Caring for a Three Legged Dog or Cat
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Thanks for reading and helping me process. He actually isn’t in any pain that I can tell for the last 3 days. Since the day following the zoedronate, he has seemed markedly improved.
The surgeon and oncologist I met with last week didn’t seem concerned about risk of fracture right now based on his xray. That xray is from the 3rd though and I have no idea how fast this moves once it takes off. The bone density has to be at a certain strength to even have stereotactic radiation as an option… but not sure how precise xrays are in showing that. I think I read some sort of CT mapping is done prior to the radiation so maybe that gives better details.
I have to wonder if my vet had actually made the diagnosis back in April when I first brought him in would he have also told me he only had 2 months? I think he even had one limping episode back in March but it was after running in the yard and resolved within a day. So technically he may be at 4 months right now without treatment and I worry that shortens his time on the other side of whatever we do 🙁
You have soooo much on uour plate, a lot of logistics, just a while lot of "stuff". AMD yes, .it' lots of questions and some thst just can't be answered in a definitive form.
So for the moment, let's focus on what you can control and what you do ,know. Starting with perhaps you can eliminate one of the various appointments for now. Maybe you can sort of write down what needs to be addressed now and what can wait.
While an appointment with a Holistic Vet and Rehab Specialist are important, let's put that in the "wait" file. That not a top priority. at this point amd wouldn't contribute much on your immediate path forward.
FWIW, the appointment you want to follow on through now is the one 2 hrs away that offers stereotactic radiation. Plus, ypu have place set up for chemo too. This place was recommended and you will at least know if they think the. stereotactic radiation is the right option. The likelihood of a UF appointment sooner is apparently pretty slim
As far as vaccines, etc, write down the questions you have mentioned here and take them to the "2 hr away Specialist" (sorry, that's the only way I can keep them straight...the Thursday appt?))
It is my understanding , even with the. stereotactic radiation there is a likelyhood amputation may be necessary anyway down the road.
Based on what you've outlined IF you go the route of one of the particular vaccines, amputation and stereotactic radiation would be required anyway, or at least amputation. I may be "translating" your descriptions things completely wrong and that is why .you want to WRITE THESE QUESTIONS DOWN for clarification with the 2 hr Specialist.
There are soooo many unknown with the vaccines.
So what you do know is you need to eliminate pain and minimize the spread of this piece of crap disease in as an expeditious way as possible.
It sounds like, for now anyway, amputation is not the route you have sort of decided you want to take.. Is that right? You want to sort of hold off to see if it is required or not for one of the trials??? And there is noooo right or wrong. It is your decision and we suppprt you whatever path you take!!!
Ao seems to me the bottom line is: You will know so much more with the Thursday appt (the 2 hr away one, right?) . It will be so much easier to decide on uour path forward.
Please understand in noooo way am I trying to offer an "opinion" or suggesting strongly one path forward or the other. I AM trying to sort of mirror back the thpughts you have expressed, keep them chunked down and address what needs to be handled in a timely manner.
None of us here are Vets or Oncologist or Surgeons. We are just trying to suppprt you and help you clarify through your thoughts as you navigate towards a decision.
(((((((((Hugs)))))))))
Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!
PS...As far as the Vet not diagnosing thos right away. That is not uncommon. Often dogs will be treated for arthritis or a pulled miscle, etc at first. They may even get better for a month or so the pain/limp returns and that's when xrays happen, etc.
And theUG appointment is just a consult, is that right? No action taken that day?
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
Yes, thanks. That does help. I think what happened is I went completely crazy scheduling consultations. I have one set Friday too at a place I don’t even think can really offer me anything. I feel guilty canceling it now as the front desk lady worked really hard to move me up after a cancellation but I am going to be hard pressed to get Honor in the car if we do too many of these in a row! I also have some virtual consults set up. I am probably spending $2000 on consults…which likely will just tell me everything I already know. He may or may not do well with amputation/chemo and he may or may not do well with stereotactic radiation/chemo and any of the vaccines out there may or may not help!
