Caring for a Three Legged Dog or Cat
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Charlie is an 8 year old Golden Retriever. Right front leg was amputated on 10/31/11 for a soft tissue sarcoma grade 2. Last week we noticed a hard pea-size lump on his back left inner leg just above his ankle. The lump did not feel soft like his cancer did and was movable where his cancer was fixed. Since his surgery, he was having problems with the pads on the foot we just found the lump on. About two weeks ago, we started using a boot to protect his pads and the boot does velcro over the area where we found the new lump. We brought him in this morning to do an aspirate of the lump and our vet was concerned about not getting an adequate sample to send out for histopathology. He recommended that with Charlie's history, we just remove the lump now and send it off to find out instead of it coming back positive and going through it again...worst case scenario. When he was removing the lump today, he said it was attached/or over a ligament so he couldn't get it all. My question is this...if it is a benign tumor that showed up virtually overnight, would it attach to a ligament. When he said that it was attached to a ligament, it made me think malignant. And what are the chances of Charlie having another soft tissue sarcoma so soon after his surgery on another ankle. The oncologist we met with before Charlie's amputation said it was highly unlikely. We're very nervous. Some people have mentioned keratinized hair follicle something or other. I know you cannot tell me what it is but, if it were that, would something like that attach to a ligament?
Thanks for any answers!
I don't know the chances, but in the 10 months I've been a member here, I've seen I think 2 other dogs who have had recurring cancers in limbs (not things like Maggie's secondary cancer or Gayle's oral melanoma but cancer that would require a second amputation). And in those 10 months, I've seen something like a zillion dogs have lumps aspirated that turned out to be lipomas, generally. My own dog is one of them.
Obviously it is very rare to have another cancer in a limb that would require a second amputation. And also obviously, this is a community that will likely hyper-focus on lumps and bumps (I don't think I will offend anyone with that statement). We have good reason to.
Have you read Rio's blog? If you want to read about various cancers popping up but not winning, you should. Rio is mortal, but damn is she tough. It might give you some short-term inspiration while you wait for the pathology report.
Shari
From abandoned puppy to Tripawd Warrior Dude, Dakota became one of the 2011 February Furballs due to STS. Our incredibly sweet friend lived with grace and dignity till he impulsively raced over the Bridge on 12-15-12.
Dakota's thoughtful and erudite blog is at http://shari.tr.....pawds.com/
Just wanted to remind you that Dr. Pam is on vacation, I think she gets home tomorrow.
Did the vet stain a sample? Mast cell cancer, which you mentioned in your other post, is very easy to identify that way. We always verify with full path, but in the 14 or so lumps we aspirated and stained they were all mast cell tumors (thats in two pugs).
Rio's mom and me have lots of experience with MCT's, and I can think of at least two pups who ad MCT'S as a second cancer, Isabelle, and Ajax (kazy55).
I hope we are getting ahead of ourselves. I know the wait is long to get results back.
Karen and the pugapalooza
Oh poor Charlie! When Pam gets back I'm sure she will have some thoughts to put your mind at ease.
Thanks for sharing your experience here Karen (and pointing out that of others'). You are definitely the MCT expert at Tripawds!
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
I didn't remember that Maggie's cancers were mast cell. You know, I never heard of that type of cancer till I found this place. And it seems really common. What's that about? Do mast cell cancers target certain breeds, certain other things, or is it an equal-opportunity offender? Between Maggie and Rio, I think that this awful thing has had a real run for its money. I've never heard of a couple of warriors like them before and have been impressed with how hard a small body (Maggie's) can fight. Anyone feeling a bit discouraged with what life throws at them could learn a lot by some of our tripawd warriors here. My leg's a bit sore? I'd better not tell that to Dakota. He'd give me a horrible case of stink-eye.
Shari
From abandoned puppy to Tripawd Warrior Dude, Dakota became one of the 2011 February Furballs due to STS. Our incredibly sweet friend lived with grace and dignity till he impulsively raced over the Bridge on 12-15-12.
Dakota's thoughtful and erudite blog is at http://shari.tr.....pawds.com/
For what it's worth...
My young lab, Kali, had a lump growing on her left back pastern. Having been through cancer with Tai I was horrified. I had the vet do a lumpectomy and when we got the path results it turned out to be a Calcium lump. Unusual for a dog of her age (18months), but not cancerous. It was hard to remove as it was very mobile and not attached to anything but still embedded within the inner structures of tendons, ligaments etc.
I think there are MANY causes of lumps and bumps. When we have been face to face with cancer it's hard not to assume its cancer every time. Keeping my fingers crossed for a non-cancer diagnosis.
Laura and Angel Tai
Tai – 9 yr old lab. Diagnosed Osteosarcoma Dec 18/09. Front right leg amputated Dec 21/09. Started chemo Jan 7/10. Lung mets discovered Sept 16/10. Valiant to the end on Oct 26/10 when cancer reappeared in a leg and we made the decision to set her free. Forever in my heart where not even cancer can take her from me.
It would be very rare for soft tissue sarcoma to come back in another leg. We do see other tumors that arise from ligaments or other structures in the joint. These would include nerve sheath tumors or hemangiopericytomas. Many of these are either benign or slow-growing so surgery and biopsy is the smartest thing to do. Lipomas typically do not attach to underlying deep tissues so that is less likely. Let us know when you get the biopsy results!
Pam
We just got the worst of news. Charlie's pathology came back as Soft Tissue Sarcoma Grade 1 Nerve Sheath Tumor, malignant. It said that they typically do not metastisize and are very slow to grow back but, do grow back. WE ARE DEVASTATED!!!
