Caring for a Three Legged Dog or Cat
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Hi,
I hope it's okay to ask questions regarding my current, non-Tripawd dog here. I trust the advice and judgement of this community so much that I can't think of anywhere else to turn!
I'm looking for a grain-free , potato-free kibble for my dog, Seven. He's an 11 year old American Pit Bull Terrier, and weighs about 80 lbs right now but needs to gain...a lot...close to 10 lbs. he was very thin when he came to live with me about 3 months ago. I was about to start him on EVO, but they had all the recalls, so I tried another very high quality brand. He was doing great on this food, gained to almost his ideal weight. But, one morning I opened a new bag of the food and within hours he was violently ill. He went into liver failure from ingesting either a toxin or a strong bacteria. He's better now, but lost a lot of weight when he was sick and needs to put it back on. I'm afraid to go back to the brand of food he was on when he became sick because I'm pretty certain he didn't ingest anything else, and the company has been completely unhelpful in providing me with testing information for the food other than insisting that their food absolutely could not have been the problem and they haven't even asked if Seven is okay. I started him on Nutrisca as he was recovering from this illness, but he's doing a lot of burping and isn't gaining the weight back as well as on the other food.
I spoke to the owner of the store where I buy Seven's food, and he suggested I try the EVO, that all the problems are cleared up and he has no concerns about using it. So, what do all of you think? Is anyone currently using EVO? Does anyone have any other suggestion?
Thank you,
Carol
Carol, of course you can post questions about Seven, anytime!
Well, honestly, no, we haven't gone back to Evo but that's just because there are so many other grain-free options out there now. Not that Natura's acquisition by a large manufacturer hasn't come into my mind, which it has, but we just decided to try other foods over the last couple of years.
We always switch back and forth between Earthborn Holistic and Taste of the Wild, as well as various flavors of Honest Kitchen. Our Wyatt Ray and his notoriously picky belly always does well on either.
For an idea of the best grain-free dog foods that are out there, see this Dog Food Advisor article, "The Best-Grain-Free Dog Foods." The Dog Food Advisor has a great smart phone app you can use when you're in the pet food store and trying to decide what to get.
I hope this helps!
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Hi Carol-
My 3 quad pawds get Taste of the wild and I'm having to cut back a little as they are getting a little fluffy on it! 
I was feeding Shooter Orijen and really liked it, but it is pricier so that is the reason I went with the other for the rest of them. He really held his weight well on it even putting some on towards the end. I also feed grain free
canned food - Canidae for Shooter and By Nature for the others which is a very inexpensive yet highly rated food.
I never fed the Evo as the recalls started just as I was switching tothe grain free .
Luanne
Spirit Shooter was a Miniature Australian Shepherd who was diagnosed with a MCT and had a LF amp 1/28/13 at 13-1/2 years old.
Shooter crossed the Bridge on 8/28/13, his 7 month ampuversary and two weeks from his 14th birthday.
Sounds like yor Seven is o e luckh fella' to have you in his life! So glad as he heads into his "young senior" years he will be surrounded y your love.
I HAVE used EVO in the past and will not hesitate to use it again. In fact, I'm so glad you posted because I've been meaning to snare what the store owner told me aout the "recall" She is VERH caring and VERY well informed on any product she sells. She actually has a backfround (science/ chemist) in the testing thtgoes on in these "labs". And I dn't recall all she said about the "specifics".....and I will see her next week and update.....but, bbasically, she felt EVO was singled out and mis information was given to the pubic...ESPECIALY after the seco d VOLUNTARY recall. Gosh! K feel so bady that I'm posting this without the pertient facts
Anyway, for me, I feel very confident in their product based on her research and the knowlege of what went on in tnis particular case. They did the "right" thng even whe there just wasn't the evidence showing they needed to do a recall. The experience you are having clearly shows a company that does not appear to care. Are you c fortable sharing the name of the product?
Okay, I'll update more next week with the specifics. This is just a "take it for what it's worth" opinion and 2¢ thrown i !
So glad Seven is doing better! I know that was a scarey time for you.
Kee on packing on the punds Seven! Ice cream works too!
Sally and Happy Hannah
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
Thank you for the recommendations. If anyone else uses a food they and their dog love, I'd love to hear about it. I"ve checked Dog Food Advisor, but I'm hoping for some more personal recommendations. I'm looking for (I think) a grain free and potato free, which is hard to find. I was advised by a few "knowledgable" people who own and/or manage pet stores (these are two different stores, both small and non-chain) that to help Seven gain muscle not fat both grain and potato free is better. But, their advice may be wrong...I'd love to hear any other opinions on that.
