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New Doberman here. Fibrosarcoma advice wanted (sorry, long)
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Georgia
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20 August 2011
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22 August 2011 - 10:34 pm
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Hi!  We have a 4.5 year old rescue doberman (Spencer) who was just diagnosed with a fibrosarcoma.  They said it was a grade 3 I think was the term - she said it meant it was the most aggressive type.  It is apparently uncommon for a dog as young as Spencer to get something like this.  And it is uncommon for one of these types of tumors to be as aggressive as Spencer's is.  But here we are, against the odds, with a huge, aggressive tumor on a young dog.

 

It all started last week.  Spencer and I were walking down to the bus stop to get the kids off and he was walking right in front of me.  I noticed that it looked like his shoulder was REALLY muscular on the left side.  Then I looked on the right side to see if it was the same and it wasn't at all.  I called the vet from the bus stop and we took him right in.  

 

Back story:  in June Spencer started kind of limping.  We couldn't tell which leg he was favoring, just that his gait wasn't normal.  Took him to the vet, they checked him out and couldn't find anything wrong.  Then in July he was kenneled at the vet while we were out of town.  they didn't see anything then.  I hadn't noticed anything before last week.  He quit limping just a few days after he started it.  he has never shown any indications that he was in much pain.

 

When we took him in the doctor took one look at it (the mass was about the size of my fist at that point) and said he didn't think aspirating it would tell us anything as it didn't feel like something that would be easy to be sure that you got the right spot.  It honestly felt like muscle.  Thursday morning first thing they went in and did a biopsy.  They tried to find the margins of the tumor to see if they could remove it; but apparently it has blood vessels all intertwined with it and it doesn't have distinct margins.  Add to that that it is really big... they didn't want to risk not getting all of it and having it come back even more aggressive.  They did confirm that they were sure it was some form of cancer, they took samples and sent those off for a biopsy.  They also did x-rays and the bones are fine and it doesn't seem to have moved into the lungs.  When I picked Spencer up on Thursday the vet said that he wanted to wait to see what the biopsy results were; but that he thought amputation would be the only chance we had of stopping the cancer; but that we had to find out what type of tumor it was to know if it likely had already moved into the organs.

 

Today I took him in for them to check the incision and it turned out that the biopsy results were in.  A different vet was in the office that day; but she didn't want me to have to wait until tomorrow to find out the results, so she came in and talked to me.  The fibrosarcoma was actually good news since we already knew it was cancer, so at least this type of cancer doesn't move into the organs.

 

This vet wants to wait to talk to her partner who did the surgery last week; but is thinking that amputation including the scapula is likely to get the entire tumor and safe margins around it.

 

If the other vet agrees, and the oncologist that they are conferring with agrees, then we are going to move pretty fast on this.  Tentatively it is scheduled for Wednesday (day after tomorrow, so 1 week from finding the tumor).  There is a chance that we will put it off until Monday though (if they think it is safe to do so) because we are closing on a new house Friday - a house that we bought largely because we wanted the kids and the dog to have room to run around.  We would love for him to have a chance to run around out there before his surgery.

 

Spencer is a large dog, even large for a doberman.  He wasn't well bred as he is much taller than breed standards.  (something we don't care, we got him as a rescue and he has been a wonderful dog for our family.)  He weighs about 85 lbs right now and is close to his ideal weight.  maybe needs to lose a pound or two.  The vets say he is a good candidate orthopedically as he has never had any bone problems and he isn't overweight.  He is very active and healthy other than this cancer (I know, a big "other than"!).  

 

But one thing I keep reading around this site is how it is often a bit of a relief for the dog since they have been in pain and now their leg is no longer hurting.  That is the thing.  Spencer doesn't seem to be in any pain from this tumor.  The vet that did the biopsy has said he doesn't know HOW Spencer is moving as though nothing is wrong with that on his side; but he is.  but this means that there isn't going to be a feeling of relief from pain for him since he isn't in pain.

 

I have already gotten a sling for us to use at first to help him out as we have lots of stairs (we will keep him on the main level at first).  What else should I do to help him make this transition?  Is there anyone else on here who's dog had an amputation due to a fibrosarcoma?  It seems like most of them are due to accidents or bone cancers...

