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Hi,
We are new members. Lovely Abby has been diagnosed with Fibrosarcoma on her front leg wrist joint. It is a low grade 1, but the tumor came up rapidly and was growing rapidly. Surgery could not remove it all as it was too involved with the ligaments and tendons. The surgeon's advise is to remove the leg as soon as possible, in the next 10 days. Abby has no problems of pain or limping at this time and she seems very happy,healthy and loves to run. She is a 7 year old German Shepherd. We see that fibrosarcoma metasitizes around 10%-15% of the time. We are wondering why not wait until the tumor returns from the surgerical removal and begins to cause her problems. We want to give her as much time as possible to run and play. The surgeon said the sooner the better, to wait is to run the risk that it would spread and her lungs are clear now in the x-rays. The surgeon said the tumor would return in as little as one month or eight months maximum if we were lucky.
It seems that waiting until the tumor returns and begins to cause her pain is not that high a risk and may be a worthwhile risk to take for a possible 6 to 8 months of quality time before amputation. And then hopefully more years of quality time after the surgery. Has anyone had similar experience or faced this type of decision to make. It is such a hard decision to make and any help or advice would be appreciated.
We would do anything to keep her with us everyday forever, but is that for us or her? Maybe it is best to move as quickly as possible, or how dangerous is it to wait until she starts to have some problems such as pain or limping. The tumor was about the size of a small walnut on her leg, but now after surgery it is not visible at all because the main mass was removed. But small parts did remain that could not be removed.
We would also be interested in radation treatment if that was a good option. Any experience with radation for fibrosarcoma that you could share would also be appreciated. Our surgeon said he did not think it was a good option, but would refer us if we wanted to persue that direction.
It does seem that all paths lead eventually to amputation. Should it be now or Later?
1:31 am
17 February 2010
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Hi Abby"s Mom (or Dad),
The decision to amputate or not (or when) is really difficult, and one everyone here has had to make. I live in (well actually near) Las Vegas, and when I read your post, I can't help thinking about "the odds". I think your vet is playing it safe (maybe he came out here and lost on a "sure bet".) He feels amputation now would practically eliminate the chance of metastasis, even though it's only a 10% to 15% chance. You're considering more than just the odds. You're looking at Abby's life now and how it will change. You want her to have 4 legs as long as possible (nothing wrong with that, by the way.) My advice would be to play the scenarios in your head. Would you feel guilty if you waited and it turned out to metastisize? How do you think Abby will do on 3 legs? Do you think you (and she) would rather have the extra time with 4 legs now, even if it means less time total? As long as your decisions come from your love for Abby and what you feel is best for her (and I'm sure they are), there are NO wrong answers. I'm not familiar with fibrosarcoma (Sadie had osteosarcoma), but there are such knowledgable people here that I'm sure someone will have information or resources for you. I'm really sorry that you have to make this tough decision. Please keep us posted whatever you decide.
Lisa (Sadie's mom)
Sadie is my 9yr old Rott/Shepherd mix. Diagnosed with osteosarcoma in her right scapula 1/28/10. Our brave girl had her amputation 2/13/10 and her last chemotherapy on 6/6/10. Unfortunately, a tumor appeared in her back right leg and on 10/7/2010 Sadie's earthly journey came to an end. On 10/24/2010 we adopted Ranger, a handsome Rott/Lab mix tripawd (got hit by a car) I think Sadie sent him to us.
http://ranger.t.....pawds.com/
1:58 am
2 January 2010
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abbydog said:
We would do anything to keep her with us everyday forever, but is that for us or her?
That's the heart of this whole issue. We all want our dogs to stay with us forever, and knowing that we'll outlive them is the cruelest part of our relationship with them. But the one guideline you should always follow is to do what's best for the dog, no matter what. And that's not always an easy thing to do. No one wants to have to make the decision to turn their buddy into a tripawd, but if that's the best chance for survival then so be it. It wasn't easy for my wife and I to do a year and a half ago, and it was even harder the day we realized it was time to let him go once and for all, before the cancer had a chance to truly cause him pain. But if you can look back at what you did and truly feel like you did what's best for your girl, then you did right. And never second-guess yourself once a decision has been made. It's obvious you love your dog, so have confidence in your ability to choose the right course of action.
The question, of course, is how to figure out what the "right thing to do" is. The problem with waiting until the tumor flares up again and starts to cause obvious problems is that by that point, it's often too late. Early treatment, even something as drastic as amputation, is often a lifesaver. Vets don't recommend amputation lightly, so if he's already going there, you need to consider it. Talk it over with your doctor, and maybe get a second opinion, then do some research of your own. Our own dog had osteosarcoma, so I'm not as familiar with your dog's disease (but don't worry, plenty of people here will be). In our case, the sooner he was amputated after dignosis, the better. Some of the things we had to bear in mind may help you as well:
- Osteo tumors are basically constantly spewing cancer cells throughout the body, so the sooner you disconnect them, the better. The idea is to remove the source of cancer in order to keep it from spreading, and the sooner you do it, the safer the dog will be. See what your vet says about the differences between fibrosarcoma and osteo, but I'd be leaning toward a "better safe than sorry" approach to the problem.