Sally, the guy who owns the store where I buy dog food told me the same thing, that EVO was singled out unfairly. I'd appreciate any other information you can gather.
I can't be 100% sure the food caused Seven's illness, but since I opened a brand new bag that morning and hours later he was so sick, it seems the most likely source of the illness. Especially since he's never off leash when outside and really never unsupervised except when crated. To be honest, because the customer service was so uncaring and unwilling to share testing information, I don't feel comfortable using the brand anymore. What brand you ask? I don't want to be accused of making false accusations, but Seven was eating Orijen. I'm really sad about all of this because he was doing so well on the food.
Carol
Carol have you looked into Wysong? It's one of the most excellent foods available and sounds like what you're looking for. Pricey but worth it if it's in your budget.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
Hi Carol,
I just thought I would share a few thoughts here. I work in a high-quality, non-chain pet supplies store and have learned a lot about nutrition - and recalls - since I started with the company. California Natural and Evo are two of our biggest sellers, so we had our hands full when the lines were recalled. That being said, Natura, the company that makes Evo, is owned by P&G but manufactures in their own plant, separate from the plants where the other P&G pet products are made (which have had some subsequent recalls after the Natura products were back on the market). I have fed my dogs Evo in the past but haven't recently because they do tend to get a little . . . softer around the edges. I now have one on a carb-free (not just grain-free ) raw diet and my other one is the one who is much more prone to Evo related fluffiness so that is the only reason I don't rotate it into the mix. I do continue to recommend it to customers on a regular basis. It is still the lowest carb dry food on the market and probably what I would feed my carb-free guy if I had to go back to a kibble for him.
Do you remember if your bag of Orijen was floppy or rigid before you opened it? It is a weird question, I know, but I ask because their bags are usually fairly firm if not completely rigid when they come in on shipments. People often think the bags are vacuum sealed but they aren't, it just relates to the temperature of the kibble when it goes into the bag. Occasionally though, we will get a floppy bag which can indicate a poor seal on the bag that has allowed air into the bag - let me be clear, this is most definitely not a problem exclusive to Orijen, in fact, their bags tend to be infrequent culprits. That being said, if the bag wasn't sealed well, perhaps that could be the source of contamination - not the food itself. I totally understand your desire not to go back to that food because of the less than stellar quality of customer service it sounds like you received. The bottom line though is that Evo is still a great food and a very, very good option for putting weight back on a dog. Another good option you might want to check out if you are still hesitant about going back to Evo is the Nature's Variety Instinct line, it is grain free and I think most of them are potato free. The Chicken Raw Boost is 495 kcal per cup which looks to be the highest of that line, however it is still about 40 kcal per cup below Evo Chicken and Turkey.
Good luck!
I have gone back to feeding EVO and Calif Natural to my dogs without any problems. The recall was based on 1 bag of cat food that tested positive for Salmonella so the company voluntarily recalled all of the food that was manufactured on the same line. I doubt that your dog got sick from the food although the only way to prove it is to test a sample of the food.
Even Honest Kitchen has had a few recalls due to Salmonella but if you want a food that has no recalls that I know of you can try First Mate. They are based in Canada and have quite a few formulas.
Pam
Thank you to everyone for all the great information and suggestions. I really appreciate you taking the time for me and Seven. There are so many choices out there, and I learned about a few new ones from all of you. Personal recommendations mean so much more to me than just reading the ingredients. And hearing that EVO is still a good brand from people here, not just the owner where I buy the food (although I do trust his knowledge and judgement) has made me feel so much better.
Yes, the bag of Orijen I opened was floppy. It was the first bag I had like this...the guy at the store carried two bags to my car for me, so I didn't pick it up myself until I got home. I was concerned, and checked on Orijen's website only to find out that this is okay and not a concern, and even called the store and was told the same thing. I guess maybe I should have trusted my gut and insisted on an exchange, but at the time I decided to trust "the experts". Even so, because I don't feel comfortable with the response from Orijen, I don't know if I'll ever be able to use their brand again.
So, I need to do some thinking and choose a food by tomorrow! The bag I have is getting low and I want to be able to transition Seven over to whatever new food I choose for him!
Thank you!
Carol
Pam, you posted while I was typing my above post, so I didn't see it until now.