 

TIA!

Jac and Angel Spencer.  Spencer was 5.25 years old. He fought a grade 3 fibrosarcoma, started on his shoulder.  Left front leg amputated in August 2011.  15 weeks of chemo finished 12/22/11 (mytox and adria).  Lung mets found on x-rays 12/28/11.  Started carboplatin 1/6/12. Went to Heaven on 2/27/12. I miss him like crazy every day.  See his blog here:  http://spencer.tripawds.com/

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Las Vegas, Nevada
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22 August 2011 - 11:54 pm
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Welcome Tia and Spencer!

So, so sorry you find yourself here with us!  Others have had experience with fibrosarcoma and they can help you out when they chime in. 

It sounds like you are on the right track to give Spencer the best possible chance!  I know it's scary but hopefully we can help put your mind at ease.

 

Best wishes!

 

P.S.  Your first post needs to be approved so the next time you log in, the post will appear automatically.

Her Retired AvatarComet - 1999 to 2011

She departed us unexpectedly  January 23, 2011 at the age of 12 1/2.

She was born with a deformed front leg and a tripawd all of her life.

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23 August 2011 - 5:01 am
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Welcome to the family, Gus was a front left amp, a lab-rott mix and very strong. He came home next day and was using the stairs that night with no help and never needed any. That doesn't mean Spencer won't, but you might be surprised at how well he gets along. Good idea to keep him on first floor, the less strain during recovery the better. Some find these guys want to hit the door running and find there needs to be some muscle buildup due to the different way they will walk and run. I wouldn't be thinking how he needs a chance to run before surgery, he will run after just like he always has, the only thing different will be the hop, and thats character. Your first coule weeks won't be the easiest, but once your over that rough period of recovery you will be amazed at how well Spencer will get along. Good luck, Paws up, Spirit Gus and Dan

My buddy Gus had a left front amputation on April 7, 2010 and lived a great life until July 26,2010

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On The Road


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23 August 2011 - 5:24 am
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Hi Spencer and family,

We're so sorry that you are going through this right now, we know how hard it can be.

First off, be sure to check out our Required Reading List, which can help you get an idea of what to expect with recuperation, how to Tripawd-proof your new house (congrats!) and more. Our ebook, Three Legs & A Spare, gets into more detail and is also helpful if you haven't checked it out already.

The thing to keep in mind is, Spencer WILL be able to run around in your new yard, just wait! You will be amazed at how well he gets around. Right now he looks like he isn't in pain but keep in mind that dogs instinctively hide their pain to protect themselves from predators. Their signs of pain are so much different than a human's. Subtle things like ears slightly back, not moving around as much, or eating just a bit less are all small indicators that add up. Many of us are stunned to see how relieved our dogs appear after surgery, when we had no idea that they were in any pain at all beforehand. I'm betting it will be the same with Spencer.

Dogs are incredibly resilient. You will be surprised.

As for fibrosarcoma....there are lots of folks here who have dealt with it, start reading here (Chloe is just one example).

Good luck and keep us posted OK?

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

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Georgia
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20 August 2011
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23 August 2011 - 6:06 am
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thanks for the responses!  I have been reading through Chloe's blog and I was reading all over the site last night.  I'm actually starting to get worried again as what I'm reading here and other places is sounding much less optimistic than how I felt yesterday when I left the vet.  The vet had said this type of tumor doesn't metastasize to other parts of the body; but then reading online I'm seeing figures as high as 50% of the time they (the level 3 fibrosarcomas) do?  

 

I have to talk to the vet this morning; but I am back to wanting to move forward with the surgery tomorrow rather than waiting until Monday.  considering how fast this thing grows, I think that each day could make a real difference.  

 

The vet talked to me briefly about radiation yesterday and I really don't think I want to go down that road.  It sounded very painful and uncomfortable for Spencer.

 

For those that have had a front leg amputation, did they take the scapula too?  That is the plan with Spencer and I'm wondering if it makes the recovery any harder.

