Caring for a Three Legged Dog or Cat
Tripawds is your home to learn how to care for a three legged dog or cat, with answers about dog leg amputation, and cat amputation recovery from many years of member experiences.
Join The Tripawds Community
Learn how to help three legged dogs and cats in the forums below. Browse and search as a guest or register for free and get full member benefits:
Instant post approval.
Private messages to members.
Subscribe to favorite topics.
Live Chat and much more!
Register
Log In
Members
Add Topic
Offline
The vaccine,, whether trial or off trial , requires a firm diagnosis,,, Simon had cyberknife radiation in February,, but no diagnosis at that time other than x ray,,,, , On tuesday, onco did a needle puncture looking for cells on a slide, but couldnt find anything,,, good news and bad news,, no vaccine for simon. , I cant imagine to do a biopsy,, he didnt offer,, I see him in 3 weeks for a check up,, when does metronomics usually begin? any thoughts? ideas?
Hi Luke and Simon 🐾
Sorry about the vaccine ... but remember there are no guarantees with the vaccine either.
Eurydice started metronomics pretty much after she finished her 6 courses of carboplatin.
Some dogs do really well (meaning no mets develop) like Nitro who followed this treatment for about 3 years, if my memory is not failing me.
The main problem with metronomics is we have to watch out for HSC (Hemorrhagic Sterile Cystitis) which, again, I seem to remember Nitro eventually developed.
All in all, if it works, it gives us lots of wonderful extra time and with regular urine testing we are able to spot this earlier, if it occurs, so we can stop metronomics and that's that.
Hopefully Paula (Nitro's Mom) will chime in, otherwise feel free to PM her for details.
Hugs and cuddles 😘🐮💫✨🌟🌹
Eurydice 77kg/170lb Great Dane limping end of April 2016, amputation (right front leg/osteosarcoma) 4 May 2016 6 courses of carboplatin followed by metronomic therapy, lung mets found 30 Nov 2016. 3 courses of doxorubicin, PET scan 26 Jan 2017 showed more mets so stopped chemo. Holistic route April 2017. Lung X-ray 5 May 2017 showed several tennis ball size mets, started cortisone and diuretics. Miss Cow earned her XXL silver wings 12 June 2017, 13 months and 1 week after amputation and 6 1/2 months after lung mets, she was the goofiest dawg ever and is now happily flying from cloud to cloud woof woofing away :-)
Thanks for the reply. Are there other chemo agents that work as well as cyc but dont cause the hemmirghaic cystitis? Any additional med to take to help prevent the hc from occuring?
Hey Luke 🐾
I really don't know.
I do know there are different drugs which can be used but my oncologist felt cyclophosphamide, metacam and antibiotic was the best, safest protocol.
I am pretty sure there were no drugs which could be used to prevent HSC with Eurydice's protocol otherwise she would have been asked to take them.
If you want, I can email my oncologist in Portugal and ask for further options and clarify whether there are metronomic protocols which do not potentially cause HSC.
Let me know if you'd like me to check with him.
Hugs and cuddles 😘🐮💫✨🌟🌹
Eurydice 77kg/170lb Great Dane limping end of April 2016, amputation (right front leg/osteosarcoma) 4 May 2016 6 courses of carboplatin followed by metronomic therapy, lung mets found 30 Nov 2016. 3 courses of doxorubicin, PET scan 26 Jan 2017 showed more mets so stopped chemo. Holistic route April 2017. Lung X-ray 5 May 2017 showed several tennis ball size mets, started cortisone and diuretics. Miss Cow earned her XXL silver wings 12 June 2017, 13 months and 1 week after amputation and 6 1/2 months after lung mets, she was the goofiest dawg ever and is now happily flying from cloud to cloud woof woofing away :-)
thanks for the reply... Yes,, please email portugal, if not too difficult... Often,, Europe and often Australia ( with regard to horses) are ahead of the curve..
what is the role of the antibiotic in metronomics ?
I will , of course ask my onco vet... I will be seeing 2.. I just like to know options so they know I am aware... ( some vets might favor a certain med bec of the relationship with a drug rep. who knows? I want to be prepared.. and I do advocate strongly for simon )
Not sure how I feel about not being able to get the vaccine? devastated? ? disappointed? " sh*t happens. move on to metronomics ? "
Seems metronomics is now my best shot at helping simon at this time...?
