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My Merry Myrtle has a torn ligament AND a second heat less than three months after her first.....advice please!
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Member Since:
22 February 2013
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7 April 2015 - 10:56 pm
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Thanks in advance for your insight and your time!

Naughty trilawd Frankie to Merry Myrtle on an unauthorized run through the woods and fields. He came back within an hour, but poor Merry Myrtle didn't find her way back for four hours. She came back hobbling and a swollen left leg. Needless to say I was a complete basket case!

Bet took xray said it was torn ligament thus the bone was slipping in and out of the socket. He said it wasn't "bad" enough for pins, etc. and he opted not to wrap it...can't quite remember why.

She is on Rimadyl a d some Tramadol if needed. She is absolutely pitiful! She seems petrified to move!! She will get up and nust "freezes". She will nlt even walk towards her food bowl or come for a cookie. She holds ner pee and poop as long as possible because she just seems to petrified to move.

When I finally do get her outside, she will all of the sudden tuck her tail tightly and take of she's running from some horrible lain in her butt.
She shakes until I calm her down. The moments sne does seem okay, she still wont go outside, or in any other room or follow me around like she always did.

Do YOU suggest a wrap or even a cast? I asked how this will "heal" and he said it would form scar tissue and thst would keep tne joint from popping out. I know she's only been on Rimadyl one full day and I was only giving very minimal Tramadol so I'll k ncrease that.

Sorry I'm rambling and prbably as clear as mud. Does it sound right thst she can "heal" with just rest and Rimadyl? And does this tucking of her tail and taking off running correlate to pain in her leg? If the thing slipping in and out is causing her pain, I feel like I should wrap it or something to stabilize it until the scarring can get in. Could there be a fractire that isn't showing up??

And then there's her "heat"!She just had her first ine at a year in December through fjrst week or so January. Seemed like a normal one to me. And now she's having another one?? I wanted her to have ine heat before I spayed her..just wasntw lrelared for second ine so wuickly. Any red flag that something is wrong??



Sally and My Eternal Light Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle too!

PS. Any suggestions on removing duct tape from dog fur? To make sure Frankie doesn't olen the door again and try and get Myrtle lost in the woods, I wrapped him in duct tape and taped him to the floor!! KIDDING!!


20150405_220114_zpsubr9syeb.jpgImage Enlarger

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

Norene, TN
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21 October 2014
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8 April 2015 - 1:24 pm
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OMD . . . Bless her heart!!!! I would be a basket case too! As it is I'm watching my girls constantly looking for any kind of limp whatsoever.

I know nothing of the problems you're having with MM, but I'm kinda siding with you about the whole wrap thing. Maybe they can't wrap it until the swelling goes down a bit. What about icing and/or heat therapy?



Harmony became a Tripawd on 10/21/14 (MCT). She left us way too soon on 11/1/14.

"We miss you so much; our love, our heart, our Harmony."

- Pam, Ron and Melody, Meesha, Doublestuff and Mariah Carey

Los Angeles, CA
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8 April 2015 - 2:46 pm
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Oh Sally.... I've got no advice on this but I would have been in a PANIC if mine had gone exploring for that long ... OMG... scary! I am glad it is treatable (right?). Bed rest? 

Hugs and love to you all!!!!

alison (with the spirit of shelby fur-ever in her heart ) and little jasper too

Shelby Lynne; Jack Russell/Shiba Inu mix. Proud member of the April Angels of 2014.