 

I'm optimistic that he will recover well from the surgery.  he is a tough dog - lived for who knows how many months on the streets of Atlanta before getting picked up by the dog catcher, set to be euthanized, picked up by a rescue (at 7 months old) and then we found him.  For the biopsy he had last week they tried to see if they could remove the tumor, so he has a large incision - he pulled the stitches out right before he was coming home, so they had to put staples in and I think that there are 12 staples - so a pretty big incision.  And he is acting like nothing is wrong.  I have to stop him from playing with all of his buddies on the street.  

 

After surgery, did you guys have your dogs wear t-shirts?  Spencer is my 3rd doberman and I have learned that E collars just don't work well on them - their neck is so much thicker than their heads that the e-collars come off way to easily.  So for last weeks surgery recovery Spencer spent several days wearing t-shirts to keep him from messing with his incision.  Is this something that we can do after the amputation?

 

Oh, and I forgot to introduce myself - I'm Jac.  "TIA" was for "thanks in advance".  smile

Jac and Angel Spencer.  Spencer was 5.25 years old. He fought a grade 3 fibrosarcoma, started on his shoulder.  Left front leg amputated in August 2011.  15 weeks of chemo finished 12/22/11 (mytox and adria).  Lung mets found on x-rays 12/28/11.  Started carboplatin 1/6/12. Went to Heaven on 2/27/12. I miss him like crazy every day.  See his blog here:  http://spencer.tripawds.com/

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knoxville, tn
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23 August 2011 - 6:34 am
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we had a soft tissue sarcoma - grade 3,  in the right front 'wrist' area.  gayle lost her leg feb 2010 and yes, they took the scapula too.  the surgery team explained that it was a quicker healing time, and less pain, as there isn't a 'bony connection' there.  after healing, we did five rounds of doxorubicin chemo.  we did opt for the t-shirt route, as the cone was just not working for gayle, and the shirt was enough to keep the incision clean and keep the thought of licking at bay.   you can read more about our journey at her blog listed in the box below.  paws crossed for a quick recovery!

charon & gayle

Life is good, so very, very good!!! Gayle enjoyed each and every moment of each and every wonderful day (naps included).  She left this world December 12, 2011 – off on a new adventure.

Love Never Ends

http://etgayle

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Washington
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23 August 2011 - 12:33 pm
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When Rio had her first set of Mast Cell Tumors, we opted for radiation because they were "locally aggressive" -- they kept coming back in the same spot after their surgical removal. After the first couple of sessions, her hair fell out in the target area, although they'd shaved it pre-rad. She handled all the treatments and accompanying sedation very well, but I had to make special shirts for her because she figured out how to get her head up the sleeve of a human t-shirt, and would try to lick the radiation site. Because they gave us silver nitrate cream to put on the site, I was concerned about the licking even more so than normal. Thank goodness it was winter, because she wore those little shirts for almost 5 months (and looked GOOD doing it!!!).

When she had her amputation, shirts weren't an option, because it was her rear leg. I tried boxer shorts, but her having a skinny little hiney prevented them from staying on... So I just had to watch her like a hawk around the clock to keep her from licking. The little stinker would sneak off into another room to lick because she knew I would holler at her.

the Woo

~ ~ Rio ~ ~
Forever in my heart...

April 2000 – January 20, 2012
Diagnosed with Mast Cell Cancer in June 2007. Left rear leg amputated Feb. 8, 2011.
Mets discovered Aug. 31, 2011. Read more of Rio's story here.

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Georgia
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23 August 2011 - 12:44 pm
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well, I just got off of the phone with the vet who did Spencer's biopsy last week.  Things aren't as good as we thought yesterday.  While the fibrosarcoma doesn't tend to metastasize, a cancer that is level 3 does.  Nothing has shown up in x-rays yet and we can't get him in for an ultrasound until tomorrow evening.

 

But without amputation the vet estimates that we have 2 weeks - 1 month before we need to put him to sleep.  The tumor is growing REALLY fast and the doctor said Spencer's skin just won't be able to hold it in, the skin will rupture.  And while right now Spencer seems absolutely fine, it is going to end up making the leg lame.

 

So, even if it only buys us a few months, we are going ahead with it.  As soon as I get my kids off of the bus we will head down to drop Spencer off and tomorrow morning he will have his leg amputated.