Hi Simon and Luke 🐾
I’m sorry I cannot remember why Eurydice was given an antibiotic as part of the protocol but I managed to remember the name, it was doxycycline.
I am emailing the onco tonight and hope I can get his feedback Monday.
If I don’t hear from him, I’ll call him on Tuesday.
I can imagine your frustration not being able to enroll in the vaccine but remember there are really no guarantees.
Metronomics are, indeed, a good option as they allow continuous chemo to circulate in the body opposed to higher doses which need a rest period in between for the body to recover.
Problem is the recovery period also allows cancerous cells to “reorganise themselves”
It is believed low dose chemo such as metronomics can be very effective in preventing cancerous cells from developing/progressing.
You are such a great advocate for Simon, I really appreciate the fact you like to have access to different opinions and explore as many options as possible.
I was exactly like that with my girl.
I’ll get back to you the minute I hear from Luis Cruz.
In the meantime please try to concentrate on plan B and forget plan A if you cannot do it, truth is it may not have worked for Simon anyway.
Hugs and cuddles, back to you soon with update 😘🐮💫✨🌟🌹
Eurydice 77kg/170lb Great Dane limping end of April 2016, amputation (right front leg/osteosarcoma) 4 May 2016 6 courses of carboplatin followed by metronomic therapy, lung mets found 30 Nov 2016. 3 courses of doxorubicin, PET scan 26 Jan 2017 showed more mets so stopped chemo. Holistic route April 2017. Lung X-ray 5 May 2017 showed several tennis ball size mets, started cortisone and diuretics. Miss Cow earned her XXL silver wings 12 June 2017, 13 months and 1 week after amputation and 6 1/2 months after lung mets, she was the goofiest dawg ever and is now happily flying from cloud to cloud woof woofing away :-)
First of all, YOU ARE A POWERFUL, VERY, VERY POWERFUL ADVOCATE FOR YOUR SIMON!!! Your commitment to research and getting the best information available is commendable! Well done!
Just make sure you include plenty of mind space to just be fully present with Simon and enjoy being in the moment with him. The NOW is all we have.
As far as not being on the vaccine, I think the reason for that is a pretty good one!!!
If I recall, one of the precautions they suggest to avoid a UTI is to give it in the morning and give him lots of water so he can pee frequently during the day to flush his system.
Give that handsome Simon a big hug for us!
Hugs
Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
Luke, I'm sorry to hear about the vaccine hitch. Try not to panic though, many dogs have done very well for a long time before it was invented.
Regarding metronomics :
Are there other chemo agents that work as well as cyc but dont cause the hemmirghaic cystitis? Any additional med to take to help prevent the hc from occuring?
Possibly. Cystitis is far more common in female dogs, males rarely get it. Poor Nitro had the bad luck of being one of them, but we rarely see it here in boy dogs.
Teresa, and Luke, yes, there is an alternative drug for metronomics but it's expensive now. It's also less studied, which is why Eurydice's oncologist may not have suggested it.
See this article:
Cyclophosphamide vs. Chlorambucil in Metronomic Chemotherapy
and
More About Chlorambucil, Cyclophosphamide for Metronomic Chemotherapy
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Thank you so much for the links, Renee 🌺
Great info !
Hugs and cuddles 😘🐮💫✨🌟🌹
Eurydice 77kg/170lb Great Dane limping end of April 2016, amputation (right front leg/osteosarcoma) 4 May 2016 6 courses of carboplatin followed by metronomic therapy, lung mets found 30 Nov 2016. 3 courses of doxorubicin, PET scan 26 Jan 2017 showed more mets so stopped chemo. Holistic route April 2017. Lung X-ray 5 May 2017 showed several tennis ball size mets, started cortisone and diuretics. Miss Cow earned her XXL silver wings 12 June 2017, 13 months and 1 week after amputation and 6 1/2 months after lung mets, she was the goofiest dawg ever and is now happily flying from cloud to cloud woof woofing away :-)
thank you for the alternatives to cyc...After I saw the newer drugs listed,, I remember some of the members here used leukeran?
I notice this was written in 2013,,,. any info from 2018 that where I can see what is now available? I will research..
I did get a bit excited about thalidomide as the secondary drug to kick start the chemo... " useful in preventing lung met in osteo dogs." ( further research needed on that)
I see the onco vet who has the vaccine in 2 weeks.. It would be nice to have a plan of new meds to try or at least recent ones that are proving to soon to be standard of care that might replace cyc, when price drops etc..