October 15, 2000 to April 8, 2014

Our story: Broke rear leg in June 2013 - non-conclusive results for cancer so leg was plated and pinned. Enlarged spleen in September 2013 and had it removed and was diagnosed with Hemangiosarcoma and started chemotherapy. Became a Tripawd January 8th, 2014 and definitive Hemangiosarcoma diagnosis. Three major surgeries in 7 months and Shelby took them all like a champ only to lose her battle to cancer in her brain. We had 8 amazing extra months together and no regrets. #shelbystrong #loveofmylife

Orrtanna Pa.
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8 April 2015 - 2:46 pm
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Oh Sally, I am sure you were panicked! I am not sure if it the same type of thing or not, but with Daryl's hip Dysplasia, his hip will sometimes pop out of the socket. Same symptoms, minus the swelling. His hair stands up over his lower back and he yelps and runs around. You can almost see it in how he carries his back. Vet gave him Metacam long term, he is now off for the time being and Gabapentin. Do you think Gabapentin would help more? The heat , probably from her being so young. Lucy was around every 5 months. Remember, every time I made an appt. she would go back in. It is Spring! LOL Do you think the Tramadol is making her feel funny. Or does she seem to be in a lot of pain. I am not sure wrapping it would hurt. May relieve some pressure. I am not a vet, so I guess I should let someone with know how answer that one. I am glad it seems as though she will heal from this. Just time and rest, you hear that Frankie? Hugs, Lori, Ty and Gang 

TY GUY, Best Black Lab ever! Diagnosed  and had amp in January, 2014. Kicked MRSA's butt. Earned his angel wings on April 16, 2014. Run Free my boy and don't forget a shoe. Ty is a proud member of the " April Angels". Ty sent us Daryl, a Tripawd rescue in Sept. of 2016. Daryl is 5 +or -. We are also Pawrents to Chandler, a Border Collie mix who is 15 and 1/2, Lucy, a Corgi who is 7, 2 minis, 2 horses, and a feisty cat named Zoe. Zoe had a non skeletal Osteosarcoma removed in July 2015. No Chemo, she was at least 16. She is going strong although she is now completely blind. She is now close to 20 and her hobbies are eating and sleeping in front of her personal heater. 


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8 April 2015 - 3:21 pm
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Thanks PAM and ALISON and LORI!!!

Yeah Lori, the way Daryl shows those flashes of pain seems similar to Merry Myrtle's. Right now it's just Rimadyl and Tramadol. I did up her Tram to two at a time. So far she's not acting squirrelly from it p, but I will definitely switch to Gaba. if she does. And on my previous visit to the vet, he did saynhenthought shenlrobavly had the beginning of hip dysplasia just by watching her walk.

I've put in another call to vet fo try and claify some things. When you're on the appointment, you "think" you're hearing things right and you "think" you've asked every question possible...NOT!

And it's clear after reading my post I didn't hear jack!!

Yes, I was practically fhrowing up with worry when MM didn't come back with crazy Frankie! I was so happy to Frankie hopping happily to me and I was SURE murtle was just right behind him. I literally felt my heart sink as each minute went by. She's just sooo sweet and gentle and innocent!

Of course now....yeah....I've been googling all day and scared she may have to have an operation...and all the potential concerns with that. PLUS, leaping forward to would this be the beginning of that piece of crap down the road. And what if "something else" is going on and "it" didntw show up in the xrays? Geez! This rotten journey changes you in so many ways....but you guys all know that far too well!!

Thank you friends! I'll update afer I talk to the vet and try and get more specific details.

Much love!!!!!!

Ps. PAM, I love the very, very sweet picture of Harmony and hubby...a real smile maker!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

Oakland, CA
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8 April 2015 - 4:10 pm
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clapclapOK Sally, it sounds like you already took a step back and remembered to BREATHE! No real advice here either but I am so sorry you and Merry Myrtle are going through this! I am kind of surprised the vet did not wrap it. I didn't notice before I jumped in here, did you post in the Ask a Vet forum? It wouldn't hurt to have a second opinion.

My Rosa dislocated a hip at about 8 months and they wrapped her leg to her body to hold it in place long enough for a false joint to begin forming. It didnt work at first because she basically had no hip socket on that side. She did eventually form a false joint on that side though and it held her hip in place for many years. 

As for MM's heat, here is what I found on Ms. Google:
How often do female dogs come into heat? On average this occurs about twice a year or every six months, although it varies from dog to dog. When cycling first begins, there may be a great deal of variability in the time between cycles. This is normal.