Our vet said it was attached to a ligament. Charlie is a very healthy 8 year old that has already had one leg amputated. What do we do now? We just watch it and wait for it to come back? Won't it be hard to tell with the scar tissue from the surgery? How many times can we re-open that area up to remove it? How big do we let it grow until we put him through this again? If we let it get too big, will it ulcerate? Aren't nerve sheath tumors typically painful?...or only if they get large enough?
I feel like someone just punched me in the stomach.
You have every right to feel gut-punched. That's pretty much what has happened. I'm so sorry this is now what you are forced to deal with. It is way too much, especially so soon. What was the advised next step from Charlie's vet? It sounds like you jumped on this right away so won't you be in the best possible position to treat this thing?
I re-read what Dr. Pam wrote in the reply above yours here. She does specificially mention nerve sheath tumors and says many of them are slow growing. I don't know anything about NSTs, but I do know you can get a lot of information about them here because you aren't alone in having to deal with one. Dr. Pam can advise you, other tripawd folks who've had them can tell you what their experiences were, and you can go into battle armed as much as possible.
As trite as it sounds, you have found a place that understands and you are in good company, since you certainly are not alone. Let us know what next step the vet is recommending, and I'll move over and let the experts arrive. But Charlie is on my mind and in my thoughts.
Shari
From abandoned puppy to Tripawd Warrior Dude, Dakota became one of the 2011 February Furballs due to STS. Our incredibly sweet friend lived with grace and dignity till he impulsively raced over the Bridge on 12-15-12.
Dakota's thoughtful and erudite blog is at http://shari.tr.....pawds.com/
dang it!
I don't have any eloquent words of wisdom but just wanted you to know I am sorry to hear it is bad news!
Keep fighting Charlie! Stay strong Charlie's peeps! I'll keep hoping for you!
I'm sorry for the bad news. Just when it seems things can't get worse. It's good that you are able to be composed enough to think of all of the right questions to ask. Perhaps write them down so you won't forget anything when you speak to your Vet. I suppose the bright side (I'm a glass half full person) is that it's slow growing?? Not much of an upside but...
I'll be thinking of you and Charlie. Sending pawsitive thoughts.
Laura and Angel Tai
Tai – 9 yr old lab. Diagnosed Osteosarcoma Dec 18/09. Front right leg amputated Dec 21/09. Started chemo Jan 7/10. Lung mets discovered Sept 16/10. Valiant to the end on Oct 26/10 when cancer reappeared in a leg and we made the decision to set her free. Forever in my heart where not even cancer can take her from me.
We also never had to deal with a recurring cancer, so don't have any advice or answers to your questions. Just want to echo what everyone has already said: try to stay strong, and we're keeping Charlie in our thoughts and sending positive thoughts your way.
I'm sorry you got this news- I know how devastating it is.
First- just like with the original diagnosis- take a deep breath. Charlie is in no immediate danger according to what you posted. He probably has to heal up from the tumor removal before you can do anything.
Second- find out what all your options are. How slow growing? Is it years? Is there a chemo that is available for this kind of tumor? Is radiation a possibility? Write all the options down with pros and cons for each.
Third- chose a path forward. Remember that it is all about quality for Charlie. We wasn't limping from this tumor, was he? Also remember that he has no idea that he is sick- he will become stressed because you are.
Remember what you have learned from the first cancer and amputation. How resilient Charlie is- how you made it through the tough times.
You get a little time to process all this too- I had sort of got used to Maggie's recurring mast cell tumors, and the other stuff that was going on. But the second cancer diagnosis was devastating- I think even harder than the first one. I remember breaking down in the parking lot at work when the vet called with the diagnosis.
Knowledge is power! We don't have a lot of control in these cancer battles, but I have found that I fell some sense of control when I understand what is going on and what my options are.
Karen and the pugapalooza
Nerve sheath tumors are very slow growing and many take years to come back (some never regrow at all). They are locally invasive which means that if they do come back it is usually in the same location rather than travelling to the lungs or other organs. I do not think that this is related to the other tumor. No other therapy is needed right now; you just have to monitor the site for recurrence. That is much better than synovial cell sarcoma!
Pam
Thanks for all the great words of wisdom! I talked to Charlie's vet today-the one that did the surgical excision. He told me that watching the area and re-excising it IF it came back is a sound plan. Given the tumor was a grade I and these soft tissue sarcomas are slow growing in nature anyway. We feel comfortable with that. Our poor guy just needs a break and some positive energy!!!
I talked to Charlie's oncologist about an hour ago. She had someone from New England Vet. Oncology there with her today and they were both completely shocked that Charlie got this diagnosis exactly two months out. She told me she has never seen this before (one dog getting another STS) and that the two soft tissue sarcomas are completely unrelated. This is not a met from the original cancer. She also talked to Charlie's vet prior to calling me back to find out what it looked like before he removed it. She also felt comfortable watching the area and waiting to see if it comes back. She told me we are not going to lose our Charlie!!! Our vet felt like he got "most" of it...not all because of it's location over a ligament.
If this comes back, we will re-excise the tumor and possibly explore metronomic chemo treatment or outpatient radiation therapy. Our guy has been through the ringer. He needs some rest and happiness! 2011 brought us some extreme challenges but, we only have room for pawsitive thoughts in 2012!!!
One thing that we have learned through all of this is that you cannot be diligent enough. These furry family members need 110% of our attention and care. Do not second guess a new growth. If you are questioning an area, bring your dog in and have them checked out. Charlie is an unfortunate example of this cancer coming back when everyone told us it wasn't possible.
Happy thoughts and a Happy New Year!!!
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