- Bear in mind that just because a dog isn't showing signs of obvious pain, that doesn't mean there isn't any. Our vet likened it to having a minor toothache – you don't show it, and it doesn't stop you from functioning, but it's always there. Pain for dogs can be the same way. It might be as subtle a sign as just slowing down a little while playing or something like that, but it's no fun having to live with that constant dull throb.
- And don't forget this website's motto – "It's better to hop on three legs than limp on four." I'm sure you're worried about Abby's quality of life once she becomes a tripawd. You'd be surprised at how fast a dog adapts. Our dog Max always loved to run, and he was damn fast. I felt really bad when we amputated, because I figured that meant his running career was over. Not so. Believe it or not, he barely slowed down. He learned to run again, and I don't think there was much difference in speed. Dogs are far more adaptable than we are, and they don't need all their limbs as much as we do. Abby will do just fine on three legs if that's what needs to be done.
So carefully look into this, then make your decision. There are no guarantees; you simply have to play the odds and do whatever is most likely to give her a long life. She'll do just fine as a tripawd, so if that's her best chance at beating the cancer, then do it now before one more cancer cell has a chance to migrate out of her leg and lodge elsewhere in her body. If your vet or vets think there's some good medical reason for waiting, then so be it, but if they keep recommending amputation, then you need to consider that they know what they're talking about. Because in the end, all that matters is that you can look back and know you did right by your girl – no matter how much it hurt you to do so. And don't hesitate to ask as many questions of us as possible. You just discovered the one place on the internet that's full of people who have already gone through what you're experiencing now. We all came here because we didn't know what to do and we needed help. We got it. Now it's your turn. Keep us posted and we'll make sure you don't go through this alone.
3:59 am
28 November 2008
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Maxidad covered my feelings exactly. We, too, had osteosarcoma and the recommendation was to do it now. Don't wait even a day - make your decision tonight and have her in surgery tomorrow. When they put it that way, I knew it was critical.
I know this is a tough call for you, we've all been there. If radiation is an option, I would certainly look into it. A friend of ours did radiation on her dog and his recovery was tedious - the radiation site is raw, ugly, and fragile for a long while, but his long term recovery was good. Do your research, know all the options, then take the info you have and make your decision based on what it best for Abby.
Good luck with your decision.
Shanna & Spirit Trouble ~ Trouble gained her wings 3/16/2011, a 27 1/2 month cancer survivor, tail wagging. RIP sweetheart, you are my heart and soul. Run free at Rainbow Bridge.
The November Five - Spirits Max, Cherry, Tika, Trouble & Nova. 11/2008 - 3/2013 An era ends as Queen Nova crossed the Bridge.
6:45 am
8 December 2009
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My dog had a soft tissue sarcoma as well - although we don't know which type but did know it was not fibrosarcoma, as I'm told that one is fairly easy to diagnose. My dog was in alot of pain though...when we did the biopsy and found out it was probably cancer(my vet said cells looked like cancer before sending it out to the lab) - I didn't even wait for the following week for x-rays, as I was told typically, they'd do those prior to amputation. It was suggested by my sister(a Vet Tech) to do them NOW...find out now if it has spread to her lungs - because Maggie cannot wait much longer...her pain was reaching the point of quality of life decisions had to be made NOW. That week of waiting for the final results of the biopsy and amputation were llike time was stuck....the clock ticked so slowly because we wanted to get that nasty leg off NOW before it spread.
If I remember correctly, when reading about soft tissue sarcoma's, you have a really good chance of curing your dog with amputation alone for fibrosarcoma...but don't quote me on that.
Trust your heart in your decision....we're here for you when you need support!
Tracy, Maggie's Mom
Maggie was amputated for soft tissue sarcoma 10-20-09
Maggie lost her battle with kidney disease on 8-24-13
8:23 am
Hi Abby's folks,
Welcome to Tripawds. You've already got a lot of good responses to your questions.
Check out Jerry's Required Reading List, the information collected there may help you to make your decision.
I sometimes looked at my decisions for my pug Maggie from the aspect of what I was not willing to do. That can eliminate some options and make you decision easier. For example I ruled out radiation treatment for her because at the time it would have involved putting her under many times. Pugs tend not to do well with anesthetic, and Maggie had proven to have an especially difficult time. Once I made that decision then amputation was really the only way forward for us. Maggie had mast cell cancer. She was not in much pain from the tumor in her knee, but it was starting to affect her leg function. The danger for us leaving part of the tumor in her leg was the threat of the cancer spreading through the lymph system.