So I dont think you need to worry about thatclap

I know its really hard not to jump into what ifs. But thats what we're here for, to bring you back to earthsmiley Just deal with this one step at a time, OK?

And woohoo! I didnt even know you could put a photo in the signature line! Excuse me while I go figure out how to do that winker


Martha and the OP

Woohoo! Tripawds Rule!

Regulator of the Oaktown Pack, Sheriff of the Oaktown Pawsse, Founding member and President of the Tripawd Girldogs With 2 Names ROCK Club, and ... Tripawd Girldog Extraordinaire!

Visit Codie Rae's Blog!

Oakland, CA
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8 April 2015 - 4:15 pm
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D'oh! You DID post in Ask a Vetaw-shucks

Woohoo! Tripawds Rule!

Regulator of the Oaktown Pack, Sheriff of the Oaktown Pawsse, Founding member and President of the Tripawd Girldogs With 2 Names ROCK Club, and ... Tripawd Girldog Extraordinaire!

Visit Codie Rae's Blog!

Westminster, MD
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8 April 2015 - 4:15 pm
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I am with everyone else here, I would have been flipping-out crazy worried......Poor Merry Myrtle. I also have nothing to offer in the way of any experience or knowledge on either problem, but just want you to know I am thinking of you and sweet M.M. Please give her some hugs and nose kisses for me .....

Much Love,
Bonnie, Angel Polly, and new crew


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22 February 2013
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8 April 2015 - 4:36 pm
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Thank you MARTHA and BONNJE!!!

Martha, you had me going girl...I had to go double check to see where on earth I did post this thing!! LOL!

And thanks for the "heat" advice! I think Miss Myrtle is proud of her "womanhood! I'm gonna got get her sized for a bra tomorrow! Or eight!!way-cool

Anyway, the vet spoke to me j n my kind of simple stupid terms.....

* It's a ligament over her "ankle bone"...most likely caused by a twist on her romp through the woods.
* Now, if I got this right...the bone doesn't pop out very readily. The pain is probably more from the said it woukd feel like a bad slrain.
* Not suggesting wrapping'll come to .made sense at the time!!
I have this urge to want to wrap it too! Didn't think hot or cold compresses would help.
*Should see improvement in about ten days. Rest, Rimadyl and pain meds.

All the bad things I reeled off...cruciated knee, ACLU, etc.he said it wasn't any of that and it didntw need any oleration. The scar tissue would tighten it up.


Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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8 April 2015 - 5:52 pm
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It is hard to tell from the photo but that could be her Achilles tendon in which case it needs surgery only if it is torn. There really shouldn't be a bone popping in and out in the ankle.  That is only true of the patella (kneecap) in the stifle joint.

Most commonly it is a sprain and rest and anti-inflammatories can help.  You can ice it but if you wrap it make sure it is not too tight!

How old is she now?  Did they take xrays to make sure there is no fracture?  Sometimes growth plates can be damaged when running.

It is not unusual for some large breeds to come into heat very often.  Just like people the onset of the first cycle can vary.  I just saw a Neopolitan mastiff puppy in full heat at 5 months (average age i 12-15 months for a giant dog).  I would spay her once the bleeding and swelling are down.



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22 February 2013
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8 April 2015 - 6:57 pm
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THANKS SO MUCH DR. PAM!! We are soooo lucky to jave you for reassurance and support!

She's 15 months. Yes, he did take an xray and had another vet look at it as well to ensure there was no fracture.

Maybe "popping out" was my interpretation....maybe he said "unstable".? And just to add more confusion, he was calling the ligament something that started with an"A" with a lot of syllables, and I said Achilles? ....and he said no...and just repeated the "A....something!! He said it was an injury.

Geez..a Neo. Mastiff in jeat at. five months!!! Big dogs jist do everything with gusto!!

I just wish I could wrap her up un a protective bubble and keep her safe forever!

