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Magic - lung mets - showing of blood - advice appreciated
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22 May 2010 - 11:22 am
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funny you should ask, i just got off the phone with the nurse.  I have been feeding him chunks of raw meat (and kibble, some liver and sometimes a fresh pet cat food liver/chicken) like mentioned before and he seemed to be eating it and things were ok til last night.   (I DID put a little canned beef gravy, really just about two tablespoons, in his dinner to stick the kibble to the meat so he couldn't pick and choose)   He seemed a little limpy after playing at the park (and trying to hump poor Ruthie) so for the first time I gave him a gabapentin at around 10 PM.  Now the only things I'm giving him now is a prilosec in the morning and a dasuquin in the afternoon (he is down to one for maintenance)..no supplements no nothing else.

This morning I get up to a pile of barf in the hall, some undigested chunks and I don't know if it was when I gave him the gabapentin because I had done smaller chunks with that and these were more dinner sized….at the risk of making everyone nauseaous, I did poke through to make sure there was not an undigested anything there and didn't find anything. 

I gave him a few slightly nuked this time pieces of tri tip with the prilosec and as I am using the spot cleaner on the FIRST spot, he upchucks again in the hall (this was about an hour after the pill or maybe a little more) (forgive me for wishing he would just go about  six Magic-sized steps to the lino in the kitchen)

I have now given him the half of cerenia.  He is still pooping mainly liquid, he has never really solidified since surgery…sometimes there is a little kinda formed stool but mainly a puddle.  It is always a toss up between black and brown and we are mainly seeing brown now (I stopped all anti inflamatories a few days back..would have to look at his med calendar) but still mainly puddles.

I don't know what is causing this but I am having a hard enough time getting food down, although he is pretty willing to eat the meat, and if it is going to come up again…I am considering not taking him anywhere to play today, but hate doing that too because it is supposed to start raining for a change on tuesday and looks like pretty much of a wet week ahead.

I am really starting to wonder if we have something going on in places other than bones and lungs…I don't think he has picked up a foxtail and I don't see a lot of gaggy chokey (no blood since the one I posted).  There was a MINUTE piece of little teeny (and I do mean teeny) bloody mucous that could have even been meat … it was hard to tell.

Since I have not give him gabapentin before, I don't know if that would have upset his tummy?  I am now wondering if I should ask for xrays of things other than chest on Thursday….just to see if there is something else there ….  ideas?

now aren't you sorry you asked?

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22 May 2010 - 11:54 am
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Not sorry at all Diane, we're glad you mentioned this. First off, be sure to chime in tonight in our chat with Dr. Pam. She'll have some great feedback.

As for the barfing, I'm not seeing that Gabapentin can cause barfing. Here's a rundown on Gabapentin and its side-effects. But all dogs are so different. With everything that Magic is going through, it could cause him to be nauseaus.

I think that part of his runny poo issue can have something to do with the variety of foods he is eating. It just might be too rich for him at this time, eating so many different kinds. I know he's reallly picky right now so I understand your challenge. But have you tried just feeding him blander foods like boiled chicken or turkey? Or making a homemade stew?

I just know that with Wyatt Ray he was realllllly runny until we got his food routine straightened out. I know that Magic is in an entirely different situation but that's all I can think of right now.

Bob (Cherry's Dad) has TONS of experience with Cherry not wanting to eat. PM him and see what he would recommend.

As for asking for other x-rays or scans, I would ask and see what the vet recommends, then weigh your options. If they do find something going on with his intestines it would sure help to know how to deal with it, and put your mind at ease.  It may only be a palliative care thing, but at least you'd know.

Not sorry at all you silly, just glad to hear from you.