I’m also on the waiting list for the yale vaccine …26 hour roundtrip drive (twice in 3 weeks!) with a dog that does not like the car. Is this at all realistic? Wish I knew someone with a private jet, but not that well connected.
One of the UF vaccines requires amputation. The other is an MRNA vaccine that requires either amputation or a bone core biopsy if doing radiation because they use some of the tumor cells. I’ll paste the descriptions here in a minute if anyone is interested (since we are all expert medical researchers at this point). One thing I find a little concerning is, it says if one’s dog has any kind of life threatening reaction, the amount they cover to provide stabilization seems like a pittance of what it could possibly be and I doubt my pet insurance would cover any issues resulting from an experimental vaccine. I mean it’s probably crazy that I am worrying about dangerous side effects from a vaccine under the circumstances but if I can get a year (or dare I hope more) of good quality life for him using standard of care procedures, I wouldn’t want to lose him soon doing something experimental in the hopes of gaining 2 plus years. Does this make sense? At least with the Elias and Yale vaccines, a number of dogs have had them without serious adverse issue. I don’t know if the same can be said for these.
Hi, This is going to get so much easier once you are able to decide on a clear road ahead, believe me. I can't even imagine how difficult this is with other pets and children and such distances to deal with. Our children are grown, we are close to resouces etc. and I still get rattled filling out all those AI forms which don't work and trying to contact offices whose phone numbers are well hidden or have impossible phone trees. Just think about what your dear boy would want and try to find some time to go to the lake!.... Easily said, I know. Suzanne and Nicholas
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Eustacia,
At the risk of adding more research to your plate, it sounds like you are really hoping to avoid amputation at least for a while. Have you looked into a cementoplasty? Tripawds has a blog on it here I know it's dependent on where the tumor is, but the fact that you can save the leg and have practically zero recovery is pretty incredible. I know I looked into radiation too for Ellie, but she was at a severe risk of fracture so it was shot down pretty quick, but I wonder since Honor still has ok density he might be a good candidate?
A part from that I just want to say I empathize with the research being really overwhelming. None of the options are like "yeah in 99% of cases this works" so it's really hard to make a decision. There's so much cool science on this right now, but it's still oh so new, we truly are the guinea pigs.
Oh, and I’m not sure I am set on the stereotactic radiation over going directly to amputation, but that will hopefully become a more clear choice when I have these consults.
Also, the specialist we had seen that also didn’t make the diagnosis called me tonight and spent a lot of time on the phone with me. She had carefully palpitated that wrist and he showed no reaction and nothing felt off at the time. She personally lost 3 mastiffs to this and had to do a biopsy with one to confirm it because it wasn’t even showing up on xray at the time he started limping. Anyway, she also got the answer for me on whether they still do stereotactic radiation. She said they do. I guess the radiation oncologist does virtual consultations then it gets scheduled. It’s 20 min away vs 2 hours but I’ll have to see when they could get us in. They also have the Elias vaccine….which would require amputation so she said if I have any interest in that, I would also want to keep the consultation appt I have there on Friday. She is checking to see if I can do it without having to bring him in.
Thanks Suzanne. Yes, to add to it all one of my twin boys (13 years old) has been struggling with anxiety and depression for some time. He had been doing a little better but this whole situation is setting him back again. He is extremely bonded to our female Great Pyrenees. She’s really been like a therapy dog to him and sleeps on his bed with him and, aside from being worried about Honor, it’s making him anxious over something happening to “his” dog.
Benny55,
I actually listened to the podcast on cementoplasty last night in bed! I read everything I can on this topic by day and listen to podcasts all night. I’m not sure which type of specialist would do it or if I could find someone. I’m going to research a little more now.
Giess in a way I was cery Licky when Happy amputation. The only decision., other than amputation, was whether to do chemo or not.
