Caring for a Three Legged Dog or Cat
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The chuckster is eating well. Even helping himself ti thirds in the middle of the night. And adding a bit of kibble to the mix. Yay 
so we get that under control but hes started limping again. Hes back on his biphosphinate but doc has him off of deramaxx. And no replacement nsaid. Only pain control is tramadal every 8 hours. Thats the only meds he is on now. I can tell the tumor has gotten a little bigger. Though its not as big as before chemo. Yet.
with that said I'm not sure where to proceed from here. The iv protocol seemed to alleviate the pain quickly though he had had diahrea. Metronomic protocol seemed to be a big contributing contributing factor to his gi issues. Especially the palladia. Doc isn't a fan of radiation because of the weakening of the bone associated with it. Amp is always a possibility but we are still hesitant especially because he is weak following the weight loss. Arteminsinin isa is a possibility. Where would you you recommend buying it and what brand? im a little little hesitant with amazon because im concerned with the quality and integrity of the product. That may be irrational though. Im concerned with everything these days lol. Any thoughts? Minus his weight loss and limp hes in great spirits.
thanks,
lori and chuck
Oh gosh, I understand the delima of what to do next. It's so darn confusing. I think you are sot on aout NOT doi g anything that would cause all the previus issues he had. This is all about quality and he has already shown you what he doesn't like!
Could you do aprotocl eliminating tje palladia and using cytoxican? Or could you use smaller doses---or doses every other day? I have no clue....just throwing stuff oit there. Maybe, for now, you could make his tram. every six hours?
I've forgotten, do you have him n K9 immjnity or Apocaps ? Just another "tossing it ut there" kow a lot of peole here do use Arteminninissin (or however the heck you spellit)
It's imcredible how you've turned things sround for Chuck and having him feel so mch better! It mist be such a HUGE relief seenghim eating so heartiy:-)
Chow down Chuckster!! You're doig great!!
Sending love,
Sally and Happy Hannah
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
I do have him on power Mushrooms and essiac tea which I have been slowly reintroducing. That and omega 3 sppliment. Other than that nothing else besides pepsid and omazripale. (Prilosec).
Is the reasoning against amp his size? Honestly, if that were the main contraindication...I'd probably do the amp.
But that's just my opinion, for sure. For us, the main things were: A) pain control B) excising the cancer (or as much of it as possible) C) reducing the chance for "a traumatic incident" as our vet said. Amputation took care of all of those things, and even with the contraindications we had (arthritis, dysplasia, autoimmune disorder, age, size, etc...), it was the logical option for us. Out of those reasons, C) was by far and away the most frightening, and I am so glad not to have to worry about that for awhile (and am amazed that it hadn't happened already, after I saw the xrays).
"Let us think the unthinkable, let us do the undoable, let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all."
-Douglas Adams, Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency
"May I recommend serenity to you? A life that is burdened with expectations is a heavy life. Its fruit is sorrow and disappointment. Learn to be one with the joy of the moment."
-Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul
Yah his size is a big factor. He was 175 originally. Down to 155 now. The other reasons we are hesitant are:
he already bloated once in his life
1.. When he was a puppy. His stomach is tacked but hes still at risk for that happening again no matter what we do. Not that amping would cause it to Happen again. It's just another life risking condition that is always on the back of our minds.
2. Last year he had some issues with what the doc thought then were pinched nerves in his neck or shoulders where he couldn't lay down. Deramaxx helped that. But there was never conclusive results showing what really caused those issues.We are concerned the added strain on the remaining front end would aggrivate that.
3. He hasa very sketchy family history we have found through this journey. His brother from his litter has very bad arthritis and acl issues that they are having a really hard time controlling. along with dysplasia. His sister died of osteo about a month ago.
4. if we were to amp we'd want to do chemo and we are afraid with how he reacted to this round.
I guess bottom line is from the the start my husband and I said its more about quality than quantity. Granted these last few weeks were not quality. But the pain was mananged. Our aim really is to keep him as comfortable as possible even if that only only meant a few months. And for as many success stories we've heard with very large breeds weve heard scary ones too. When chuck was first evaluated by our onco he told us very blatantly that the standard of care is amp with chemo but that didnt mean it was right for us. He said he'd be willing to try but he was very hesitant about the outcome which led us to try the palliative approach. I guess our thoughts were if we got 3 or 4 or 5 months of pain controlled time with him without surgery we would rather that then risk amping going bad because we could always stop and reevaluate our next method. It's not too say we won't amp. But we are really concerned because chuck is a very emotional dog that reacts quite intensely to whatever stimuli (me included that stimulus ) he's also very very stubborn. If he doesn't want to do something. He won't. (Our fear; learning how to walk when he's in the pain of recouping) with that said hes veryyy strong. even now. Just today he saw a dog he wanted to say hi to and damned near dragged me accross the street and down the road to do so. Lol so we are very torn.
