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To neuter or not to neuter that is the question
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Member Since:
29 July 2014
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7 August 2014 - 2:28 pm
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I need advice with out this becoming heated.  I am a firm believer that spay / neuter is not the answer and should not be a blanket all dogs/ cats ect get done.  I also have WORKING dogs that I need to
A) remain thin
B) retain drive.

The vet is not pushing neuter at all but I know that being put under is NOT a great thing and the least amount of times an animal is put under the better.  Quixote had one surgery all ready and now has to have the rear leg amputated.  Should I get him neutered at the same time? I want a pup out of him and I know others that do as well.  This dog is amazing for workability.

He is 2.5 years old, strictly raw fed and has minimal vaccines.  He is a working dog, was supposed to be my stud dog.  I know that neutering him will make it really hard to keep the weight off, and keeping him intact may help speed healing.  He has NO behavior issues that neutering would help.  He does NOT wander (in fact if he is not touching me he is crying and fussing).

Argh I dont want to EVER have to put him under again, and neutering would help prevent that.  But it has its downsides too!

Orrtanna Pa.
Member Since:
25 January 2014
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7 August 2014 - 3:13 pm
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I am also questioning this for my next dog. I want a male and am concerned about the possibility that neutering can increase cancer risk. This being said, I do have an appt. made for my. Corgi, who is female. I don't want to breed her and she is a marker. Also, I think females can have more problems as older dogs if they are unspayed. Added to that that they can get pregnant and I had my answer for her. The biggest fear with a male is roaming and that does not seem to be a problem with your guy. I am not a vet and I am certainly not an expert on any of this, just thought I would share my thoughts on the subject. My next dog will probably come to me already neutered, as I am planning to probably adopt from a shelter. I had a female Aussie, Border. Collie mix that I never had fixed. She only had 2 heats in her life ( that were notivable anyways) and was in a fenced yard. We never had any trouble with male dogs coming around and she lived to the age of 14. Lori and Ty

TY GUY, Best Black Lab ever! Diagnosed  and had amp in January, 2014. Kicked MRSA's butt. Earned his angel wings on April 16, 2014. Run Free my boy and don't forget a shoe. Ty is a proud member of the " April Angels". Ty sent us Daryl, a Tripawd rescue in Sept. of 2016. Daryl is 5 +or -. We are also Pawrents to Chandler, a Border Collie mix who is 15 and 1/2, Lucy, a Corgi who is 7, 2 minis, 2 horses, and a feisty cat named Zoe. Zoe had a non skeletal Osteosarcoma removed in July 2015. No Chemo, she was at least 16. She is going strong although she is now completely blind. She is now close to 20 and her hobbies are eating and sleeping in front of her personal heater. 

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7 August 2014 - 3:43 pm
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I wish there was an easy answer or a crystal ball so I could see what would happen if I dont and if I do.  

Westminster, MD
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7 August 2014 - 4:11 pm
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Trust me, I am no expert with this topic either, but I am very intrigued by the recent studies possibly showing a link to early neutering and cancer......my own experience with this is just with the female Labs that I have had to date.

My first Lab Duchess, was not spayed till she was 5 years old and had gone through 4 heats.....back then, I don't think there was a definite connection quite yet to breast cancer in un spayed females, (not sure anyway), but she lived to be almost 16 yo, and did die of cancer, but not breast cancer. My next two Lab girls, Maggie and Polly were both spayed at 6 months, both ultimately died much younger than Duchess from hemangiosarcoma, at ages 11 and 9. My current Lab pup Pearl, is now almost 18 months old and not spayed yet; she was diagnosed with what is called, juvenile vulva, which her mother had, and her 1/2 sister from a previous litter also had, and her sister just had surgery for this 2 weeks ago. Usually, putting them through a first heat, will correct this problem and is also supposed to prevent possible urinary problems in the future. This also applies to females without this condition.......I hate not spaying her, but I do think this will correct her problem, and she will then be spayed after her first heat, whenever that happens, because it hasn't happened yet.

All this may just be coincidence with my girls, but I also know of many friends with female pups that always let them go through a first heat on a regular basis, for other various reasons (breeding is not one, though).

I think it's all a crap shoot in life, no matter what for the most part, but I do pay attention to studies that seem to have a strong, and connecting basis on certain things.

Bonnie & Angel Polly

P.S. The one thing I have heard from working in my veterinary hospital, is that un-neutered males have a greater risk of developing testicle cancer as they get older, so that is a bad thing, but I also think osteosarcoma is way worse. So if it is a trade off of sorts, I'd rather deal with the testicle cancer than osteo.......maybe......