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

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22 May 2010 - 12:09 pm
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i Actually have printed out a post with suggestions from Miss Cherry's dad.  I realize it sounds like a lot of different stuff, but most of it has been kinda of consistent..when he would eat...the liver, the fresh pet chicken and liver and the evo kibble.  I was doing ham lunch meat with the supplements, folding them in it, but he now is suspicious of that.  The raw meat I just started last week to see if I could get him to start eating after the chemo (he just stopped for a couple of days).  Scrambled eggs, kibble and liver was what he ate almost every night until that last chemo run and that went off the list.  The fresh pet dog food doesn't seem to appeal to him at all, either the big tubes or the containers....

I was giving him the flagyl at night until the chemo and his unwillingness and suspicion of everything that looked like it MIGHT have a pill in it.  I thought about trying an imodium, but havent yet....it is a challenge to get it off the grass, but at least it is brown and sometimes look like it might be getting solid.  I think you might be right tho about the variety especially this last week now that I really think about it.  Unfortunately, chicken of any kind seems to be the culprit in the drive you out of the room toxic gas cloud....whether kibble or   cooked or raw.  And I do  rotate the kibble but it is all the evo...chicken, red meat and   just opened the salmon one...I may toss the chicken.  I don't even know if the stuff gets stale...I may have to go to Miss Cherry's dad's suggestion with the  test tube wash bottle (where do i get one of those??? medical supply??) to get some ensure or something down him if this continues. 

I am picking up a script for more cerenia and we will see if that helps him keep stuff down.

if it isn't one thing it is six others....what a week THIS has been to forget.  (except for meeting Ruthie at the park!!)

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22 May 2010 - 12:39 pm
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Poor Magic! Poor Diane!  Everyday is a new challenge!

 

I went into freak mode when Comet developed bloody/mucus stools right after Christmas.  She never has any potty issues - so it scared me.  My mom was here and was giving her all sorts of treats.  I figured it was the bits of sausage and biscuit my mom was giving her.  It was a very small amount but there was a lot of junk food going around during that time and the sausage probably tipped her over to an upset tummy!  I took her to her ortho vet after dealing with if for a week.  He said the same thing Rene did.  During holidays he sees a lot of these episodes and usually it's caused from too many different foods and or rich foods. 

The suggestion was to give white rice with a chicken or beef both until it got better and a pepcid before a meal.  

 I would be suspicious of raw meat because of bacteria.  Magic has a compromised immune system, he may not can handle it.  And there may be too much salt in the lunch meat.  I don't know   - I'm just throwing stuff out there!

I know you want him to eat especially now and I would too - but his tummy issues may have nothing to do with his cancer.  It may have to do with everything he has had to take and eat!  You may have to treat it like you would if he didn't have cancer.  Give him bland food and if he doesn't eat, don't force it.  His tummy may need some recovery time.  I would guess if he gets hungry enough, he'll eat???!

 

Keep us posted!

Her Retired AvatarComet - 1999 to 2011

She departed us unexpectedly  January 23, 2011 at the age of 12 1/2.

She was born with a deformed front leg and a tripawd all of her life.

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22 May 2010 - 12:45 pm
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A while ago when I was looking around on the Tripawds Nutrition Blog , I ran across Organic Pet Superfood Immunity; when researching this product more, I saw they have a product for digestive problems … Organic Pet Superfood Digestion.  It is supposed to help with loose stools.  I don't know if this would interfere with Magic's chemo, and I have zero experience with this product, just remembered seeing it.

 

[Image Can Not Be Found] Organic Pet Superfood Digestion Powder 60 grams for Dogs and Cats
 

petsuperfood.com

Organic Pet Superfood Digestion Powder 60 grams for Dogs and Cats is packed with natural enzymes and antioxidants.






Amputation on 11/10/09, due to Histiocytic Sarcoma in left elbow. Angel Harley earned his wings on 06/24/10.

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22 May 2010 - 1:46 pm
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you guys are the best…thanks for all the suggestions.  I actually had not considered the raw meat along with the compromised immune system…since he has off and on eaten raw chicken and turkey necks all his life.  I tried some rice and chicken soup last week….I might as well have gone from opening the can to pouring it directly into the garbage disposal and saved the middle step.

