and what he would want you to do!
By the way, the supplements sound great. Keep on tjat plan!
Would LOVE to see somepics of your pup!! There are links on here that will show younhow to do that.
Please keep us posted and we would love hearing more about your wnderful Blumi!
Take care and know that you are not alonen this journey, okay?
(((((((((hugs to you both)))))))))
Sally and Happy Hannah
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
Speaking of Leukeran: I can't find any data on it. It seems it is not really known if it works metronomically, and what the appropriated dosage would be. Anyone know more?
Thanks
ilse
Hi Ilse. You will get more updated stories from other members, mine is going on 4 years old. My dog Max did 6 rounds of carbo in 2009. Then we started metronimics with cytoxan. We were also told about cystitis. Max was also prescribed something called Lasix, so that the crystals could not build up and cause painful urination. He never had any problems on the cytoxan. But, every dog is different. Sounds like you've already done it, but if not, have a long conversation with your doc and see what he/she thinks is the best course. I don't know anything about the drugs metabolizing into a carcinogen, but there are a few resident vets here on the forums that will probably be able to answer that question for you.
I'm sorry you and Blumi had to find us. She is so young. But, you've clearly done your research and have a plan, which is great. Sending positive thoughts to your girl. She is so cute!!!
Hello Ilse and Blumi! Welcome! My apologies for not being able to give you a proper welcome last night, I was on my phone and it's hard to type there. OK, so your future posts won't require moderation and now you can get feedback right away. We're glad you're here and that your sweet Blumi is doing so well!
Many forward-thinking oncologists are now prescribing metronomic as a preventive to avoid lung metastasis (it's a new development but one that is proving to work well for many dogs), some are still giving it only when metastasis occurs. When it comes to osteo, remember that the cancer is always there, it just goes into remission and hopefully for a VERY long time, like in Barty's case.
You'll find success stories and not-so-successful ones here in the Forums. Some dogs have had cystitis and some like our Jerry have not, it's a roll of the dice really. I can tell you that over the last six or seven years, we've only had a handful of dogs come down with cystitis, Jackson for one. The thing is, you can stop anytime you'd like if that does happens and it's usually not serious, although a major pain and inconvenience for both human and patient.
We recently ran some stories about leukeran and cytoxan here in the Tripawds News blog , showing the pros and cons of each:
Cyclophosphamide vs. Chlorambucil in Metronomic Chemotherapy
Another Look at Chlorambucil and Cyclophosphamide for Metronomic Chemothrapy
Also, have you seen this topic about metronomic chemotherapy?
Now, remember that you don't have to do anything at all. You're obviously very proactive and have done your research and the therapy you're giving her now sounds great. In the end, the best decision is the one that's made with Blumi's happiness in mind. Remember, it's not about quantity but quality, with or without cancer.
I hope this helps! Thanks again for joining and sharing Blumi's picture with us, we look forward to seeing more!
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Thank you so much, everyone, I've been reading and reading all these wonderful resources and inspirational stories ... and changing my mind about what to do every few minutes!! I guess we will probably try cytoxan (asking vet to give lowest dose possible) and hope that Blumi will have no complications.
I love Bart's story. Congrats to Bart and Darcy!! The oncologists and vets try to "protect" us from heartache, I think, by often providing the worst-case statistics, which is why I almost decided to do nothing -- because I just didn't want them to talk about Blumi (who would probably run like the wind even on two legs, who hogs my pillow at night and kisses everyone within range) as a dog on her last legs, so to speak.
But this is another chapter, she breezed through surgery and carboplatin treatments like a champ, and I hope she will be okay with cytoxan too. I'm sure I'll be asking soon how long to do this, I cannot imagine that I'd want to subject her to these drugs forever after. One day at a time, I guess!
Thanks again to all
ilse
One day at a time indeed. And yes, docs, whether human ones or vets, all tend to give worst case scenarios I think to cover their butts and ensure you don't have over-inflated expectations. It makes sense but as humans we tend to think the worst whenever we're in situations like this so it's hard not to panic.
Let us know what the onco says.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Oh one more thing: many oncos are now advising a daily dose of cytoxan but some are still doing every other day. Ask your vet about pros and cons of both methods.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Ohhhhhh my goodness! Blumi is ADORABLE!! What a mug!! Love is written all over that face!!
