Caring for a Three Legged Dog or Cat
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First I would like to say that Chance is doing extremely well. Much better than I had anticipated. We are almost 3 weeks post surgery and she is pretty much back to her old self. I do however feel sadly for her when I can see she wants to race around and do a lot of the really extreme activities that she used to be able to do. With that being sad she does get around extremely well and is beginning to adapt, bonus, more attention from everyone now than she did before ( She always had attention of course) maneuvering herself from person to person for constant loving! So she had her first chest xray three weeks ago and the vet advised that there were extremely tiny specks visible in the lungs but they were way to small to tell for sure if it was cancer that had spread. She had another xray last week when her stitches were removed and it hadn't changed from the one 2 weeks prior. The vet assistant told me when I was leaving that she also wouldn't do chemo that every dog they see maybe only lives a year and that a majority of it is spent travelling back and forth to the oncologist (which is like 6 hours away from us) That the chemo is hard and the dog and weakens their quality of life. I should just keep her comfortable and happy for her remaining time. While part of this I agree with. Traveling hours and hours on end and going to a place that may make her anxious and upset ( I know the vets office does) is something I don't want to put her through if her fate is sealed already. However I also don't want to see her go 2 months form now when she is just learning to adjust and enjoy her life again and again i'm having to face the decision of putting her down which I am completely agonizing over. Please help give me some insight here. I want our last days together to be that of happy moments. I wish she could talk to me!
Well, I have two dogs that have been through chemo in the last year. Casey had osteo so he had five rounds of Carboplatin with virtually no impact on his daily quality of life other than to extend it. Jet had hemangio and was treated with Adriamycin (Doxorubicin) and his side effects were more significant, but still easily tolerable considering the alternative.
Another option that may be of interest to you is metronomic therapy which involves an oral chemotherapy drug coupled with an NSAID and sometimes an antibiotic. These drugs are administered at home, and others will chime in here to tell you how effective they can be. Casey is on a metronomic regimen now, and nearly nine months post diagnosis his recent chest X-ray was clear.
Best of luck with this, we're all pulling for you.
Oh, and sometimes, vet techs should keep their mouths shut. Just saying, but sometimes, they spend so much more time with challenged patients that they lose perspective. Yes, the "norm" is a year versus 2 to 4 months without chemo, but a year in Chance's life is huge, and for us, it was important to take control of the situation and fight for the time we could get. We have no regrets.
Thank You So Much for the input. Another question would be a more local vet has cancer treatments in their office. My vet says I should absolutely not do this. For the convenience of being 20 minutes away vs. six hours I wondered if any of you had thoughts or experience with this.
I think the drug might matter, but we have vets here that can provide better input. What I can tell you is that treatment with Doxorubicin is more involved and requires a saline drip be administered while the drug as gradually injected. Carboplatin, the current standard of care for osteo, is a much simpler, quicker injection, and I don't even recall a saline drip being involved.
I might ask your oncologist specifically why he feels a local vet couldn't handle it. That said, are you sure a local vet will? These drugs are toxic and some vets may not want to deal with them.
You are a great advocate for your Chance!!!
It is spectacular that he is doing so well!! And it IS still EARLY and he will get even better and better!!
As you already know, no dog has a timeframe stamped on their butts Days on a calendar mean nothing to them. But hings like going from one hooman to another to get more snuggles and treats mean everything to them! And it looks like Chance has that all figured out!😎 Smart boy
Chemo is such an individual decision. THERE IS NO RIGHT OR WRONG DECISION!!! Finances distance, how dogs handle carrides, Vet trips, etc all factor in.
THAT SAID, I also agree that the comments made by the Vet Tech were, not only inappropriate and out of line, but waaaay off base!!!
First of all, statistics don't mean much around here. Some dogs appear ro get great extended time with chemo, some some do not. Some appear to get great extemded rime withpit chemo, some don't. It really IS pretty much a crap shoot!
