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Keeps changing! thought 4 chemo standard...now 6 better?? HUH?
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Virginia




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11 June 2013 - 11:04 pm
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Okay, my head is going to explode like a fat over ripe pumpkin
Just saw Ettinger's response and suggest six versus four.....but says there are no studies,

Okay, then Tiffany had four treatments and is seven months past amputatii ...YAY Tiffany. Apparently she went to CSU and they supposedly released a study in October 2012 saying there is. no difference in six or four so they go with four!!

WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE!!!

So it's up to us t pick a number?? Step right up folks, pick a number--any number will do!! No big deal! And just HOPE you pick the lucky number?

Pass the pumpkin pie please.

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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12 June 2013 - 2:39 pm
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Did you see Dr. Sue replied?

Hi Patricia,
I recommend 6 doses of carbo, but there is not a head to head study comparing 4 vs 6. While I think metronomic AFTER carbo can be considered, we still do not know if it definitely adds more time (no studies yet). Still it is well tolerated and most dogs with OSA will sadly succumb to mets. Glad to hear Hannah and Atlas are doing well.  If you can afford the 2 additional doses, I would do that next.
All my best, Dr Sue

 

Is that what you are referring to Salt?  I know it is so so frustrating, but I think the problem really is there is no real RIGHT answer.  Sucks huh?

Jill is a 9-year-old tuxedo kitty. She was diagnosed with Osteosarcoma in June 2012 on her toe in her right hind leg. Her leg was amputated on 12/12/12 and she completed four rounds of chemo (2 of Carbo, 2 of Doxy) in April 2013. "Like" Jill's facebook page: https://www.fac.....tty?ref=hl Proud member of the WINTER WARRIORS!!!! Her blog can be read at http://jillsjou.....ipawds.com. xoxo

Virginia




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13 June 2013 - 1:17 pm
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Thanks Erica, Yeah, I think you nailed it---there is no right answer!

I did try to pursue a fifth carbo after reading this.....OF DARN COURSE....the onco is out of town til next week. A vet tech was kind enough to call me back....poor thing....no good deed goes unpunished! She just said,matter of factory that she thought usually they did at least five, sometimes six but she guessed that "WE" decided to go with four because of finances!

WHAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTT? All I've EVER said is I will NOT let my lack of monies EVER present me from what's best for my dogs if possible! K took out loans, I set up payment plans, and I am NOT kidding when I say my grocery bill has been cut down a lot because I've been eating a lot of spaghetti..... of course, that's countered. now y the fact that I spend a lot on organic meats, aocaps, k9, etc. ANYWAY, point being onco is telling me four treatments is just fine and five is just icing on cake??? And EVERY payment has been made on time OR early!!

Vet tech basically said it didn't. matter. ow because too. such time has passed since fourth.

CAN ANYONE TELL ME WHERE TO FIND THE CSU OR OSU STUDY WHERE FOUR WAS JUST AS EFFECTIVE AS MORE????? It' may help others even if not us

Head has already exploded, I'm already umping out of my skin and heart beating so fast don't need to worry about aerobic work out. I really am ticked though. iWANT TO DO MORE FOR HAPPY HANNAH

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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13 June 2013 - 2:24 pm
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So frustrating that there are no clear answers here.  Wanted to let you know that I do have an email out to our specialist asking how/why she decided on five.  I will let you know what she says!

The Rainbow Bridge



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13 June 2013 - 2:28 pm
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benny55 said

I did try to pursue a fifth carbo after reading this.....OF DARN COURSE....the onco is out of town til next week. A vet tech was kind enough to call me back....poor thing....no good deed goes unpunished! She just said,matter of factory that she thought usually they did at least five, sometimes six but she guessed that "WE" decided to go with four because of finances!

CAN ANYONE TELL ME WHERE TO FIND THE CSU OR OSU STUDY WHERE FOUR WAS JUST AS EFFECTIVE AS MORE????? It' may help others even if not us

Hang in there Sally. The study as far as I know hasn't been published (at least last time I checked in early Spring). If anyone has a link I'd love it too.

As far as the vet assuming what you could and could not afford, that violates one of Dr. Kay's "Dozen Things to Expect from Your Vet." grrr. Every client has a right to know all of their treatment options, regardless of cost. 

It's better to hop on three legs than to limp on four.™
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13 June 2013 - 2:42 pm
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SALT Hang in there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

As for what you said that too much time has passed, we once had just over 6 weeks in between treatments because of the usual 3 weeks in between and then low neutrophils, so I would question that.

