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Elevated BUN and kidney issues; pain management
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Virginia
Member Since:
14 March 2014
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5 June 2014 - 7:01 am
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Dr. Pam and others, thanks so much for being here and sharing your knowledge. I’d welcome your thoughts on BUN levels being elevated and possible kidney issues.

Snapshot: Lexie is very young-acting almost 14 y.o. 27lb mix; aggressive STS front leg tumor*; amp 4/10; lung mets present and growing but aren’t out of control yet; some short course oral chemo (Cytoxan; later Leukeran – details in signature) but onco not convinced it helped.

Post amp: She developed arthritis and hip issues, and she is having physical discomfort due to a lot of stairs in our home and being a front leg Tripawd, and still wanting to go up and down/in and out, etc.

On the plus side: She still loves life most of the time thanks to meds. She still attempts to chase squirrels, is eager to go for walks, loves going outside to the back yard, going to the dog park, etc. (and when people meet her they can’t believe she’s 14).

We’re doing physical therapy at home and seeing a PT vet monthly. Except for some muscle spasms and breakthrough pain she is still enjoying life very much with the help of meds. Her eating and drinking is normal.

Latest blood work:

CBC: no anemia, platelets fine and white cells normal range.
     Ht 42.9%, plt 390K, N 6.76K
Chemistry panel: elevation of BUN, concern that is is caused by NSAID: renal disease vs GI irritation, risk for possible intestinal perforation if GI ulceration worsens- recommend stopping Rimadyl and giving he carafate to help her intestines heal. LIver values and creatinine fine.
     Glu 85, TO 5.9, ALb 3.5, Glob 2.4, Tbil 0.1, GGT 1, ALT 29, ALP 28, AST 25, BUN 54 (high, but better than last month), Creat 1, Phos 3.4, Mg 2.3, Ca 10, Na 146, K 4.8, Cl 113

Current meds:

Gabapentin 100 mg 2 occasionally 3x/day; Tramadol 50mg 2-3x day (sometimes half-dose); Rimadyl 25mg 2x.day; Pepcid 10mg 1x day; Trilostane (for Cushing's) 55 mg 2x/day; Yunnan Baiyo herb as needed; K9 Immunity Plus; GlycoFlex III for arthritis (1/2 tablet).

Before the BUN news I was going to ask about adding Robaxin for muscle issues given her spasms (if she didn’t hate needles I’d consider acupuncture, but she’s a total needle phobe).

Her Cushing’s disease, along with pancreatitis which has been controlled with low fat diet, are both well-managed. Post amp we started her on grain-free high protein low fat kibble plus some chicken or turkey.

Questions:

*Which of the meds and/or supplements are most likely linked to high BUN?

*Should I switch to low-fat moderate protein in the grain free kibble since I'm adding chicken/turkey?

*How worried should I be about kidney function or other issues with her numbers– and is the fact that the BUN went down a bit from last month something of a positive?

*Given her arthritis, hips, etc., how would you prioritize which meds to consider swapping out if you think it’s necessary? And should I add Sucralfate/Carafate back in for possible GI issues given the meds she's on?

*How is Robaxin processed, and is it advisable to add given current scenario?

*Any other pain med suggestions? Alternative therapies?

*Should I consider adding Apocaps since we're not pursuing other chemo options at this stage?

*Re. further testing/eval -- should I follow up with her Internal Med vet? Primary care vet? (We won’t be seeing our onco as often since we’re in the palliative stages.)

*Are there other things I should be concerned about? Are there things you would consider exploring, tests you would do, etc. if Lexie was your dog?

Obviously I want us to enjoy as much time as we have left together with good pain management and not put her through more tests unless they're necessary. On the flip side, I don't want to compromise her overall health and vital functions like the kidneys.

Thanks very much for your wisdom and insight.

Deb and Lexie

Deb and Angel Lexie* Diagnosed at age 13. Tried radiation first; wish we had amputated upon diagnosis (even with lung mets). Joined Club Tripawd April 2014 & Lexie loved life on 3 legs! Advice: Start physical therapy as soon as your vet clears it, especially hydrotherapy if available :-) See Lexie pics here.  

