Caring for a Three Legged Dog or Cat
Tripawds is your home to learn how to care for a three legged dog or cat, with answers about dog leg amputation, and cat amputation recovery from many years of member experiences.
Join The Tripawds Community
Learn how to help three legged dogs and cats in the forums below. Browse and search as a guest or register for free and get full member benefits:
Instant post approval.
Private messages to members.
Subscribe to favorite topics.
Live Chat and much more!
Register
Log In
Members
Add Topic
Offline
Well I wasn't sure how to come up with a delicate 'topic name'.
I started Tazzie on the K9 omega (fish oil made by the K9 immunity people) about 10 days ago. His poo immediately started to get runny to the point where it was sheer liquid by day 2 of the fish oil. However, we did a pre-chemo blood count at that time, which showed High WBC, at which point he was put on antibiotics (he had just been taken off of them two days earlier). The vet thought the soft poo was probably related to the high WBC (an indication of fighting infection), and not related to the fish oil. But of course I already took him off the fish oil by then.
I put him on the K9 omega again last night (one pill at night, one in the morning, he is 32 kg so that should not be too large a dose). His poo is already soft tonight, not yet liquid. Coincidentally, he also stopped the antibiotics yesterday, so it is theoretically possible that his blood counts are high again. We meet our new vet on Friday, so I'll ask for blood counts as that time.
Question: has anyone else had a dog that started to get runny poo soon after it started on fish oil or more specifically the K9 omega pills? Tazzie used to take lots of fish oil that was intended for humans 7 yrs ago when he had kidney trouble, but had no side effects then.
Susan & Tazzie 2
Are you sure it isn't from the antibiotics? Unless your dog has a fever he does not need all those antibiotics just because he is on chemo. It is common for the WBC to bottom out 7-10 days after the chemo and then the bone marrow kicks it up again, often to elevated levels. I would look into FortiFlora or another probiotic to help him out.
It is possible to get soft stools from fish oil, although it is not common to see watery diarrhea. I would wait for the diarrhea to resolve and then gradually work up to the prescribed dose of fish oil.
Pam and Tazzie
Susan and Tazzie 2,
Codie Rae has had problems with the fish oil. About a month ago things got softer than we like. I took her off the fish oil (we have been using the bottled Grizzly Salmon Oil) for about a week and things improved. I then started a half dose for a few days before gradually increasing back to the full dose. Since then everything has been fine. I don't know about the pills, but I would assume they could do the same thing.
tazziedog: I don't like Tazzie being on all the antibiotics either – just following the oncologist's instructions. But if the WBC & neutrophils are well below the normal range, as they were, shouldn't he be on AB in that case?
In any case, the soft poo started 1&1/2 days after he ended the antibiotics, which happened in both cases to coincide with the time we started the K9 omega. Personally my guess is that the WBC were high (the 2nd reason for them to prescribe AB) for other reasons other than fighting infection. He was exhausted and stressed after a huge weekend and they might also have rebounded from being low as you say.
Is the FortiFlora and probiotic to help the runny stool, or the low cell counts?
tazziedog and Ears: I'll back off on the fish oil tonight and tomorrow and see how things flow. And maybe I'll try the lowly human grade salmon oil I initially bought for him. And what is the dose you work up to? Are other people out there using the K9 omega?
many thanks as usual,
Tazzie 2
I used to give Jack the K9 Omega, but I switched him to flax seed oil. I now give the K9 Omega to our other dog, Colby, who is 9 months (just so we don't waste the bottle), and he is fine. Jack also had no changes in his intestinal activity (really, there's no politically correct way to talk about poo).
Intestinal activity, ha. The thing is - Jack never ever reacts to anything (amp, chemo, fish oil . . .), does he!!
Gotta say that Wyatt over here got runny poo after a few days of fish oil capsules but we're not sure if that's what was causing it. Could be all of the pond water he's been sucking down on our walks at the ranch.