Member Since:
16 October 2012
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7 August 2014 - 5:19 pm
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Well, I just had Bosch neutered at 8 because of prostrate problems.  The girls we are going to spay after their 1st heat per our oncologist's advice.  Its a matter of opinion.  There has been a study done and my vet just brought this up (I had already read the article) but there is a correlation to cruciate tears etc with neuter. 

Like Polly said with cancer its all a crapshoot.  That is all I have to say

 

Michelle & Angel Sassy

sassymichelle-sm.jpg

Sassy is a proud member of the Winter Warriors. Live long, & strong Winter Warriors.
sassysugarbear.tripawds.com
07/26/2006 - Sassy earned her wings 08/20/2013

05/04/2006 -  Bosch, Sassy's pal, earned his wings 03/29/19  fought cancer for 4 months.

"You aren't doing it TO her, you are doing it FOR her. Give her a chance at life."

Los Angeles, CA
Member Since:
13 June 2013
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7 August 2014 - 6:35 pm
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WOW.... I had no clue about any of this. Part of rescuing a dog, you don't really get a choice. I guess I just always made the assumption you should 'fix' your dog. I've never lived with a dog that has gone through heat. We've always had girl dogs.

Shelby was obviously spayed when I got her (age of that unknown). Jasper may have been through one heat - she is over a year and was spayed 2 months before I got her (after she was over a year). What age do females usually go through heat? Is it possible Jasper had babies since she wasn't spayed before she left her hoarding house? 

Between that and the info I read about vaccinations here ... I'm so confused. It seems everything we used to know has changed ...

 

thank you all for keeping the dialogue going on these topics!

Alison with the Spirit of Shelby fur-ever in her heart (and little Jasper too)

Shelby Lynne; Jack Russell/Shiba Inu mix. Proud member of the April Angels of 2014.

October 15, 2000 to April 8, 2014

Our story: Broke rear leg in June 2013 - non-conclusive results for cancer so leg was plated and pinned. Enlarged spleen in September 2013 and had it removed and was diagnosed with Hemangiosarcoma and started chemotherapy. Became a Tripawd January 8th, 2014 and definitive Hemangiosarcoma diagnosis. Three major surgeries in 7 months and Shelby took them all like a champ only to lose her battle to cancer in her brain. We had 8 amazing extra months together and no regrets. #shelbystrong #loveofmylife

Member Since:
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7 August 2014 - 6:48 pm
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I am a strong advocate for natural ... I crate and rotate when the girls are in heat. My boy does not have cancer and is 2.5 years old so we are blessed that way.  He did have an injury which is now dictating we remove the injured leg. If he wasnt going to be put under again I wouldnt even consider neutering him at this stage at all.  I wish things were cut and dried.

On The Road


Member Since:
24 September 2009
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7 August 2014 - 8:42 pm
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If I had to do it over again with Wyatt Ray , I would not neuter for the reasons outlined in this section of Ted Kerasote's website.

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

Member Since:
15 December 2012
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7 August 2014 - 11:12 pm
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Hi,

Funny how this came up as I have a 7 month old puppy and normally I would have had his balls off as soon as they had dropped as I am a strong advocate of spay and neuter and not adding to our dog over population problem. But then I read up on the controversy about early spay/neuter. Having had a dog die at 6 yrs old of OSA I am open to reasons why our dogs are getting cancer at a very high rate. So I have been reading up on Kerasote's research and others and have a feeling there may be some connection. I, like Bonnie would rather deal with testicular cancer than OSA. In the meantime Hank is humping the pillow and we are keeping a close watch on him. Do they have dog ladies of the night and doggie ho houses?

Penny and Frustrated Hank

Westminster, MD
Member Since:
31 August 2013
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8 August 2014 - 7:23 am
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penny4weims said

Hi,

Funny how this came up as I have a 7 month old puppy and normally I would have had his balls off as soon as they had dropped as I am a strong advocate of spay and neuter and not adding to our dog over population problem. But then I read up on the controversy about early spay/neuter. Having had a dog die at 6 yrs old of OSA I am open to reasons why our dogs are getting cancer at a very high rate. So I have been reading up on Kerasote's research and others and have a feeling there may be some connection. I, like Bonnie would rather deal with testicular cancer than OSA. In the meantime Hank is humping the pillow and we are keeping a close watch on him. Do they have dog ladies of the night and doggie ho houses?

Penny and Frustrated Hank

Penny,
I woke up this morning, logged on here, and found this.......I am sorry poor Hank has a bit of frustration, but I have to admit, I got a huge laugh out of your post!! I have never owned a male pup so unfortunately I don't have any advice. I have a little dog that I pet sit for that was neutered a little late, at almost a year old, and he still marks everywhere, and tries jumping on my Pearl every time they play together. Drives me nuts, but I guess he is gonna do what he is gonna do.