I am fortunate to have all my bills paid by insurance where i have a 10% co pay. So cost wont have to be a big factor at this low co pay..
I will report back if I read on alternatives to cyc as chemo drug for metronomics .. ( cyc = cyclophosphamide)
Hi Luke 🐾
I know we passed the cyclophosphamide stage here but as I've got a reply from Eurydice's oncologist today I thought I'd post it here all the same:
- Hemorragic cystitis is a problem when we use cyclophosphamide at high doses, not at low metronomic dosage but it can happen occasionally
- The owner should pay attention to the presence of hematuria and dysuria.
- Anyway, we should give cyclo in the morning after encouraging the animal to drink and/or eat moist food.
- When we use it at high dosage we can use furosemide (diuretic) at the same time, in the morning at the dosage of 1mg/Kg once
- In our opinion there is no necessity to use furosemide every day because there is increased risk of dehidrating the patient in the long term.
- Alternatively we can salt the food but this can only be decided by the vet following the patient
- Doxycycline can be used but at this time some authors say that the dosage necessary to block MMP envolved in bone methasthesis mechanism is unpractical and possibly toxic. It seams that doxy is no longer a rational therapeutic in spite of being effective in vitro.Please check with your vet because recent clinical studies are lacking to prove its effectiveness.
I will enquire further regarding thalidomide ... the more we know from different oncologists, the better.
Hugs and cuddles, 😘🐮💫✨🌟🌹
Eurydice 77kg/170lb Great Dane limping end of April 2016, amputation (right front leg/osteosarcoma) 4 May 2016 6 courses of carboplatin followed by metronomic therapy, lung mets found 30 Nov 2016. 3 courses of doxorubicin, PET scan 26 Jan 2017 showed more mets so stopped chemo. Holistic route April 2017. Lung X-ray 5 May 2017 showed several tennis ball size mets, started cortisone and diuretics. Miss Cow earned her XXL silver wings 12 June 2017, 13 months and 1 week after amputation and 6 1/2 months after lung mets, she was the goofiest dawg ever and is now happily flying from cloud to cloud woof woofing away :-)
Thanks for your reply. I made notes about doxy being out of favor for the reasons you posted
await thoughts on:
thalidomide
low dose lomustine
Do the onco vets In Europe still use cycliphodphamide as best practice chemo med?
Is there a chemo med that is showing any benefit over cyclophodamide???something new?
thanks for the help. Brenda phillips is the onco vet i see next Monday .She runs the vax trial in san diego
Teresa this is WONDERFUL feedback, thank you! I am including it in our metronomics information & faqs. Please give your oncologist a big thanks from us.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Hi Luke 🐾
I further emailed Eurydice’s oncologist for clarification reg leukeran and thalidomide.
I also asked him if he considers any of these two a better option than cyclophosphamide.
I haven’t asked anything concerning lomustine as it wasn’t mentioned here.
Let’s see what he thinks of what I did ask.
If there are other questions it is probably best to try and make a full list and then he can reply in one go rather than going back to him several times ...
I’m sure he appreciates you advocating for Simon so strongly 🐾
Hi Rene 🌺
Luis is a wonderful man apart from also being a truly competent professional.
I adore the fact he is humble, does not think he “knows it all” and is always interested in learning, exchanging experiences and knowledge with others.
He is very happy to cooperate with us, whenever I see him we talk about Angel Eurydice and his eyes shine, I know he keeps her in his heart and is touched by the fact she somehow is still helping others.
(getting emotional here💫)
Hugs and cuddles to both 😘🐮💫✨🌟🌹
Eurydice 77kg/170lb Great Dane limping end of April 2016, amputation (right front leg/osteosarcoma) 4 May 2016 6 courses of carboplatin followed by metronomic therapy, lung mets found 30 Nov 2016. 3 courses of doxorubicin, PET scan 26 Jan 2017 showed more mets so stopped chemo. Holistic route April 2017. Lung X-ray 5 May 2017 showed several tennis ball size mets, started cortisone and diuretics. Miss Cow earned her XXL silver wings 12 June 2017, 13 months and 1 week after amputation and 6 1/2 months after lung mets, she was the goofiest dawg ever and is now happily flying from cloud to cloud woof woofing away :-)
2 Guest(s)