Seven's liver enzymes were extremely elevated. The vet said he was in liver failure, and wanted to hospitalize him. The internal med specialist said it was most likely from a toxin or strong bacteria. I had opened the new bag of food that morning, and about an hour or so after eating it Seven started to get sick. He's never unsupervised. If you don't believe it was the food, do you have any thoughts about what might have caused such a violent reaction/severe illness?
Thank you,
Carol
Boy Carol, you really started a good dialogue and lots of great i formation jas been posted!
Just goig back to the Orijen- Evo thing. That was really interesting what martial shared bout the "floppy" bag. I also thought it was a vaccum seal thing. It does make sense now that some sort of toxin "could" have gotten in the bag. I just hate that their customer service was so uncarng and not helpful at all.
I did speak the the pet food "boutique" owner (yeah, all fairly pricey stuff but she really makes an effort to carry only the best lines) and got some more clarification, which others have already said in o e form or another.. Needless to say, Natura became fanatics about their testing...and realy already had been very diligent prior to this. Apparently the FDA kept on asking for recalls by just repeating the same report. Anyway, apparently Nutura/Evo just ended up recalling everything...all dry dog and cat, as the FDA was just going to co tnue to "put it out tere"repeating the same results as though they were new.
Anyway, she used to be a chemist and did product testing. Let me be clear, NOT on dog food, but she knows how the system works...especially for up and coming "newvies". She sited this case as an example on whatever they were testng at the time. One little teeny weeny micro siae so ething or other out of thosands showed a potential for "x". In tose cases, no credence is given because of size and "clarity" of all other samples. This fella' reported it as contaminated and forced a nice newsworthy "recall" on whatever the product was. Needless to say, all the independent testing the cmpany did disproving the reslts were to no avail...the damage had already been done.
Okay, I have no clue what just happened...because I jave such superior computer skills amd typing skills.....but somehow all my paragraphs and sentences got sort of out oforder. I dm't kow how and I can't really explain what I'm trying to say.....but you'll see the "syntax" (?) of thiks is out of order. But I think it may still make sense.
Can the FDA hack i to a coputer???
Now, again, all this is just in the 'for whatever it's worth" category and may have o basis whatsoever! However, I'm very mich a "for the u derdog or u derhuman" kind of person so I purchased a bag of EVO today!
Hope this makes sense.
Lots of love to all!
Sally andHapy Hannah
Okay, back to Evo. As mentioned by artial, there was ne bit of so ething fou d in ONE bag of cat food.....no others from any other samplings from same plant, same batch, etc.. Needless to say,
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
Sally,
Thank you for updating your information. And thank you for buying the EVO today! I did, too. And I feel much better about my decision knowing that you decided to buy it! Everyone who had used it said they're dogs get "too fluffy" on it, so I'm hoping it works for Seven, too. He needs a little fluff on his bones! I think he has a fast metabolism, lucky guy!
Thank you everyone for all your support and information! I'm so lucky to have all of you!
Carol
Carol, there are a lot of things that can drastically raise liver enzymes in dogs including mushrooms, lawn fertilizer, and some plants. There is a bacteria called Leptospirosis that also does this and dogs can get it from the water (there is a vaccine).
It usually takes at least a day for liver enzymes to elevate in response to a bacteria. How long was it between eating the food and the blood sample? If food is moldy then it can contain an aflatoxin which could be quite damaging to the liver but that is different than Salmonella. Salmonella usually causes mild GI symptoms such as vomiting or diarrhea but many dogs would not have any symptoms at all.
IV fluids and antibiotics will cure most cases of liver infection and even acute toxicities.
Pam
Pam,
The blood sample was taken just about 27 hours after Seven ate the food. But, he started showing symptoms of nausea about 1-2 hours after eating the food and progressively got over that day...he vomited a few times and became very lethargic, and his fever started that evening. The next morning, the day of the blood sample, he had bloody diarrhea and an extremely high fever of 104.2.
Do the elevated liver values cause the symptoms? Or could any of these symptoms have started first?
Of course I can't guarantee he didn't stick his nose in something on our walk the day before, but I didn't see him eat anything other than food that I gave him.
He was treated with fluids and antibiotics. At just over one week after starting treatment, his liver values were much better but still not normal. He goes back this week for a retest.
Thank you for all your help.
Carol
Do you still have any of the food? That seems like an extreme reaction but I guess it is possible. Did they test him for Lepto? The liver values should recover completely although it might take a few more weeks. Did they put him on milk thistle and/or SAM-E? These drugs can really help the liver recover from toxic insults. The brand name would be either denamarin or Zentonil.
Pam
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