Like everyone else has said- you know Abby best, and as long as you make your decisions with her best interst in your heart you can't be wrong.
Keep asking questions and get all the information you can. Everyone here will support you and help you as you start your cancer journey with Abby.
Karen and the pug girls
9:29 am
Team Tripawds
Administrators
25 September 2009
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abbydog said:
We want to give her as much time as possible to run and play.
Then listen to your surgeon. The sooner Abbey recovers from her amputation, the sooner she will be running and playing again. You may think she has not pain now, but just because she's not limping does not mean she isn't hurting. Dogs are incredibly adept at hiding their pain. In the wild, if they show any signs of weakness, they will get thrown out of the pack, or worse. Jerry limped on and off for two months while the tumor in his shoulder grew to the size of a mango. Usually, by the time dogs show signs of pain it is only because it has become unbearable. If you don't beleve three legged dogs can run and play (and swim), spend some time watching Jerry's and Wyatt's videos or reading the Tripawds Blogs.
Too many times, we hear from people who put their dogs through multiple, painful, expensive surgeries only to proceed with amputation anyway. There are some wonderful treatments being done with radiation, however, if you have an advanced facility available. Check out the report from our tour of Colorado State University Animal Cancer Center for information about some of the lastest veterinary radiation technology.
For the more agressive ossteosarcoma tumors, their is some belief that amputation may expedite metastasis by removing the primary tumor, but as far as we know this is not the case for fibrosarcoma.
Best wishes in the decisions you face and thanks for joining. We look forward to following Abby's progress. If you are having a hard time coping with the decision to amputate, we recommend reading Without Regret, it certainly helped us when we felt the same way after Jerry's diagnosis.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
10:00 am
Team Tripawds
Administrators
25 September 2009
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PS: You might want to review this comment Sophie's mom just posted in another topic. She refers to Sophie's soft tissue sarcoma and also also addresses the radiation option. Here's an excerpt:
... they reduced the lump as much as possible 3 times before we finally
went with amputation ... We spent a considerable amount of money having the tumor debrided –
about $1800 each time. It came back more quickly, and bigger each time.
Then the amputation surgery on top of that ...
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
10:14 am
Team Tripawds
Administrators
25 September 2009
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Thanks for joining us here. Abby looks like such a sweetheart, we're so sorry you're going through this together. Everyone here has offered such great advice, I'm not sure how I can top it except to share my own experience.
I was totally aysymptomatic too, and went from this:
To this, in less than a month:
Once I got rid of the leg, guess what? I had MORE quality time. And it was better because I was no longer in pain.
As for radiation therapy, keep in mind that it is only palliative and will not cure it. However, you may want to look into intralesional chemo and bisphosphonates , something that our friends at the Santa Fe Veterinary Cancer Care clinic are conducting clinical trials with:
intralesional chemotherapy Clinical Trial
"intralesional chemotherapy is a clinical trial; results are yet to be published. Tumors most commonly treated are: Osteosarcoma, oral melanoma and other oral tumors, soft tissue sarcomas, vaccine sarcomas, mast cell tumor, and squamous cell tumors. This procedure is used palliatively to control pain, to prevent or delay recurrence of tumor, or to decrease the size of a tumor that has not been surgically removed. intralesional chemotherapy is also referred to as intratumoral or local chemotherapy. intralesional chemotherapy is the administration of cancer fighting drugs directly into the tumor, tumor site or adjacent tissues. The goal is to improve local tumor control by achieving high local chemotherapeutic drug concentrations while maintaining low plasma concentrations.
intralesional chemotherapy is being used extensively at Veterinary Cancer Care, P.C.. Although this treatment has been successful, it still remains investigational. Advantages compared to surgery or radiation are ease of administration, low risk of side effects, low cost and that subsequent treatments can be administered in the future if there is recurrence."
"Zoledronate for Osteosarcoma Clinical Trial
Osteosarcomas (OSA) of the appendicular skeleton in canines are the most common form of bone tumors. Bisphosphonates inhibit bone resorption, without inhibiting the process of bone mineralization, and may prevent or delay metastatic disease. Zoledronate is a bisphosphonate that has been shown to decrease malignant skeletal destruction, severity of bone pain, and frequency of pathologic fracture. At Veterinary Cancer Care, P.C. we have a partially funded clinical trial to test the effectiveness of zoledronate in dogs with appendicular osteosarcoma. The goals of this study include showing that zoledronate is safe, decreases bone decomposition, provides pain management , and delays metastatic disease. Our study dogs will be treated with four milligrams zoledronate, infused over one half hour, every thirty days for twelve treatments each."
Check out our <a title="Bisphosphonate discussion veterinary cancer care" href="