Hopefully someone here may have some ideas to deal with this situation with poor, sweet, frustrated Hank......

Love,
Bonnie & Angel Polly

Idaho
Member Since:
12 March 2013
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8 August 2014 - 8:13 am
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Sometimes the humping can be a dominance thing, too. My daughter has a Rottie who was neutered when he was younger, but every time he's around our dogs his back end starts. He is the youngest of the three, and I am sure that it is just his way of trying to re-establish the pecking order to his own way of liking.

Kathi and Murphy (and Gus...who won't put up with that you-know-what)

Murphy is a five year old Lab/Chessie cross. He was hit by a car on 10/29/12 and became a Tripawd on 11/24/12. On 2/5/13, he had a total hip replacement on his remaining back leg. He has absolutely no idea that he has only three legs!

UPDATE: Murphy lived his life to the fullest, right up until an aggressive bone lesion took him across the Rainbow Bridge on April 9, 2015 and he gained his membership in the April Angels. Run free, my love. You deserve it!

Orrtanna Pa.
Member Since:
25 January 2014
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8 August 2014 - 8:41 am
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Oh, I have an even better one to add. Ty was neutered at the usual age. 6-8 mos. he around always try to hump poor Chandler who is also neutered. He had even figured out how to do it with 3 legs. That is how I knew he had had a good day once in all of his setbacks. It was funny though, in every other way, he was a follower. He was very dependant on Chan and would only go outside etc. if Chan went first. Well, maybe there was a reason for that.LOL I would let them out and then have to keep telling Ty No! So poor Chandler could get off the porch. I definately think it was a dominance thing in this case.

TY GUY, Best Black Lab ever! Diagnosed  and had amp in January, 2014. Kicked MRSA's butt. Earned his angel wings on April 16, 2014. Run Free my boy and don't forget a shoe. Ty is a proud member of the " April Angels". Ty sent us Daryl, a Tripawd rescue in Sept. of 2016. Daryl is 5 +or -. We are also Pawrents to Chandler, a Border Collie mix who is 15 and 1/2, Lucy, a Corgi who is 7, 2 minis, 2 horses, and a feisty cat named Zoe. Zoe had a non skeletal Osteosarcoma removed in July 2015. No Chemo, she was at least 16. She is going strong although she is now completely blind. She is now close to 20 and her hobbies are eating and sleeping in front of her personal heater. 

Martinsburg, WV
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3 June 2014
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8 August 2014 - 9:11 am
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First off, I'd like say after the tragedy we went through with Leland I have continued researching trying to understand what happened to my boy.  To neuter/spay or not is a choice that only you can make...if you're allowed (meaning with adopting from shelters typically there is no choice).  I can only relate my experiences  with my dog's health and how current research is pointing to early neuter/spay as a possible cause.

Our first dog Lucky was a Dobie/Rotti mix that we adopted from a shelter (so no choice but to neuter).  His first cruciate ligament went out around age 4 and we went through the TPLO procedure to fix.  This procedure was roughly $2500 but when he came out of the anesthesia he was having seizures so we had to transport him to a 24/7 animal clinic a little over an hour away (so added cost there) where he stayed for 2 days.  Then around the age of 8 or 9 the other cruciate ligament went out.  Since Lucky was older we chose to do the less expensive procedure, which I refer to as the "fishing line" procedure.  It still ran around $1800 I believe.  Luckily, we didn't have the problem with the seizures so he was able to come the next day.  Lucky was diagnosed with Lymphoma in Sept 2009 and we had to put him to sleep 12/23/09.  Another thing was Lucky weighed mid 60's to low 70's.  The vet was always on us about his weight and his food was cut way back.  He'd lose some weight but not as much as the vet wanted...he wanted him in the 50's which for a Dobie or Rottie is ridiculous.  I've read so many articles but I'm pretty sure I've seen mentioned that early neuters can affect dog's weights as well.

