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Need help today! -Dasatinib vs. Palladia vs. whatever | Ask A Vet!

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Need help today! -Dasatinib vs. Palladia vs. whatever
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Germany
Forum Posts: 526
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14 December 2016
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6 July 2017 - 11:56 am
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Final curtain for us I’m afraid. After clear x-rays in May we just found a tumor in Manni’s lung the size of a tennis ball, meaning the sucker is fast-growing. 

I know I read about Dasatinib here and I would love to have some input on this but Dr. Pam, if you happen to read this: any insight?AND would you happen to know if that is available in Germany even?

Also: is it worth trying Palladia otherwise since you can obviously stop if anything occurs, or would I be doing that only for me??

Thank you for any advice here. Please don’t try to console me right now, and I know this comes as a shock to maybe quite a few of you but what I need now are answers, I’ll do the falling apart bit later.

thanks

tina

Guardian of Manni the Wonderdog. -Or was it the other way around?
Osteo and amputation in Dec 2015. Second, inoperable, primary osteosarcoma found in June 2017.
The end of our adventures came Dec 10, 2017. 2 years to the day.

Manni's blog -dogblog-

London, UK


Forum Posts: 1570
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6 July 2017 - 12:07 pm
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Oh Tina! I don’t have any relevant experience, as you know. I’m sure others will be able to offer advice. I will of course respect your wishes – you know better than anyone what you need. But please know that you and Manni are very much in my thoughts.

Sending love,

Clare x

Meg, Mutt, aged around 10, adopted 31/12/2009. Sudden explosive right elbow fracture 06/12 (caused by IOHC), diagnosed with End Stage Arthritis 03/15, Total Elbow Replacement 08/15, problems with healing leading to skin graft & skin flap surgery, Chronic Infection leading to implant breakdown. Became a Tripawd 9th March 2016. 
Lives with Mum, Clare, watched over by Angel Pie and Angel Billie
My life as a MEG-A-STAR 


London, UK


Forum Posts: 1570
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6 July 2017 - 1:30 pm
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Done a bit of research into dasatinib (Sprycel). It appears to be available at least for humans in Europe:

http://www.ema……058001d124

Meg, Mutt, aged around 10, adopted 31/12/2009. Sudden explosive right elbow fracture 06/12 (caused by IOHC), diagnosed with End Stage Arthritis 03/15, Total Elbow Replacement 08/15, problems with healing leading to skin graft & skin flap surgery, Chronic Infection leading to implant breakdown. Became a Tripawd 9th March 2016. 
Lives with Mum, Clare, watched over by Angel Pie and Angel Billie
My life as a MEG-A-STAR 


Germany
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6 July 2017 - 1:35 pm
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thanks! I’ll see what the vets say tomorrow. 

Guardian of Manni the Wonderdog. -Or was it the other way around?
Osteo and amputation in Dec 2015. Second, inoperable, primary osteosarcoma found in June 2017.
The end of our adventures came Dec 10, 2017. 2 years to the day.

Manni's blog -dogblog-

London, UK


Forum Posts: 1570
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6 July 2017 - 1:43 pm
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Perhaps show them this:

https://www.ncb…..po=43.7500

Meg, Mutt, aged around 10, adopted 31/12/2009. Sudden explosive right elbow fracture 06/12 (caused by IOHC), diagnosed with End Stage Arthritis 03/15, Total Elbow Replacement 08/15, problems with healing leading to skin graft & skin flap surgery, Chronic Infection leading to implant breakdown. Became a Tripawd 9th March 2016. 
Lives with Mum, Clare, watched over by Angel Pie and Angel Billie
My life as a MEG-A-STAR 


Germany
Forum Posts: 526
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6 July 2017 - 1:56 pm
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http://www.onme…..erung.html

scroll down and look at the price… so much for cancer as a money-making industry… wow…

Guardian of Manni the Wonderdog. -Or was it the other way around?
Osteo and amputation in Dec 2015. Second, inoperable, primary osteosarcoma found in June 2017.
The end of our adventures came Dec 10, 2017. 2 years to the day.

Manni's blog -dogblog-

London, UK


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6 July 2017 - 2:08 pm
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The article was talking about a dose of 0.75 mg per kilo of bodyweight.