It's possible that our fears are irrational. I'll admit that. And truthfully if a vet saw him and said, lets amp, we would. But I don't know what's the right thing anymore I guess. I hope all that makes sense lol
If you are looking at quality over quantity... the two big things that jump out at me would be the list of fears are not positives (as in, they are maybes, not absolutes), whereas it's pretty well accepted that the pain of oseto is difficult to control solely with meds.
No bloat issues with us, and we are only a large breed, not giant...but I can tell you, I have a supremely stubborn dog. He is 100% akita in his mindset, and when he's decided something is on the no-fly list, so it remains until HE decides it is acceptable again. For some things, say...eating...that only lasted a couple of months (well, most of it). For others, say, weed whippers running three blocks over, it became a lifetime obsession. Also: he's slightly nutters. Borderline senile and TOTALLY OCD/Anxious (we have some very definite fear triggers).
So I totally get you there 
I don't think your fears are irrational--I think they are normal and grounded in reality. You just have to do a sort of cost-benefit analysis of guarantees, probables, possibles, unlikelys, and negatives and choose what works for you. We had a lot against us, but chose amp (amp alone, no chemo), b/c like I said, I didn't feel meds would control the pain well enough, and b/c I didn't want an "incident" that would be horrific. We chose to roll the dice, gambling that our fears (Sam's personality, his other health issues, etc.) were less of a reality than some of the other possibilities.
There's no one right answer--I don't think even the most progressive vet would say there is the exactly right choice staring you in the face. You just have to do what is right for you--and by extension for Chuck. Trust in yourself, for sure. <3
"Let us think the unthinkable, let us do the undoable, let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all."
-Douglas Adams, Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency
"May I recommend serenity to you? A life that is burdened with expectations is a heavy life. Its fruit is sorrow and disappointment. Learn to be one with the joy of the moment."
-Douglas Adams, The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul
So as I was reading this chuck was cleaning himself and let out a yelp. Hes never done that. In examining him I found what looks to be skin tags in between his toes on the back paw creases. Honestly if this is mets in a back leg we are going to have to put him down. If it's not and we have some sort of fracture we'll amp. My head hurts. Doc had me give him an extra dose of tramadal to get him Through the night and I have an appt tomorrow first thing. If it gets worse (he's ok now) I'll bring him to er.
Ugh 
How did Chuck get on at his appointment?
I am so sorry you and chuck are going through this.
I had a giant breed called Porthos who also had other health problems as well as the bone cancer (front right leg)
We originally were not going to amputate, we tried palmidronate but his leg just got worse until the pain was too much. We had to decide if we should amputate or euthanize.
Porthos, like your Chuck, was so stubborn! I believe that stubbornness helped him with his recovery after amputation.
I had contacted the Colorado State University (you can fill out a form on there website) for advice as I had heard they had lots of experience with giant breed tripawds, they were amazing through our whole process even up to Porthos' final days.
Porthos did very well on 3 legs, walked the same day as his surgery. Still managed to pull me over when taking him for a walk! He survived 7 months post diagnoses and 5 hlf months post amputation, and those 5 months were amazing, I even forgot he had cancer.
We didn't do Chemo because we lived far from our vet through very bad roads and Porthos would leap around in the back of the car! I was terrified he would hurt one of his remaining legs.
So we ended up treating him with artimisinin, Essiac, the cancer diet & k9 immunity. Here are a couple of links if you head isn’t spinning with the stress of it all (I know how you feel).
http://pets.gro.....nd_cancer/ this group are treating their dogs different cancers with artimisinin and butyrex, they can help you with suggested dosage. There is also a dog on the site called Penny who was only treated with natural remedies and did very well.
I got mine from http://www.hepa.....oducts.htm & http://www.holl.....sinin.html
http://dogmu.co.....page_id=13 This is a blog about a giant breed called Mukki whose pawrents treated him with artimisinin and other natural herbs. He survived 12 months post diagnoses with no amputation.
This is a story about a saint Bernard called Pythagoras, he survived almost 2hlf years post diagnoses and amputation, when he died (at the age of 10) there wasn’t a trace of cancer in his body http://www.csua.....pythagoras
These, and the giant breed stories on Tripawds really helped me to find the strength to go with Porthos on this journey.