So onto Leland.  He had a testicle that wasn't dropping and we were told by the vets we had to get it out or it would cause cancer.  Anytime we hear that word we do whatever we can so our fur baby doesn't have to suffer through the horrible disease.  So we waited to around 7 months and had Leland neutered.  Leland had an issue going on in his left knee (extreme swelling, knee cap pushed out of place).  The first orthopedic surgeon "needed" an MRI to determine what was going on...he thought it was cancer.  So since we heard that terrible word we said do whatever you need.  He did the MRI and a needle biopsy.  He wouldn't tell us for sure until the results of the biopsy came back.  The biopsy was sent to 2 different labs (one being the University of Michigan which is supposed to be a leading researcher in canine cancers) and both came back inconclusive.  The surgeon wanted us to bring Leland back to put him under AGAIN to cut open his leg and take a sample that way.  We told them no so we were left wondering still what was wrong with our boy's knee.  So our local vet got the report from the person who read the MRI and it listed "suspected synovial cell sarcoma".  So we decided to make Leland as comfortable as possible for as long as he had because our local vet did not think Leland would have much of a quality of life if his leg was amputated because the CCL in the other leg was not good either.  So we waited and we treated him with pain medication as well doing a holistic approach to boost his immune system.  Three months later he's still not showing the typical signs of a cancer that is progressing so our local vet did not believe he had cancer.  So we went to another orthopedic surgeon who also agreed he did not believe Leland to have cancer...so we scheduled him for a TPLO to fix the knee.  The recovery from that procedure did not go well...the screws would not hold in the meniscus and Leland got an infection that the clinic couldn't get under control.  So we were left with either put him to sleep now or amputate the leg.  We chose to amputate and Leland hadn't even made to his 4 week post amputation before the other CCL in the right knee went out.  On what should have been Leland's 4 week Ampuversary we were having to put our boy to sleep.  Not only did this poor boy go through multiple surgeries and procedures (costing well over $13,000 and we have no pet insurance) but after this all started we were told he had a thyroid issue and an autoimmune disorder that was wasting away his muscles (visibly in the head, neck, and shoulders).

Since all this I have continued trying to understand why all this happened.  I've come across articles regarding studies on neutering/spaying at young ages and how this is being linked to orthopedic issues (CCL) in dogs, increased risk of bone cancers, mast cell cancers, lymphoma, and behavior issues (noise phobias, fearful behaviors, aggression).

You should review articles by a Christine Zink, DVM, PhD.  She was a part of a recent study on Vizslas titled "Evaluation of the risk and age of onset of cancer and behavioral disorders in gonadectomized Vizslas".  There's also an article titled "Early Spay-Neuter Considerations for the Canine Athlete: One Veterinarian's Opinion".  There was also a study titled "Neutering health effects more severe for golden retrievers than Labradors" that came out of the University of California, Davis, School of Veterinary Medicine.  

For Leland I believe a combination of his early neutering as well as receiving core vaccines every year (you should research over-vaccination of pets and how this is damaging their immune system and thyroid) led to all these health issues manifesting and ultimately his death.  Right now my husband is angry because we weren't told by our vets (and we've been to several) the risks of early neutering and the damage annual vaccinations can cause.  I feel guilty because I let my boy down and did not know I had to question the vets.  I have an MA in counseling not veterinary medicine but I sure as hell know now I have to be educated in my animal's health care.

So for me and our new family member Lucian (12 wk old Dobie boy) he will not be getting neutered at 6 months.  He will probably not be neutered at all but if he is it won't be till after he's 2 1/2 yrs old.  Also, he received his puppy shots but he will not be getting vaccinated every year as we did with Leland.  From what I've read it's like with children who receive their childhood vaccines and then they're set for life pretty much.

I know I probably rambled and gave you more information than you wanted/needed but after all we suffered through with Leland if I can share my experience and point you in a direction to research that may assist you then Leland's death and suffering isn't for nothing.crying

Sahana and her Angel Leland  

Leland

November 17, 2009 - June 30, 2014

May you finally be healthy and running free at the Rainbow Bridge. Until we meet again my sweet boy!

Virginia



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22 February 2013
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8 August 2014 - 10:46 am
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DEAR,.DEAR.SAHANA AND LELAND...

Talk.about Leland living a life of meaning and purpose...talk about a legacy that continues to have an impact...talk about Leleand continuing to live through you...yep...we have it all right here.

Youdone a stellar job and making something positive out.of this...making it have a meaning that empowers!!!!! I bow down in awe of your compassion, your courage and your genuine desire to not let Leland's transition to be in vain. I am so honored to be on this journey with souls like you and all who have posted......so honored.

And what I'm about to say, I.say with a soul deep "knowing".......If Leland came to earth again and was told he had a choice...he cou k d be free of his medical challenges but you would not be his human....OR.....he could come to earth again, have the same medical issues, BUT..you and your husband would be his soulmates on this journey, his forever home...Leland wouldn't hesitate to say...."Bring it o n!!! I can deal with al l that medical crap....but I CANNOT deal with the thought of being with anyone else other than my Sahana!"superstarsuperstar

Thank you for continuing Leland's Legacy.

Sending love

Sally and Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

Virginia



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8 August 2014 - 10:48 am
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And on the lighter side.........LORI AND PENNY...YOU CRACK ME UP!!!!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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