Poo.....nope, can't hide what it really is, no way around that!
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Tazzie said:
Is the FortiFlora and probiotic to help the runny stool, or the low cell counts?
I'm thinking she suggested it to keep his intestines happy with active cultures/flora & fauna and all that good stuff inside. Antibiotics wipe it out, from what I understand.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Tazzie, I guess that if it is the oncologist prescribing the antibiotic then you should take them, although I have never heard of anyone giving them for a high white count post chemo unless the dog is sick. All of the oncologists out this way only use antibiotics if the neutrophil count is below 1000 and/or the dog has a fever.
Jerry is right the probiotics are to prevent a kill-off of the good bacteria in the gut (often a problem with prolonged antibiotic use). There is some evidence from Fortiflora that this product might keep dogs stressed with chemo or cancer healthier so both Tazzie and my other cancer dog Kona take this routinely (once daily).
When you buy fish oil you need to consider the omega 3 levels, not the total fish oil dose per capsule. Tazzie is huge so she needs 4000 mg of omega 3 (EPA and DHA are best). Flax oil is okay but dogs do not utilize this oil as well as people so the omega 3 oils (ALA) must be converted in the body to EPA and DHA. Flax seed is not bad but just takes an extra step to metabolize, but I can't comment on what dose a dog might need when fighting cancer.
Pam and Tazzie
Hi Tazziedog
Although I did not like the two 7 day rounds of AB in 17 days, I kind of understand it. We got to Calgary (3 hr trip from the ranch) for chemo, then the WBC were too high to do chemo. The vet prescribed AB to bring the WBC down, with the idea that they might be high if they were fighting an infection, in which case AB can lower the WBC. She reasoned that we couldn't sit in Calgary for one week waiting for them to come down on their own. They did drop enough by the next morning to do the chemo, but I suspect they would have come down overnight anyway - the previous few days had lots of exertion and stress for Tazzie plus it was likely a rebound effect. If I had lived in Calgary, perhaps she would not have prescribed the AB.
I withheld the K9 omega last night and this morning and the stool stiffened up, so the omega appears to be the culprit. Next time, I'll try the other brand (human grade) and introduce it more slowly. As I said, he consumed lots of fish oil in the past without a problem.
Tomorrow morning we meet our new vet, a general vet with an interest in oncology. We will need an oncologist from afar to oversee things, I believe. I hope and think this will go well, and I hope it is not hard for her to follow a chemo-protocol set up by someone else.
Tazzie 2 might be pushing his limits - rather than walk down his ramp tonight, he spotted my nice neighbour and then jumped off the side (from about 3 feet high) this evening. Do you see dogs injure their remaining legs by this type of overuse? The nice neighbour's response was 'he can't do that - I'll have to build some sides to the ramp'.
Susan & T2
Tazzie said:
Tazzie 2 might be pushing his limits – rather than walk down his ramp tonight, he spotted my nice neighbour and then jumped off the side (from about 3 feet high) this evening. Do you see dogs injure their remaining legs by this type of overuse?
Jumping in here...although that's a huge worry for front leg tripawd pawrents, we haven't see that happen here a whole lot, but jumps from high places is definitely something to try to avoid if you can.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
No major news here, but just thought I'd wrap up the runny fish story. I put Tazzie on human grade salmon oil 1&1/2 days ago, which I previously purchased for him, and so far things have remained solid – no sign of the runs as occurred immediately after the last two tries on K9 Omega (I continue to keep him on K9 Immunity). Hopefully things will remain intact as we increase the dose.
And today I just tried the Fortiflora recommended by Jerry and Pam – thanks for the suggestion!! He has been licking (presumably salivating) a bit, for no obvious reason, so maybe this will help. In fact, I have not noticed that behaviour today.
We have a LONG way to go in the diet and supplement department. I just wish someone would come to my house, give me a box, and say “here, feed Tazzie this”.
Susan & Tazzie 2
1 Guest(s)