Secondly , it's really important for you to know, and as an actual fact, that chemo (referencing Carboplatin, which unusually recommended for osteo), cause few side effects, if any. My Happy Hannah sailed through four rounds of Carboplatin with virtually no side effects. In her case, I took her in for a scheduled appointment every three weeks for four trips. She was in and out within about thirty minutes, and that's counting time waiting to go in for her treatment.
Some dogs do experience some nausea and they are given Cerinia to help with that. They may feel a little tired for a day or so. On rare occasions the side effects are more harsh and, in that case, treatment is suspended and the dog recovers quickly and returns to normal.
I have seen scenarios here where a regular Vet administers the chemo, but with consults from an Oncologist to help oversee the procedure .
As a suggestion , talk with the Vet you are referencing who is just twenty minutes away and see what his procedure is, how many treatments he has given, etc.
Jist curious, tegarding the lung xrays, were they done prior to amputation as well as just recently? Has an actual Radiologist viewed them? They are truly the best trained to look at these. They can distinguish between "spots" that may, or may not, be mets. Often times they are not.
Okay, that's just my two cents. Continue to ask questions, do your research and PLEASE stay connected with us and let us know how we can help further.
And give Chance extra tummy rubs and butt scratches for us, okay? And grab a bag of chocolate fpr yourself too!
Hugs
Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
YAY Chance! That's great news he is doing so well, I'm so happy to hear that!
The vet assistant told me when I was leaving that she also wouldn’t do chemo that every dog they see maybe only lives a year and that a majority of it is spent travelling back and forth to the oncologist (which is like 6 hours away from us) That the chemo is hard and the dog and weakens their quality of life. I should just keep her comfortable and happy for her remaining time.
Wow. This took my breath away when I read it. I am so sorry you were hit with such inappropriate (and bad, imo) advice. Yes, that was way out of line. First, it's just not true. I was just talking about side effects with an oncologist at Colorado State University last week. He reassured me that only about 5 percent of dogs have side effects related to chemo, and even less require hospitalization related to those side effects. Second, the tech only sees a small number of dogs at that clinic to compare things to and third, she is not a vet. I could go on and on but I won't.
On to more constructive thoughts for you:
I couldn't agree more that the chemo question is a totally personal one that's different for everyone. Chemo is not required, nor is it a guarantee that he will live longer with it. We've seen dogs go either way. We opted out and Jerry lived two years! Also, it's up to you whether or not you think Chance can handle those vet visits. If it causes him stress and you know it will make him unhappy, then follow your gut. All he wants is for you to be happy.
if her fate is sealed already
One thing we've learned here is there are no guarantees. Nobody's fate is sealed with or without cancer. All we can do is follow our pet's lead and live our life one day at a time, making the most of every day as we go. This is called learning how to Be More Dog .
Another question would be a more local vet has cancer treatments in their office. My vet says I should absolutely not do this. For the convenience of being 20 minutes away vs. six hours I wondered if any of you had thoughts or experience with this.
I'd like to point you to this discussion led by a very well-known oncologist, Dr. Phillip Bergman, DVM, MS ,PhD, DACVIM (Oncology). Read about 1/3 down the page to find the answer:
Can a primary care vet give chemotherapy as effectively and safely as an oncologist?
Finally, here's a blog post we wrote about the first time we watched a dog getting carboplatin. It may help you with some insight:
Chemotherapy Session for Daisee Dog
Whatever you decide, remember there are no right or wrong answers. Just make yours from the heart. Trust your intuition, and know that Chance really is talking to you, you just have to be present enough to hear him.
We will support you no matter what.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Another thing to consider (as if you don't have enough already!)-
If you do choose to try chemo and Chance has side effects or doesn't do well with the trip to the oncologist you can always stop.