I may freeze the meat I have left in the fridge except for a few chunks and maybe go back to the liver and scrambled eggs with a little kibble and see if that will work.  He was eating that pretty exclusively (with every three days or so doing a fresh pet something either cat or dog) prior to the temador.  We just got back …good thing I'm a fat little girl or I would have blown away and it looks like it is working up to rain today or at least sooner than the weather station said last night.  I am SICK OF THE RAIN…growing webbed feet and turning green.

I offered him some kibble when we got back..nope…offered a treat…yep.  His vet really wants him to stop losing now, we are a manageable weight for me (!!!) but if he keeps losing I will be able to pick him up and sling him over my shoulder.  I SO don't want to go to syringe feeding if I don't have to (because of my recent experience).  I think (even tho it is adding another food to the mix) if I have to syringe I am going to try the a/d food I was giving OJ…it is feline/canine and very high calorie.  At least I would be getting some calories down him and I think I have some pet ensure in the cupboard that OJ liked until I bought a bunch of cans (when WILL I learn…don't just    buy a HUGE amount when it looks like it might work)

there have just been so many ups and downs this week that I am going to step back and take a breath and just see if the cerenia helps…it certainly helped  when I gave it BEFORE the chemo last week (another spot on the carpet lesson….good thing I haven't had the carpets cleaned….)

I was actually looking at that powder that Harley's mom/dad posted, it is an antioxidant and I know that the doc said no antioxidants while DOING chemo...so I don't know if it would be ok, I would check with her if this continues.  But thanks for the suggestion!!

 

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22 May 2010 - 3:51 pm
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Diane - I'm just catching up, too - I'm so sorry - and I have no words of wisdom to offer you. 

I know when Sophie  has an upset system - I take away all of her food and just give her sips of water as often as she wants them. Then she gets brown rice and boiled ground beef. I boil the heck out of all the fresh veges I can find - strain them - and then moisten the rice/beef mixture with the vege water. I usually just toss the veges - but you could puree them, and mix them - a little at a time - into the food too. This sounds much too simplistic for what everyone else is offering for advice. So - I offer this only as information.

Of course - I have NEVER had to deal with anything like you are going through - sending you big hugs, I wish I could do something to help you. 

Please do let us know what Dr Pam says. 

Keeping you and Magic in our prayers. 

Tana and Sophie

 

Sophie (1998 – 2010)

"Going Dog" def: living every day in the moment

"It came to me that every time I lose a dog they take a piece of my heart with them. And every new dog who comes into my life gifts me with a piece of their heart. If I live long enough, all the components of my heart will be dog, and I will become as generous and loving as they are."

–Unknown

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22 May 2010 - 9:16 pm
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Diane, Magic, and Spirit OJ,

First let me deal with the "wash bottle". My sister recently purchased one from a local chemical supply house in her area (Chicago) for her Zoe. Turns out that while it did help, the cancer has spread so bad within Zoe's stomach, that they were not able to save her. I have attached two pics to show what I have been talking about when I discuss these test tube wash bottles. The one that I have is on the left. Note that both will pick-up the fluid at the bottom of the bottle and allow one to insert the tip. I have used them successfully for broths and place the tip between the gum and teeth just as far back into the corner as possible. This will allow them to swallow and greatly reduces the chances of choking.

Also, during Cherry's worst regarding her appetite loss, her breeder sent over some biscuits that all of her dogs loved. It was nearly as consistent as the vanilla flavored soy for Cherry as well. They are Hills Prescription Hypoallergenic Treats and can only be purchased through a vet or a pet store associated with a vet (most Petco's). They have been a hit whenever I have offered one to our TriPawd friends, but I also like the fact that they are hypoallergenic. When dealing with these compromised imune system, I am paranoid about triggering a reaction.

Hope this helps and still praying that Magic will rally for you.