With gratitude,

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle too!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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8 April 2015 - 9:21 pm
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Poor Ms Myrtle and bad little Frankie. I hope MM didn't run into any BAD horny wolves in the woods. I bet if you get her to lay by the fire and you place a frozen bag of peas on it, she will feel better. Our crazy dogs never stop getting in trouble. Hang in there.

Penny and her Gang

Martinsburg, WV
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3 June 2014
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9 April 2015 - 12:54 pm
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Oh sorry I'm a little late to conversation (still getting used to this new system and seeing unread posts).  Anyway, as you know (unfortunately) I've dealt with several of these knee issues with my boys. 

First off, the vet referring to the "A..." injury...could it possibly be ACL he said?  That is the ligament in human knees that go out and he may have been trying to relate that to what is going on with Miss Myrtle.  For dogs it's called CCL (cranial cruciate ligament).

Second, if the knee is "popping out" of place then it's probably a complete rupture of the ligament and the knee is sliding back and forth because there's no ligament holding it in place.  My understanding is this is quite painful and is why dogs do what they can to not put weight on that leg.

I have heard about letting scar tissue form around the joint to stabilize the knee but I want to say that's more for a partial tear (but hey I could be wrong...wouldn't be the first time).  I think with doing this you'd have to keep Myrtle confined with low activity for a while because I suspect it will take a while for scar tissue to form.  The other thing is I've also be told that this can cause that joint to become really arthritic and painful down the road.

Usually if it's a full tear you'd be looking at orthopedic surgery.  Due to Miss Myrtles size the usual procedures recommended are TPLO (which both Lucky and Leland had) or TTA.  Both of these deal with cutting the bone and affixing a metal plate and screws to stabilize the knee.  I thing there's a newer procedure called the "Tight Rope" which is more along the lines of the old fishing line procedure.  The fishing line procedure can't be done on larger breeds but with the Tight Rope procedure the line is made out of something that is a lot more sturdy so it can accommodate the weight of a larger breeds.  With this procedure there's not cutting of the bone but a special line is used and affixed to the bone so the line acts as the ligament that was damaged.  If anything were to happen with Lucian (god forbid) this Tight Rope procedure is something I would check into.

Anyway, hope some of that helps in determining how you want to proceed.  I know when our furbabies are hurting and we're at the vets they can come in rattling off so much info that our poor brains can't absorb it all.

I'll be keeping Merry Myrtle in my thoughts and keep my fingers crossed that Frankie doesn't get her into more mischief!


Sahana and her Angel Leland 


November 17, 2009 - June 30, 2014

May you finally be healthy and running free at the Rainbow Bridge. Until we meet again my sweet boy!

On The Road

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24 September 2009
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9 April 2015 - 1:19 pm
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Wow I'm just catching up on all this now. We were away yesterday, taking Wyatt back to school to get him ready for our big pawty in VA. His class is 1 hr away and it's kinda an all-day ordeal.

Anyhoow, sorry to hear she came back gimpy (but thrilled she returned!). Geez I wonder what she did?! Doesn't it just make you wonder what the heck she was doing? Just glad to hear some R&R will take care of it. Dr. Pam rocks!

Can we call her Mischievous Myrtle now?

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene | | |


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9 April 2015 - 11:49 pm
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Mischievous Myrtle! I like that!! And Wyatt going to school so he will be a good little boy at th pawty? Now that wouldn't be any fun!!

Penny, the thought of Myrtle having pup p ies and a wolf being the baby daddy...LOL!!!

Sahana, thank you for taking the time to share such valuable information...very kind of you...and VERY helpful. I'm going to call my vet again and get really, real l y clear...yet again!! I may end up trying to find an orthopedic vet to look at the xray

It seems like from you've said and Dr. M. says, the torn ligament DOES potentially rewuire surgery, and yet he's going the scar eoute. could possiblw be so unclear!? And I wrote down ACL and Cruciated knee to ask him about and he said "no" in both cases.

She ks doing better and the swelling has gone down some. She's still limping and still holds her leg up sometkmes, but she's getting a bit friskier and wants to roughhouse some with Naughty Frankie...but I still jave him duct taped to the floor!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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