Thank you so much for sharing it and "beautifying" our site!
I have tolaugh about you doing your research and changingyour mind every few minutes!! That long inbetween a new decision...pretty good! I do it every three seconds with this crazy journey! In fact, reading al these links again, I'm thinking......maybe......cytoxan again....maybe....or should I try Leukeran.....or no e.....a d on and on!!
Keep usposted a d, again, remember you've just added a very caring group lf copassio ate souls to your family of never e ding support!
Gonna scroll back up and look at that adoravle Vlumi agai !
Hugs! And remember, Vlumi feels great a d is livi gin tne moment, ot worried avout a thing!
Sally and Happy Hannah
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
What a cutie! Oh my!
Thanks for the story and details. Jackson, like Blumi, has been encouraged to be on metronomic therapy and has been since his third carbo. We have a progressive onco that likes to double up pups on the meds - carbo and metronomic. We started with cytoxan. He's a boy and I work at home a lot, so we figured with all his peeing and me being able to walk him often would keep urinary cystitis away. NOPE. It took him 7 weeks to clear it. You can read his "tail" here: http://tripawds.....s/#p106434
We learned a lot and are now on leukeran. I wrote THIS about it: http://tripawds.....n/#p106599
He's been on leukeran now for about 3 months and his bloodwork and urine so far are looking great. It feel very good, very satisfying to give him that pill every AM.
Oh - and yes, you must not touch the pills yourself. They'll cut off blood supply to tumors and/or prevent new blood flow to tumors, but can also cause cancer in otherwise healthy beings, including humans.
I hope this helps! Read the posts....
~ Katy & Jackson
ACL tear in right hind leg 12/5/12 and scheduled ACL repair surgery 12/21/12. Pre-op xrays revealed osteosarcoma. Amputation 12/28/12. Chemo (carboplatin) started Jan 10, 2013 and ended on April 5, for a total of 5 doses. He handled carbo like a champ! No side effects. We started metronomic therapy at his third chemo and have been also doing some holistic treatments. He's a lively, playful 10 year old huskie-boarder collie and a very proud member of the Winter Warriors! Our love. Our funny little guy!
Hi, Katy: Thanks so much for this, Blumi had pretty much same history (diagnosed with partial ACL tear; we had decided not to do surgery, but I had a funny feeling, so got that second x-ray done, which showed the osteosarcoma).
I reluctantly agreed to metronomics with cytoxan today. Not really because it's much cheaper, but vet seems more comfortable, and from what I've read, the science on whether leukeran works in a metronomic protocol is still out. She is to get daily doses, and part of me wonders how administering a carcinogen can actually help?!!
I will be watching like a hawk for any signs of cystitis. Does anyone know how long it takes for the "poison" to get to the bladder, in other words, how soon after administering the drug should I take her out for a pee? I'm also planning to spike her water with a bit of sports drink or no-salt chicken broth or milk -- anything to make her go more often. (Just have to figure out to have someone home to take her out).
Thanks again,
ilse
FYI: Most vets recommend administering metronomic chemo in the morning so it doesn't stay in the system overnight.
More info available at the metronomics link.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Hey- something that is supposed to help: MSM. Is Blumi already on a joint supplement? MSM is usually in there. One of Jackson's friends, Libby, is about the same size as Jackson and is STILL on cytoxan, after nearly 8 months. She's been taking GlycoFLexIII for years. That product has A TON of MSM in there: 1000mg per tablet. Jackson is now on it, but during his cytoxan he got only 800mg. Who knows if that made a difference? Anyway, we were advised to get Jackson on MSM for cytoxan....look into for Blumi. It's a powerful anti-inflamatory.
Good luck! Keep us posted on your little cutie.
~ Katy & Jackson
ACL tear in right hind leg 12/5/12 and scheduled ACL repair surgery 12/21/12. Pre-op xrays revealed osteosarcoma. Amputation 12/28/12. Chemo (carboplatin) started Jan 10, 2013 and ended on April 5, for a total of 5 doses. He handled carbo like a champ! No side effects. We started metronomic therapy at his third chemo and have been also doing some holistic treatments. He's a lively, playful 10 year old huskie-boarder collie and a very proud member of the Winter Warriors! Our love. Our funny little guy!
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