Jill is a 9-year-old tuxedo kitty. She was diagnosed with Osteosarcoma in June 2012 on her toe in her right hind leg. Her leg was amputated on 12/12/12 and she completed four rounds of chemo (2 of Carbo, 2 of Doxy) in April 2013. "Like" Jill's facebook page: https://www.fac.....tty?ref=hl Proud member of the WINTER WARRIORS!!!! Her blog can be read at http://jillsjou.....ipawds.com. xoxo

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13 June 2013 - 4:28 pm
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How much time has passed since the fourth treatment?  Lili's on the once a month plan with chemo, due to her WBC issues.  One of the things I emailed the vet was whether we should just plan on spacing out the treatments every 4 weeks,  since it seems to take that long for the WBC to rebound.  

Virginia




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14 June 2013 - 1:32 pm
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Hi Jill and Kerry and little Lil!

Yeah Lil, I'm really anxious to hear what your onco. says about five or four. Would love to known if he thinks I can still give her another dose. Fourth chemo was May 15

Jill/Lil, I "think" (scarey, me thinking) It's a different thing spacing out treatments between rounds 1, 2 and three....because after the third one, they don't run anymore WBC.....of course, that's just how they do it I Backwards Virginia Don't Have A Clue Oncology School. Ettinger said in her response she would do metro next between three and four weeks out....so we're just a touch out of that range. Didn't mention the fifth restart.

Jerry, I've GOOGLED, BINGE, YAHOOED, ASKED.COM and cannot find any reference to this four being o,at thing. Google did have a reference....but it was tripawds!! I know this is ahughe favor it it seems the only where I see it is from Dr. Biller (?) as you mentioned page o e......anyway you could co tact her and did out the deal?? For others in the future.

M Happy Hannah's tiring a little. ore recently and panting a little more and maybe a little heartier breathing......and then...maybe not...maybe my imgi ratio. so I'm picking I agitation!,! I do want to do something though....maybe I'll co suit with Sassy's onco.

machine city. of. love all of you. and appreciate yo all so much

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

The Rainbow Bridge



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14 June 2013 - 1:50 pm
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benny55 said

Jerry, I've GOOGLED, BINGE, YAHOOED, ASKED.COM and cannot find any reference to this four being o,at thing. Google did have a reference....but it was tripawds!! I know this is ahughe favor it it seems the only where I see it is from Dr. Biller (?) as you mentioned page o e......anyway you could co tact her and did out the deal?? For others in the future.

Fear not Sally, I'll bet Hannah is just tired from the heat.

As for contacting Dr. Biller, it's not a problem, I've been meaning to do it. So please send me an email to remind me, I'm at the ranch right now but promise to drop her a line as soon as I'm back at my real computer. Thanks for the note!

It's better to hop on three legs than to limp on four.™
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21 June 2013 - 7:48 am
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I'm just back from our family 'kick off summer' vacation-party and reading Dr. sue's reply. Frustrating isn't it Sally. Well, I'm sure our oncologist discussed it with us, but I don't remember the specifics so when we take Atlas on Monday for his third round of chemo, I'll talk to his oncologist and share whatever she says. We also have Dr. Northrup as the head of oncology at Universtiy of Georgia and she is pretty amazing, so Ill see if we can get her in on the conversation too.

Im glad to hear Hannah is happy and wiggling. Just have to share too how well Atlas is doing and how great to have our house full of nieces and nephews running all over the farm, going hiking, swimming, frisbee golf, the new Superman movie, going to six flags over GA and riding the new superman roller coaster! Wow, does a body good sometimes just to move forward and have fun. Thank goodness for my dear husband who pointed out that i had not left the farm /Atlas for more than a couple hours at a time and that i needed to take a break from the whole 'cancer' thing for a minute both for my sake and for Atlas. Atlas participated in whatever he had the energy for but mostly just loved having his favorite twins visit and give him lots of belly rubs. We only had one accident the whole time....there were like six humans in the house at the time and Atlas headed up the hard wood floor staircase (off limits and off his carpet runners! Every one in the house all froze and gasped at about the same time (its an open house with the staircase smack in the middle) so Atlas froze and looked at me like "what?" Then bounded back down the stairs very clumsy and ran to his room. LOL I think we all scared him! chasing him into his room and giving him the once over checking his big long legs. All is well, but he just about gave me a heart attack!

Pat

Virginia




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21 June 2013 - 10:30 am
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Patricia and Atlas! WONDERFUL UPDATE!! So glad everything is going well and that everyone e for a little. such needed R&R!

Had to laughter that you actually PAID for a roller coaster ride when you're already. one that is to this "journey"! Betcha' iked the other o e better...AND... you could get off anytime you wanted!"

I love Atlas's stair attempt. Talk about a dog pickimg up on our energy...WOW!

I SO VERY. UCH APPRECIATE any I formation. you can obtain on number of treatments and if there is any study anywhere that says FOUR is must as effective as. ore! I guess if anyone e would know it would be Ettinger though...but maybe not.