It's important to remeber so much of what you are still researching is palliative (btw, Whitney provided the link on cementoplasty) Additionally, in almost all....almost all.. not enough cases have been studied and concluded to provide sure fire statistics, results, etc.
It sounds like you got a lot of clarification from the phone consult today. Put some of this in the PLUS column...very close distance wise👍they do sterotatic radiation👍 they have the Elias vaccine👍 and it appears you have a Bet who is willing to answer all your questions and who understands your concerns👍
A huge factor that you touched in in narrowing things down towards a decision. .This process of not having a path forward is having a negative impact on your son AND the well being of your sweet pip. Ahe doesn't like carrides, she's probably so done with Vet visits and poking and prodding. One thing with amp, regardless of what else you may or may not do, it's one surgery, one recovery that lasts about two weeks-ish . Have no idea what type of Vet visits are involved in some of these "trials", amount of poking and prodding, sedation, etc, etc.
The import thing, yet again, once you feel more drawn to one approach than the other, you WILL make a decision, proceed and feel a sense of relief you haven't been able to feel for quit awhile
At some point there are no more question s to be asked, no more research to be done (yYou've probably exhausted every possibility at this point) You will sit quietly with your sweet dog and develop a "sense" of the path forward he wants for himself and for his hoomans he clearly adores.
For tonight, put your computer aside and spend the rest of hoir evening relaxing with your dog and your sons. Tjey all will feel more at peace jav9nga "normal" evening.
(((((((((Hugs))))))))
Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
At some point there are no more question s to be asked, no more research to be done (yYou've probably exhausted every possibility at this point) You will sit quietly with your sweet dog and develop a "sense" of the path forward he wants for himself and for his hoomans he clearly adores.
For tonight, put your computer aside and spend the rest of hoir evening relaxing with your dog and your sons. Tjey all will feel more at peace jav9nga "normal" evening.
Sally put this perfectly. I can't say it better. You have left no stone unturned, and now it's time for a heart-to-heart with Honor to ask him what he wants. He will tell you, it just means sitting quietly and being present enough to hear him.
Yes, for the right candidate there are many more choices these days about whether or not to do amputation versus other types of care. And honestly, what we have seen here is that when it comes to this cancer, nothing guarantees anything. We see it go in all sorts of directions, no matter how much money is spent or even when the most outstanding universities and private practices are involved. This is just a very difficult cancer to treat with any kind of certain prognosis, sadly. It breaks our hearts here quite often, while at the same time, we celebrate those milestones and amazing stories of defeating the odds. We just never know which way it will go, and we hope for the best with every new member who joins us.
But on the upside, this crappy 
cancer really teaches us to let go of our ideas about what we can control, because in the end, all we have is what's in front of us. And right now, you have a dog who wants you and your son to be happy and at peace with your life together. So I guess what I'm saying is, set a deadline for yourself about when you will decide on which path to pursue. Once you stick to that deadline, you will feel better about moving forward with your choice. And as always we will support you no matter which way you go.
Thank you to everyone who has been so supportive.
I had the holistic vet appt. this morning. I wanted to hold off on that as someone had suggested might be a good idea to avoid overwhelm, but it was too late to cancel. It wasn’t particularly useful. I got excited about the better diet for fighting cancer and some supplements she said we could get him on, but it turned out I actually have to do another consult with a different vet at the practice to set that all up and, of course, pay another hour consultation fee. Ugh!
This general vet did give her opinion that also she wouldn’t rule out amputation based on his size. She did say a lot of it comes down to if I’m going to be able to lift him at all during that recovery period … at least partially with the help of the “Help me up harness.” She suggested looking into Eddie’s Wheels or one of those devices and to get him using it now if we do hold off on the amputation and do radiation….just so he is already comfortable using it and it’s not a whole new thing he has to learn. She said it also might help in being able to take him on longer walks without putting as much stress on his joints. They also have water treadmill and things like that. I still haven’t figured out the car situation. I have a Lincoln Navigator and it’s high off the ground. He normally uses the petsafe telescoping ramp but all of these are pretty narrow and I’m just not seeing it working well with hopping. My husbands car is lower to the ground but the ramp we use with that car is smaller and a steeper incline because the petsafe one won’t actually fit in his car along with Honor.