These are UK prices. There is also a generic version available, which is much cheaper. Obviously, you’ll need to discuss with your vet.

https://www.cml…..nformation

That’s actually a bit out of date. This has quite a few options:

https://www.pha…..cel/20+mg/

Meg, Mutt, aged around 10, adopted 31/12/2009. Sudden explosive right elbow fracture 06/12 (caused by IOHC), diagnosed with End Stage Arthritis 03/15, Total Elbow Replacement 08/15, problems with healing leading to skin graft & skin flap surgery, Chronic Infection leading to implant breakdown. Became a Tripawd 9th March 2016. 
Lives with Mum, Clare, watched over by Angel Pie and Angel Billie
My life as a MEG-A-STAR 


Germany
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6 July 2017 - 2:16 pm
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so that would then be GBP 1216,- for 56 pills. that sounds more do-able…

Guardian of Manni the Wonderdog. -Or was it the other way around?
Osteo and amputation in Dec 2015. Second, inoperable, primary osteosarcoma found in June 2017.
The end of our adventures came Dec 10, 2017. 2 years to the day.

Manni's blog -dogblog-

Michigan


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6 July 2017 - 3:16 pm
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tinsch said . Please don’t try to console me right now, and I know this comes as a shock to maybe quite a few of you but what I need now are answers, I’ll do the falling apart bit later.

Ok , no consoling , I have no answers nothing I can add, I saw you searched earlier on the forums we were on the same page. So I have zip!  I can’t just read this and move on ok! We are thinking of you & Manni and hope you figure out what drug to use and kick a– !! 
HUGS
❤️

Teresa have any insight on what to try? 



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6 July 2017 - 6:05 pm
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Darling Tina,

I replied to you directly but feel I should post my experience here too.

When Eurydice did her PET scan (after metronomics and 3 sessions of doxorubicin) and her lung tumours had not shrunk or stabilised but instead were a bit bigger and there were new ones, her oncologist told me the following:

1. Palladia, in his opinion and experience, is not an option. He has administered it to thousands of dogs in the States and the UK and had no positive results. None. 

2. Dasatinib, just like other recent drugs, does not have enough data yet. He said nobody knows which quantity to administer and which side effects to expect.

3. The only drug which may work, showing a 10% sucess rate (in which case it adds 1-2 months to a dog’s life expectancy) is VINORELBINE (also known as Navelbine) a drug used to treat human lung cancer. It is IV administered, once a week for the first month and twice a month thereafter. He has used it and there are studies published. It is expensive. 

Sadly this was not an option for us because we were moving to France and it is illegal to use it in animals there.

I was furious at the lack of options and wanted to continue fighting hard but, in time, I realised it would be best for Eurydice to follow the palliative/holistic route instead (acupuncture, mesoterapy and osteopathy) and months down the line, when I had a lung X-ray done which showed several tennis ball size mets and mets everywhere plus fluid in the lungs we started cortisone and diuretics which really brought her back to what she used to be, energetic and happy, for another five weeks.

I wish there were more options and I wish those options would stop the development of the tumours but sadly things are the way they are, we can only do the best we can …

Please let us know what your onco recommends …

Sending you much, much love heart

Eurydice 77kg/170lb Great Dane limping end of April 2016, amputation (right front leg/osteosarcoma) 4 May 2016 6 courses of carboplatin followed by metronomic therapy, lung mets found 30 Nov 2016. 3 courses of doxorubicin, PET scan 26 Jan 2017 showed more mets so stopped chemo. Holistic route April 2017. Lung X-ray 5 May 2017 showed several tennis ball size mets, started cortisone and diuretics. Miss Cow earned her XXL silver wings 12 June 2017, 13 months and 1 week after amputation and 6 1/2 months after lung mets, she was the goofiest dawg ever and is now happily flying from cloud to cloud woof woofing away :-) 

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6 July 2017 - 6:07 pm
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I am so sorry to hear this news.  We did Palladia, but only for a week before Otis passed.  Izzy’s Mom has a lot of experience with it.   Perhaps reach out to her?  I thnk I had started a forum topic on Palladia too, but dont remember whether there were a lot of comments.

Otis - 106 pound lab/Dane mix, lost his right front leg to osteosarcoma on Febuary 9, 2016.  Four rounds of carboplatin completed in April, 2016.  Lung mets August 25, 2016.  Said goodbye too soon on September 4, 2016.   Lost his adopted sister, Tess, suddenly on October 9, 2016. likely due to hemangiosarcoma.  

Wherever they are, they are together.

The Rainbow Bridge



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6 July 2017 - 6:09 pm
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Tina, we will do as you wish, no consoling. But I just want to say that cancer makes me want to scream mad and I am so upset you’ve gotten this news. I hope this is ok, but, I’m sorry!