People opt in or out of chemo for different reasons. I've dealt with 3 cancers in two dogs and each time chemo was recommended. I chose to do chemo once and declined the other two times. In all three cases I made my decisions base on what was best for my pups, and it was based on facts! There are odds and percentages that the vets will give you, but those are based on what has happened in the past- it's not based on Chance. Chemo is kind of a crap shoot in my mind- statistically it gives a longer outcome but I've been here long enough to see dogs not do chemo and live years, and dogs not even get through their chemo before mets show up.
Keep doing what you are doing- educate yourself, get facts not antidotes, and then decide what is best for your family.
One thing that helped me when I declined chemo for Maggie's second cancer was to write down my decision making process. It's human nature to second guess your choices when you come to the end of the journey. I found when those 'what if' thoughts would come into my head I could look at my notes and remind myself why I chose the path I did.
No matter what you choose Chance has the Tripawd Nation cheering for her!
Karen and the Spirit Pug Girls
Tri-pug Maggie survived a 4.5 year mast cell cancer battle only to be lost to oral melanoma.
1999 to 2010
I feel like I should chime in. I’m an LVT and have worked in the field for over a decade. Personal opinions should be kept to ourselves with clients unless asked. It’s something everyone has to decide on there own. My dog has hemangiosarcoma and is using metronomic chemo. We started today and so far no symptoms at all. He is eating and seems fine. He had primary bone hemangiosarcoma that spread to his spleen and then the liver.
I'm hopeful that you can find a local vet to do chemo. It's not like its a surgery.. it is easy... you might interview some... I know in my area,,, for ex,,, my local vet has a special interest in ulcers.. etc.. .. I believe a vet doesnt even do the work.. ie.. a experienced vet tech does the work.. I'll bet your local vet would be more engaged than an onco vet doing the same procedure...
howard said
I feel like I should chime in. I’m an LVT and have worked in the field for over a decade.
Thank you so much for letting us know, we appreciate your going out on a limb. If you're interested in being one of our "Vet Experts" and having a little badge on your profile, just PM me, let's chat!
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
luke4275 said
I'm hopeful that you can find a local vet to do chemo. It's not like its a surgery.. it is easy...
Luke please review the article / discussion with Dr. Bergman that I linked to. I want to make sure that we are clear on what he said:
Yes, GP vets with a special interest in oncology can certainly administer the chemotherapy, but there are safety measures that must be in place to protect the patient and the technicians who administer it and many GP vets who still do it just aren't set up with the most modern measures (i.e., ventilation hood to keep fumes from floating around the clinic).
There is also a risk of "Extravasation" happening when an inexperienced practitioner misses the vein while injecting the drug, and it spills out into the surrounding tissue, burning it and causing severe damage, even death. Sadly we've seen extravasation happen here in our community.
If a GP vet looks like the only or best choice for chemo, I would do an extensive interview to ensure they do chemotherapy routinely and are following the latest AAHA Oncology Guidelines.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Just chiming in here...my Dobe had Osteosarcoma and had his front leg removed. We did 6 rounds of Carboplatin at my regular vet's office, and felt totally comfortable with that decision. She is very knowledgeable, and was in contact with the University of Wisconsin Vet school if she had questions. She also posted on nation-wide tumor boards with concerns/questions. Nitro lived 3 years after his amp, and his cancer never did return - old age took him from us when he was 11 1/2 years old. Consequently, this same vet did chemo on my first Dobe 25 years ago when he had lymphoma. So I wouldn't rule-out a local vet being capable of administering chemo, but you have to be sure they know what they are doing.
Paula and Warrior Angel Nitro
P.S. I could've very easily had the referral vet specialists (who performed the amp) do the chemo, but I liked the personal relationship I have with my vet - they knew him best, and he was comfortable with them.
Nitro 11 1/2 yr old Doberman; right front amp June 2014. Had 6 doses carboplatin, followed by metronomic therapy. Rocked it on 3 legs for over 3 years! My Warrior beat cancer, but couldn't beat old age. He crossed the Bridge peacefully on July 25, 2017, with dignity and on his terms. Follow his blog entitled "Doberman's journey"
"Be good, mama loves you".....run free my beautiful Warrior
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