Jac and Angel Spencer.  Spencer was 5.25 years old. He fought a grade 3 fibrosarcoma, started on his shoulder.  Left front leg amputated in August 2011.  15 weeks of chemo finished 12/22/11 (mytox and adria).  Lung mets found on x-rays 12/28/11.  Started carboplatin 1/6/12. Went to Heaven on 2/27/12. I miss him like crazy every day.  See his blog here:  http://spencer.tripawds.com/

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Portage Lake, Maine
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23 August 2011 - 1:18 pm
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Hello Jac and welcome to the club no one wants to belong to!!

My dog has(had?) soft tissue sarcoma on her left rear leg/knee.  Don't know for sure which type as many special stains still couldn't tell.  She is coming up on 2 years post amputation come October.  Her tumor was also very aggressive and unclear margins.  The surgeon took 10 cm. of margins...she took even more than may be typical of her muscle tissue on her 'butt' to be sure to give her a good chance of it not coming back any time soon.  So far so good.  She didn't receive chemo or radiation...  She is on daily homeopathics to keep her cancer from spreading via Dr. Charles Loops.  My dog's tumor got big REALLY fast...she was in a lot of pain, however, in comparison to your dog. 

You are doing the best thing you can...amputate the leg..and quickly IMO.  Good luck to you and your pup...keep us updated.

 

Tracy, Maggie's Mom

Maggie was amputated for soft tissue sarcoma 10-20-09

Maggie lost her battle with kidney disease on 8-24-13

http://maggie.t.....t-24-2013/

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krun15
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23 August 2011 - 1:26 pm
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My pug Maggie had a large mast cell tumor on her left rear leg.  Unlike OSA there was no pain for her from the tumor- but we faced what you are dealing with.  A tumor that would rupture the skin and leave a wound that would not heal.  It was hard to decide to amputate because Maggie acted fine other than the growing lump.

I know it is hard- but try not to focus on the stats and prognosis.  Maggie was given 6 to 9 months with chemo treatments and lived almost 4 years and did not die from the mast cell cancer.  She really beat the odds, but it can happen.  Focus on the quality of the time you have with Spencer.

Good luck with the surgery tomorrow, let us know how he (and you) are doing.

 

Karen and the pugapalooza

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Golden Girls
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23 August 2011 - 2:07 pm
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Welcome to Tripawds! Sorry to hear what you've been going through. Skyler had a mast cell tumor on her hind leg like Maggie did, and wasn't in any pain. It was a tough decision to put her through surgery when she wasn't in any pain. Your pup will do fine.

Question... are you still in the Atlanta area? I'm in Duluth. We took Skyler (and Chloe) to GVS on Abernathy. It is an excellent hospital.

Hope all goes well, and please keep us all posted.

Cathy

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23 August 2011 - 6:04 pm
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Bo is nearly 3 months post-amp and we are living the "quality of life", not "quantity of life" motto. So, if you ask us, your go-ahead attitude for Spencer is just what you need! Spencer sounds like a great pup and I'm sure he will be a lot happier once the yucky "c" is gone! 

Bo is a front left amp and they took the scapula too. We kept a t-shirt on him for several weeks post-amp...at first to protect the incision, after that so I wouldn't boo hoo every time I looked at him. Now, he runs around "naked" and it is perfectly normal to us. Surgery recovery can have it's ups and downs. Every dog is different and finding the right combo of meds can be tricky. It sounds like you have a strong veterinary team working for you. 

So, are you in Atlanta?! We are in N. Florida and have been looking to pawty with another tripawd! Maybe when Spencer gets to feeling better?

Good luck tomorrow! Stay strong, get some rest, and keep us posted!!

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Georgia
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20 August 2011
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23 August 2011 - 7:26 pm
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Thanks guys!  I feel better after the drop off.  the doctor was very optimistic.  Spencers blood work has all been good.  They did another set of digital x-rays today and saw nothing of concern.  The vet said that the thing that is playing against us with delaying the amputation at all is putting some things in our favor too.  Meaning that 3 weeks ago we know this tumor was not there (at least that you could see).  A week ago we did the surgery for the biopsy (the day after seeing the mass for the first time) and less than a week later we are doing the amputation.  Often a mass comes up, the owner watches it, decides to take the dog in after a few days - a few weeks, the vet watches it.  Might try aspirating it.  Might or might not get a good sample.  Then they do the biopsy, and here they are a month or more from when the mass was first noticed before they start looking at a course of action.  We have moved on it immediately, hopefully fast enough to catch it before it gets to the organs.  They also think that Spencer's demeanor bodes well for it not having gotten too far - he has no loss of appetite, still has all of his energy and spirit.  So, we are preparing for the worst; but hoping for the best.  Hopefully they can get all of the cells tomorrow and this is the last we will see of that tumor!  