The place close to me for radiation; it’s a virtual consult with the radiation oncologist but I asked how the radiation was actually administered if she is remote and they said she does all the mapping to determine the machine settings then the technicians and a supervising vet (that’s not a radiation oncologist) oversee the actual procedure. So, now it may be a choice of doing this 20 min away (easier on him) without a radiation oncologist actually present or 4 hour round trip drive away to have the radiation oncologist there.
Consults with both place are tomorrow. One in person in the morning and the other virtual in the evening.
Wish I could figure out how to post pictures and video. I took him to one of his favorite spots after the morning appt. and he enjoyed walking around and sniffing. As often happens, someone commented on what a big dog he was and started asking me a bunch of questions about what breed he was, wanted to pet him, etc. So hard to answer and pretend everything is normal like it used to be. I so wish it was.
Okay, trying to keep things chunked down and prioritizing in the short term. So again, what can be put off a bit and what needs to be done no. And again, just my 2 cents and in the FWIW column.
Glad you got some good suggestions for supplements, nutrition, etc. As far as setting up yet another Vet appt (a Holistic Bet??), you can wait on that for a bit. We do have lots of inf0rmation on diet and supplements here on the site and we can provide links...diet and nutrition...
As far as the location for administering the radiation. The only question I would ask is how many of these the Vet and technicians have done with the actual Oncologist remotely setting everything up. It sounds like things are well layed out, but knowing this can help in your decision.
Regarding Eddie's wheels. Again, just my 2 cents in the FWIW column. We've had some members use them and the results have varied. The main thing to remember in Honor's situation it takes at least three weeks for delivery and this is AFTER the time it takes for PROPER measurements being done with a Veterinarian assistance. Without going into too much detail on some of the experience at this point, it is probably something you can hold off on. If for no other reason you really won't have. much "practice time" because of the time involved getting it measured, made, setting it up, hoping everything fits perfectly, sending videos back and forth if not fitted perfectly at first,etc, etc, etc. Make sense???
Additionally there are other options for helping with mobility if needed. You can get wonderful strollers for big dogs that they can comin when they get tired, enjoy the scenery and then hop out when they want to walk some more. Again, there are links here we can go into later.
As far as getting into your husband's car (which seems like a good option). You can eig up some type of "stepping platform" like a wooden pallet where Honor can step up on easily and then with one more step get into the car. You can also make a "miniature patio" out of cinder blocks where he can do the same thing. Just have it laid out on a place where you can easily park your car next to. Not sure if any of this is making sense either!
So keeping everything chunked down and prioritizing right now, the only decision you need to make now is if you are definitely going with the radiation, which place. Or the amputation and Elias.
Oh, and you can use a DIY canvas bag sling to help lift Honor. They have "handles". Ypu just cut down through the sides.
And good for uou! You are narrowing things down to just a couple of decisions that need uour immediate attention. We KNOW it's hard but you are soooo close!! Good job!!
Oh, one more thing and it isnt stressful!!! I'm going to PM you my email address. Then you can send me your pics and video and I can post them for you. Would be honored to post pics of your beloved Honor!!!! I"ll be watching for them!.
Hugs
Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
Ladies and Gentlemen! Get ready to be amazed at one of the most handsomempuppers you have ever had the privilege to meet!
Ta da...drum roll. 🥁🥁 Introducing:
HONOR! A very Great Pyrenees💖
This pupper sure knows how to strike a pose and show off his stunning good looks. 😎 And when you get to the close up of his mug, feel free to smooch him through the screen. That is definitely a smoochable mug!! 🥰🥰
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
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