On The Road


Member Since:
24 September 2009
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5 June 2014 - 9:45 am
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Boy I know nothing about this Deb but I know I'll be watching this to learn from it. {{{{hugs}}}}}

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

Virginia
Member Since:
14 March 2014
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7 June 2014 - 12:04 pm
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Thanks, Rene...love that there is so much knowledge and caring here!

Deb and Angel Lexie* Diagnosed at age 13. Tried radiation first; wish we had amputated upon diagnosis (even with lung mets). Joined Club Tripawd April 2014 & Lexie loved life on 3 legs! Advice: Start physical therapy as soon as your vet clears it, especially hydrotherapy if available :-) See Lexie pics here.  



Member Since:
22 August 2008
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8 June 2014 - 8:04 pm
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An elevated BUN does not necessarily mean kidney issues especially with such a normal creatinine value.  Has your vet done a urine test?  If the urine specific gravity is over 1.040 then kidney dysfunction is unlikely.  If the urine is dilute with protein leakage then I would be more concerned.  GI bleeding is possible although the HCT is not low at all (often less than 30% with slow GI bleed).

If your dog can't take an NSAID you could consider herbal treatments such as Body Sore but you will need to see a holistic vet for that as well as acupuncture (your PT vet might offer this).

I have not used Apocaps but I did use Power Mushrooms to help keep my Tazzie's cancer at bay.

Robaxin can be tried but often does not seem to do much for many dogs.  A lot of neurologists prefer diazepam.

Pam

Virginia
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14 March 2014
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8 June 2014 - 9:39 pm
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Thanks so much, Pam. My Internal Med vet is back this week, so I'll ask her about a urine test. Question: what are the symptoms of a slow GI bleed?

Lexie has been having that periodic breakthrough pain that I chalked it up to muscle spasms, but now that I think about the timing it does tend to happen more after meals, and there is less frequency now that she's mostly back on the Carafate. Would a slow GI bleed cause periodic pain to the point of a making her cry out? It's almost akin to phantom limb pain...she'll be lying down and all of a sudden will yelp and get up and move away from where she was (almost like something had poked her).

My onco suspected the NSAID as the culprit for higher BUN but said it could be other things too, and I think keeping her on the NSAID is important for comfort reasons at least until we see more alarm bells in terms of other levels. 

Given all of that, how often would you recommend blood panels and rechecks? She *hates* needles and blood draws, so I want to balance being smart and doing what's required medically to keep her safe, but also consider her needle issues.

Deb and Angel Lexie* Diagnosed at age 13. Tried radiation first; wish we had amputated upon diagnosis (even with lung mets). Joined Club Tripawd April 2014 & Lexie loved life on 3 legs! Advice: Start physical therapy as soon as your vet clears it, especially hydrotherapy if available :-) See Lexie pics here.  

Orrtanna Pa.
Member Since:
25 January 2014
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8 June 2014 - 11:22 pm
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I was told to look for black tarry poop and vomiting.Ty had some fresh blood in his stool once.and would throw up mucousy water.He got terribly lethargic and acted really ill. This all happened before his diagnosis. We are still not totally sure that is what was happening. He was switched from Rimadyl to Pred to Deramaxx with no wash out. I have learned so much this year. He was sort of whimpery like he was in some kind of pain. The Carafate helped but took a few days. Ty had urine tests also to check kidney function. This was when he was on the Amicacin for MRSA . Non invasive and quick unless you count chasing him around for the sample. Don't know much else. Keep us posted on how she is doing. Lori and TY

TY GUY, Best Black Lab ever! Diagnosed  and had amp in January, 2014. Kicked MRSA's butt. Earned his angel wings on April 16, 2014. Run Free my boy and don't forget a shoe. Ty is a proud member of the " April Angels". Ty sent us Daryl, a Tripawd rescue in Sept. of 2016. Daryl is 5 +or -. We are also Pawrents to Chandler, a Border Collie mix who is 15 and 1/2, Lucy, a Corgi who is 7, 2 minis, 2 horses, and a feisty cat named Zoe. Zoe had a non skeletal Osteosarcoma removed in July 2015. No Chemo, she was at least 16. She is going strong although she is now completely blind. She is now close to 20 and her hobbies are eating and sleeping in front of her personal heater. 