Also, this doesn’t have to be the final curtain. You’ve been here long enough to see many dogs live way past the prognosis with mets. I hope with all my heart that Manni is one.

Some thoughts: ask about these procedures, they are an option when there is just one or two mets:

Microwave ablation (MWA)

(scroll about halfway down for a description)

“Use of PET/CT and Stereotactic Radiation Therapy for the Diagnosis and Treatment of Osteosarcoma Metastases.”

and one more (that’s three)

The Lobectomy Option for Osteosarcoma Lung Metastasis

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6 July 2017 - 11:36 pm
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jerry said
Tina, we will do as you wish, no consoling. But I just want to say that cancer makes me want to scream mad and I am so upset you’ve gotten this news. I hope this is ok, but, I’m sorry!

Also, this doesn’t have to be the final curtain. You’ve been here long enough to see many dogs live way past the prognosis with mets. I hope with all my heart that Manni is one.

 

Not consoling…nope…not doing it! Merely ditto what Jerry said!

Add metronomics into your research. And actually, although Teresa’s Vet didn’t feel Palladia was effective , I do know that it has been recommended by various Oncos and sometimes has “appeared” to keep mets from expanding.

Love and good ole’ cyber hugs

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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7 July 2017 - 12:21 am
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Rocky’s carboplatin appears to have been ineffective, so his oncologist has given us Palladia as another option. She said it’s been effective about 50 percent of the time from what she’s seen. 

David and Rocky (and Baxter now too!)

Rocky had his right front leg amputated on Valentine's Day 2017 after being diagnosed with osteosarcoma.

He joined the September Saints on September 3, 2017.

He is the toughest, bravest, sweetest and best friend I'll ever know. 

Durham, NC
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7 July 2017 - 5:30 am
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I have arrived! Although I’ve replied to Tina directly, I also wanted to add information here so that others can benefit (or not! – not sure how much help I am) from the info I can share about my experience using Palladia. I will also add that if your dog isn’t on a steroid – like prednisone – yet, ask the vet. It’s really helped Izzy’s tumor but long term use will cause muscle wasting.

First, Diamondback Drugs is a compounding pharmacy that will make generic Palladia for your vet at a fraction of the cost. Ask your vet if this is an option for you should you need Palladia. It is still expensive, but less so. Izzy took 75 mg every other day initially, decreased to 75 mg every third day until discontinued at roughly 6 months in (lost efficacy). She is on it again (because we got desperate) at 80 mg every other day. 14 pills costs roughly $375 USD, but your dog’s dose will likely be different and the cost varies, logically.

Second, this drug worked WONDERS for Izzy’s inoperable Mast Cell Tumor on her foot … for as long as it worked. Izzy’s onco hadn’t really seen it lose efficacy previously – when it worked, it worked! – but Izzy also displayed the very rare side effect of pigmentation loss … her black nose became brown/pink … so she is clearly very special. Also, she keeps on living, so that could have something to do with it.winker That said, when we first tried it, Dr. Arthur said should could (and would need to) stay on it forever and ever to control the tumor. We’ve tried other drugs as well because her foot went crazy, but that’s a different story.

Third, Izzy is (old as dirt and) nearly two years post OSA diagnosis with NO evidence of lung mets (knock on wood). I don’t know if that is dumb luck or if the Palladia helped keep things that way. I would say that, if you can afford it, try it … because it certainly won’t hurt anything. 

Fourth, I don’t know much about lung mets, but is radiation an option?? I did palliative radiation for Izzy’s MCT and, at first, thought it didn’t work. Turns out my girl is always special and does what she wants when she wants and this applies to her tumor as well. About 6 weeks after completing the treatment, her tumor started shrinking like crazy! Maybe the same would be true for lung mets? She was totally unaffected by the radiation and, even though she is a million, tolerated the anesthesia required (daily) to undergo treatment like a champ. So much so that she was mildly annoyed at momma for not letting her go back to the vet school to see her friends on the sixth day. (She didn’t get that treatment was over.)

Lastly, as Teresa and beautiful Miss Cow have taught us all, mets schmetz. Manni and all of our babies have lots more living to do! heart

Momma to the world's most beautiful American Bulldog, Izzy!! Lost her front leg to OSA 9/18/15. Diagnosed w MCT in June 2016. Celebrated her 1 year ampuversary with knee surgery on 9/18/16! MCT recurrence in Dec 2016. Happy & hungry til nearly 14, earning her wings on 7/31/17.

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