There is also a group on yahoo called bonecancer dogs.
And of course the amazing people on Tripawds, I honestly don’t know what I would have done without their kindness.
Please try and take some time for yourself if you can. I know how traumatic this time is. Trying to make such a big emotional decision is a nightmare. I got some rescue remedy that I would keep nearby encase I started to get upset and I would take Valerian to help me get some sleep. Chuck needs you healthy now!
Im thinking of you and sending positive energy,
I will tell Angel Porthos to watch over your Chuck.
Amanda
Angel Porthos, Pyrenean Mastiff, 7 years old Os front right leg, DX 18 May 2012, Amputation 14 June 2012, Hip Dysplasia, Two TPLO surgeries. Is now somewhere over the rainbow, 21 November 2013.
Amanda....just wanted to hijack Chuck's post a moment and acknowledge you for sharing such valuable info. It's helpful to all! Especialy good info. o supplements!
Porthos is still living large and touching lives through you:-)
Sally and Happy Hannah
Lots of love,
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
thank you so much for your input. I really appreciate it. amputation is definitely not out of our game plan. I was pretty worried with what I saw yesterday that there might be growths to a different leg which would have put us in the position of not being able to amputate. and thank god so far that doesn't seem to be the case. I think I may have actually talked to Pythagoras's owners via bonecancerdogs group? It is GREAT to see saints doing so well with amputation.
an update on chucks case is that he did not have a fracture, though being off his nsaid and growth of the tumor seemed to cause his pain. doc wants to try one more round of a modified iv chemo approach to see if we can shrink the tumor again and not leave chuck with as many stomach issues as before. (no palladia this time either) and if we come across those again we are done completely with the palliative approach and will most likely opt to amputate at that point if we are able too. I know it is probably confusing why we have not amputated yet. and why again we chose not to again after so many issues. I guess in part it is under the advise of our current onco, my fears, compounded with just everything.
I for sure will be referring back to all of the above information, just as sally said, it is super useful not just for me but anyone that comes across this post. thank you so much!
in the meantime, fingers crossed we get some relief from all of this in one way or another.
thanks again!
Lori and Chuck
Keep us updated
Barret was diagnosed with Hemangiopericytoma May 16, 2013. Front left leg/scapula/pectoral muscle was amputated on June 11, 2013 and we've never looked back. Follow our story on http://barret.t.....pawds.com/ and read my column on That Pet Blog
I would consider adding an NSAID again but maybe try meloxicam since it is pretty easy on the stomach. If you are not going to amputate I would look for a holistic vet and consider Bone Stasis powder and continue gabapentin and tramadol for pain.
If it was me I would still consider amputation. I was certainly concerned with Tazzie's size and prior knee surgeries plus she had a history of liver disease which did flare up post-amputation. I feared cancer pain and fracture more so in my mind that was worse so I went ahead with surgery. You and your family can weigh the pros and cons of surgery versus palliative care.
Pam
Lori, you are being so proactive and I kw that has to feel good.
Please know this------no one here will judge you for ANY decison you make for Chuck! You know Chuck andyou know the dynamics of you and your family
Chuck has "challenges" specific to Chuck and it is perfectly understandable why you may be hesitant to amputate. I think you alreasy know from being on the site, recovery MAY or may NOT be reallh rough on big dogs And watchin them go theough that is realy, really rough on the human Yoj already have a hint what that is like. Amputation is NOT for every dog so please don't beat yourself up if you decide on a different route!
Pothos gave you such great links and info. You have a lot to digest.
Speaking of "digestion".....Chuckster still getting stronger and still has a renewed interest in eating?
Keep it chunked down. For now, you've got a plan to proceed with the reduced chemo and apparently feel reassured about it......or as reassured as you can be about anything on this journey!!
As alays, look forward to more updates and sendingmyou and Chuck all sorts of love,
Sally and Happy Hannah
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
Oh yes, Tazziedog just reminded me that Porthos was on meloxicam too.
and like benny55 said, no one here will judge you, you are being an amazing pawrent and you obviously love Chuck so much.
We are here for you.
Amanda & Angel Porthos x
Angel Porthos, Pyrenean Mastiff, 7 years old Os front right leg, DX 18 May 2012, Amputation 14 June 2012, Hip Dysplasia, Two TPLO surgeries. Is now somewhere over the rainbow, 21 November 2013.
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