Spirit Cherry's Dad

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22 May 2010 - 9:53 pm
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Oh thanks much Bob....I really appreciate your imput...I will have to see if we have a place like that on Monday.....I do have the syringe that I used for OJ and about a million other sizes and shapes of syringes (I am starting my own medical supply)

He just plain feels like crap today I think...no appetite at all and lots of lip licking...didn't want the scrambled eggs/liver that is usually a hit...called the vet and they said go ahead and give him a pepcid and see if that settles his tummy...he seems more comfy (I stuffed it in a piece of chicken skin but unlike his usual gulping behavior he was CHEWING every piece...I rushed him through the one with the pill)...he had been outside and has now come in and is laying asleep behind me in the den.  I am going to do cerenia daily for awhile and see if we can get back on track.  Did you use regular ensure or pet ensure?  I am picking up the cerenia at the vet since we are almost out and  I will certainly look for the treats!  He does eat a treat usually when offered...the venison or chicken things from the vet....I am sure they must have those biscuits....

I will have to start a Bob file for the info you have provided me!!

 

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22 May 2010 - 10:01 pm
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If he's licking his lips, are you keeping an eye on his gums?  Run your finger across his gums and see if they are moist. If your finger sticks  he's dehydrated.  And check for any color changes in his gums.  Only worry if they are grey, opposed to pink.

Thinking about you...I'm hoping tomorrow is better.

 

We are getting wind, too!  And now it's chilly.  Chilly in Vegas late May - sheesh! 

Her Retired AvatarComet - 1999 to 2011

She departed us unexpectedly  January 23, 2011 at the age of 12 1/2.

She was born with a deformed front leg and a tripawd all of her life.

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22 May 2010 - 10:05 pm
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he is drinking lots of water....I'm keeping an eye on that...it was almost like he felt better drinking little bits of water at a time, then go lay down then drink a little more.  Tonight Pam talked about carafate for coating the tummy, I will be talking to the vet tomorrow.....I just wish I had a reason for this....I understood it a week ago, but we finished the temador last sat.

THink I'll go to bed and quit obsessing about it...I just really wish he would go four more steps into the kitchen before losing his tummy!!!  Course there isn't much in his stomach now so maybe we'll be okay tonight!!

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22 May 2010 - 10:15 pm
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I'm so sorry Diane.  Ruthie drinks LOTS of water, has for a few months now.  I've been taking 4 gabapentin a day for 10 years now and it's never upset my stomach and I have a sensitive stomach.  I buy chicken wings in bulk, cut off the tips and simmer them for broth.  Then I cook the wings a couple at a time, take them off the bone and chop them really fine and stir in some of the broth I leave it simmering or nuke it so it makes a warm meal.   She seems to like it warm.  That's pretty much Ruthie's diet now except for the ocassional hanger steak on sale.  When Ruthie is getting a pill like the Temodar that is really important, I give it very first thing so Ruthie has an empty stomach.  That way she is more likely to digest it instead of having something to throw up...that's my theory anyway.  Then a couple of hours later, I give her something special to eat.  Have you tried "The Honest Kitchen"?  They have special diets for sensitive stomachs.  It's dehydrated so you mix it up yourself as you need it...and I also rehydrate it with the warm broth.  Check out their web site!

Hope things get better! 

Ruthie & Me

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23 May 2010 - 11:34 am
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Cherry said:

… Hills Prescription Hypoallergenic Treats and can only be purchased through a vet …

Also available through National Pet Pharmacy, and other online vet pharmacies found on the Tripawds Nutrition Blog Medications page.

 

Hill's Prescription Diet Hypoallergenic Canine Treats
Hill's Prescription Diet Hypoallergenic Canine Treats

National Pet Pharmacy
 

Hill's Prescription Diet Hypoallergenic Canine treats are a treat specially formulated for pets with food allergies or skin conditions. Because dogs on Prescription Diet brand therapeutic foods need an occasional treat, at Hill's, nutritionists and veterinarians have developed special treats for dogs on Prescription Diet? d/d?, z/d? ULTRA and z/d? Low Allergen







Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

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