 

And I am still in the Atlanta area.  Not in actual Atlanta (though my mom does live *in* Atlanta).  We live out in Cobb.  Meghan - I have family in Valdosta and have been meaning to make a trip down there sometime.  I'll also be in Dunnellon, FL in September with Spencer in tow!  But that might be a long haul for you...

 

(we have decided that we are going to try desperately to never kennel Spencer again.  When possible my mom and step dad will keep him if we are out of town somewhere that he can't go - like Disney.  If they can't keep him - like for our ski trip to WY since they go with us - I'm going to start looking now for a house sitter who will stay in our house to keep his routine normal.)

Jac and Angel Spencer.  Spencer was 5.25 years old. He fought a grade 3 fibrosarcoma, started on his shoulder.  Left front leg amputated in August 2011.  15 weeks of chemo finished 12/22/11 (mytox and adria).  Lung mets found on x-rays 12/28/11.  Started carboplatin 1/6/12. Went to Heaven on 2/27/12. I miss him like crazy every day.  See his blog here:  http://spencer.tripawds.com/

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Madison, WI
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23 August 2011 - 7:28 pm
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Yoda had osteosarcoma, but he was a front leg amputee (scapula removed) and a doberman mix.  He was nearly 20 lbs. less than your very big boy though - wow!  Looks like you've read a lot of helpful stuff already, but if you'd like, here are some Yoda posts to check out to add to your sense of what you might expect with a three legged Spencer big-grin:

http://tripawds.....38;ret=all

http://tripawds.....38;ret=all

http://tripawds.....38;ret=all

http://gerry.tr.....in-action/

 

(This last one is a blog post on my current tripawd Gerry's blog - didn't venture to try doing a blog, when I still had Yoda - but if you scroll down, there's video of Yoda on three legs)

Yoda&Mom united: 9/5/06 …….… Yoda&Leg separated: 6/5/09……… Yoda&Leg reunited: 10/14/09 ……… ……………….………….………….……. Yoda&Mom NEVER separated! …………………….….……....….…… Though Spirit Yoda currently free-lances as a rabbit hunting instructor for tripawds nationwide

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Georgia
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20 August 2011
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23 August 2011 - 8:16 pm
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thanks!  about to go read through those!

 

Yeah, Spencer is very big for a doberman.  He is my 3rd doberman and by far the largest.  I suspect he was bred by a less than reputable breeder.  you know, one who tells customers about so called "Warlock Dobermans" and how this large size is desirable.  When in actuality his size means he doesn't meet breed standards at all, could never be shown and should never have been used for breeding (which he wasn't since he got away).  I wonder if he got away from some sort of puppy mill after they docked his tail and removed his claws; but before doing the ears.  (which is why we wanted him, all of my dobermans have had natural ears).  but on the flip side, I don't know if it is nature or nurture; but he is a GREAT dog.  Wonderful with our 3 small kids, protective enough of us for it to be a good thing; but not to a point that he is dangerous to anyone who isn't meaning us harm.  I'm sure a lot of his personality comes from what he went through on the streets and in the pound (he NEVER runs away from us, is very loyal...).

 

Hopefully his size isn't going to make things too much harder for him.  But we are really going to have to do something to teach him that he can no longer "run" on/off of our 5 foot retaining wall!

Jac and Angel Spencer.  Spencer was 5.25 years old. He fought a grade 3 fibrosarcoma, started on his shoulder.  Left front leg amputated in August 2011.  15 weeks of chemo finished 12/22/11 (mytox and adria).  Lung mets found on x-rays 12/28/11.  Started carboplatin 1/6/12. Went to Heaven on 2/27/12. I miss him like crazy every day.  See his blog here:  http://spencer.tripawds.com/

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