Orrtanna Pa.
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25 January 2014
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8 June 2014 - 11:24 pm
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Sooty, I am not a vet. Not sure if I was allowed to post here or not. Oooops! Just had the intestinal thing happen to us is all. Lori and Ty

TY GUY, Best Black Lab ever! Diagnosed  and had amp in January, 2014. Kicked MRSA's butt. Earned his angel wings on April 16, 2014. Run Free my boy and don't forget a shoe. Ty is a proud member of the " April Angels". Ty sent us Daryl, a Tripawd rescue in Sept. of 2016. Daryl is 5 +or -. We are also Pawrents to Chandler, a Border Collie mix who is 15 and 1/2, Lucy, a Corgi who is 7, 2 minis, 2 horses, and a feisty cat named Zoe. Zoe had a non skeletal Osteosarcoma removed in July 2015. No Chemo, she was at least 16. She is going strong although she is now completely blind. She is now close to 20 and her hobbies are eating and sleeping in front of her personal heater. 

Virginia



Member Since:
22 February 2013
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9 June 2014 - 7:51 am
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very informative posts!

Deb, why omce phantom pain ruled out? Symptoms sure sound like it.

And I kow you already probavly know this, but my vet always liked me to bring him a "fresh catch" catch from her first morning sample (as just a slight perferamce) and to try and get it after she'd been peeing a few seconds....kknd of in the middle of the flow.

And yeah, Lori, I think dark, tarry stools can i dicate vlood....but ditto with you...I'm no vet either!

Thank goD for Dr. Pam though!

Love to all.

Sally and Happy Hannah

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!



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22 August 2008
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10 June 2014 - 4:14 pm
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GI bleeding should not cause pain in most cases.  You would expect no symptoms other than dark, tarry stool or vomit.  Some dogs might show lack of appetite.  My dog Kona took an NSAID for years (Deramaxx) due to hip dysplasia and had no symptoms but one night I came home to dark black vomit.  That dog was still eating!  She did fine after some sucralfate and Prilosec but I did have to change her NSAID and give her misoprostol to prevent further GI issues.

I typically recheck kidney dogs every 3-6 months but that would depend on the urinalysis results.

Pam

Virginia
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14 March 2014
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29 June 2014 - 3:12 pm
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Thanks again, Pam. Just a quick update...my Internal Medicine vet said she wasn't worried about the BUN level given everything else being okay; just to watch for GI issues and any changes to bathroom habits. I'm continuing to give her Pepcid (famotodine generic) 15 minutes before meals and Sucralfate/Carofate once a day just as a precaution.

My PT did prescribe Robaxin for the additional compensatory pain and occasional spasms and it has really seemed to help. I've cut back on the Tram a bit day to day, but I increase that and the Gaba and the Robaxin if she's had a lot of activity (like after the Va Tripawds gathering smiley).

Deb and Angel Lexie* Diagnosed at age 13. Tried radiation first; wish we had amputated upon diagnosis (even with lung mets). Joined Club Tripawd April 2014 & Lexie loved life on 3 legs! Advice: Start physical therapy as soon as your vet clears it, especially hydrotherapy if available :-) See Lexie pics here.  

Virginia



Member Since:
22 February 2013
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29 June 2014 - 3:51 pm
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Oh good update Deb!

And yeah, to say LEXIE had some "activity" at the Tripawd Pawty is an understantement!! That girl played full out and flirted with younger men the whole time!! You ARE a ROCK STAR LEXIE!!
Can't remeber kf I posted that video "whupping up" on Tannder or not! If I can find it, it is soooooo worth repeating!

Love to you Deb and sweet Lexie!

Sally and Happy Hannah and Myrtle too!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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