Ask the if they k ow of any study from Dr. Biller (?) from CSU (?) about four being the standard treatment now. Thank you Patricia

When fi ally spoke to the onco. last week she just kept saying "no one k owe" over and over. I said over and over the standard see s to be five. Get ready for this!! She said I was the o e who made the "choice". OMD!! As my voice quivered and shook, I said My CHOICE was based o what SHE told me which was FIFTH was must UCI g on the cake and there are no studies to show five is any better than four!! I asked several times in different ways.....then we don't really need a fifth and she just repeated the stupid "icing n the cake" thing and it wasn't really necessary. So yeah, I made a _choice". I really think... I hope... that everyone else would have come to the as e conclusion or else I'm even dumber than ever imagined! GUILT TRIP MUCH???

Guess I might as well have put water in her veins.
She would have preferred "sugar water" though!
Anyway, she said we could still do two more chemos if I wanted!! OH BOY!! It's now five-six weeks past fourth chemo and I've just sorta' stuck my head in the sand because I REALLY, REALLY REALLY have NO clue what to do next. And I dipon't want to make another WRONG CHOICE! I need to get her Xrays done and, quite Franky, I'm .....anyway.....whatever. ..

And maybe they could give you out n do g whatever next this far out from the treatment. Guess too much time has passed sooooooo..

I know I'm asking a lot and I apologize. I just have nowhere to turn except you guys. Don't mean to be a pain in the butt! Everyone's got their own hurdles to deal with.

Yeah must let me k ow p.ease what your folks say. It could be helpful to others.

I think.....no, I KNOW it's time for pictures of Atlas and Sophie!! CLAPPING OVER ERE FOR ORE PICTURES! LOUDLY CLAPPING......OUCH....STARTING TO HURT MY HANDSCLAPPING SO LOUDLY

Lots of love,

Sally and the magnificent HAPPY HANNAH:-) :-) :-)

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!



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21 June 2013 - 10:59 am
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Sally,

did she say it was too late to do a 5th or 6th?  I can't say much as we couldn't finish what ours called for but IF I had my choice on the matter I would have completed all of them.  But God had other plans for our treatment regiment and not let us do a 5th.  So we are doing our metronomics .  Which is going GREAT by the way :)   So I know while you are trying to wrap your head around a 5th or 6th.  Why don't you start the metronomics ??  And do a 5th or 6th?  Jackson (Katy's dog) had chemo & metronomics at the same time.

 

Hugs

Michelle & Sassy

 

 

sassymichelle-sm.jpg

Sassy is a proud member of the Winter Warriors. Live long, & strong Winter Warriors.
sassysugarbear.tripawds.com
07/26/2006 - Sassy earned her wings 08/20/2013

05/04/2006 -  Bosch, Sassy's pal, earned his wings 03/29/19  fought cancer for 4 months.

"You aren't doing it TO her, you are doing it FOR her. Give her a chance at life."

Virginia




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21 June 2013 - 12:32 pm
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Hey Michelle and Sweet Sassy Girl!

As always thanks for your valued input
I mean that!

She just matter of exactly said, "If you want, we can go ahead and do n' or two more". My response was so where along the lines of...can it still be just as effective as all at once.....and, I got the no one knows jive.

I know I rely on you guys for so.much. But when I feel like you're in so e competent hands...and we're not....I go to you for your knowledge!

The onco did say she was out of town to get her "certificate". Guess that's why she always met me in waiting room......there were NO creditentials on the walls!

I know, I'm being g a smart a..s! :-) :-)

And just to add, I'm not saying it's good to go with chemo or not......so everyone's choice is individual and the RIGHT choice! It's just that once I committed to go that route, then I wanted to follow the best protocols that are available. I'm ecstatic for the time we have and very privilege d to be together and happy and pain free!

Thanks again for your input and I really do appreciate it!! Sassy, and Jackson too, are certainly blazing the trail for everyone. WOOF! WOOF! the dogs roar in appreciation:-) :-)

Lots of love!! Really, a whole lot!

Sally and the magnificantly happy tail wagging Happy Hannah

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

The Rainbow Bridge



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21 June 2013 - 12:33 pm
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Sally you are not a pain and of course you can turn to us.

You have done your best so please do not beat yourself up over any decisions you've made. Hannah has no regrets remember?

Why not just start metronomics ? She will get all of the benefits of having an ongoing, steady dose of chemo and you will feel like you are doing more to help her It's a win win don't you think?

{{{{hugs}}}

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Virginia




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21 June 2013 - 12:49 pm
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thanks Jerry, You and Michelle are on the same page and it does make sense!

Mucho thanko !!

And so glad we're all back together again !

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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