Tripawds Three Legged Dog & Cat Forum Archives

…here. Remember we'll be turning these forums into read only soon so be sure to post in Circle when you get a chance. 

It definitely sounds like phantom pain
, and it's not unusual even a month out. How long before it subsides varies from animal to animal and it's not a one-size-fits-all approach…

…your vet yet? Also, did you see our Tripawd Cats Walking Backwards post? That will give you a good backstory before you chat with them about better pain control. A visit with an animal rehab therapist can also help (and remember Tripawds Foundation
can pay for your first rehab visit
too!). They

… finally everything is healing nicely and he had the stitches out a week ago. after researching what i'm witnessing, it seems like he's dealing with phantom leg throughout the day. he'll be fine one moment and cruise down the hallway and jump on to a couch, then other moments he'll go into a tense body…

… sometimes falling over. you can tell in these moments that he's trying to use the missing leg. 

i've seen on here some thoughts of prescription pain treatment and i'm wondering how to go about this, and other treatments i can do at home? i'm also wondering if there's a rough time frame of how…

…long phantom leg can be an issue? he's a little over a month from the amputation at this point. 

thanks! 🙂

…I looooove Freddy Purrcury's name!!

I'm not a kotty expert here, but I can share some things I've learned.

As far as the walking backwards, phantom pain
  etc....yes, we have DEFINITELY  seen that in kitties after amputation. As you have seen, it does eventually  go away, or at least…

…able to do some searches right now

The Gabapentin  may help with the knee issue too.  Although from what I understand it's not necessarily  a painful thing, but the lameness  is more of a biochemical issue.  Is Freddie on any antiinflmmatory and joint supplements?? They could help Also, of…

…that can be done for cats.The Tripawds Foundation
  will pay for the first visit.

So it doesnt sound like the knee luxatating patella is at a pain level that is interfering with quality.   At some point it may cause  arthritis and that would need to be addressed. 

Of course, I'm not a Bet

…amputation in October. Afterwards, we discovered his remaining hind leg has a luxating patella. Likely from birth, grade 1/4.

He also has nerve pain or phantom limb pain, walking backwards etc, which has mostly disappeared now at 4 months post surgery but still remains somewhat. He refuses oral…

…. My questions are:

whether anyone else's pet had a disability in the remaining leg, and if so, how you handled it
whether anyone else observed phantom limb / nerve pain / walking backwards for 4 months post surgery, and if it eventually went away entirely
any other advice or insight you may have

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…last night. 

Okay, celebrate that.  Any "little" improvement is a big improvement  this early on in recovery..

Yeah, if you dont see the pain reducing, even if slowly but surely,  getting that pain specialist  appt is a good idea.  Hopefully  the meds you are us9ng now will be effective.
…

…

Let is know how the farabloc
works, okay?  When does she get her stitches out? Odd that her pain seems to be related with her getting up.  Wouldn't it be great if somehow this was related to a stitch pull?  Most likely not....just a thought…

…a good job of advocating  for Sage and doing everything  ppssible to get her over this hurdle.  Sometimes it takes a tweak and and there with the pain meds combined with extra healing time.

Hugs

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

…you both for your super helpful knowledge.  We had a better night last night.  I have looked up and found some pain management
specialists somewhat close to us.  I am going to give her thru the weekend, we will be at 2 weeks post op on Monday and if she isnt…

…showing any improvement pain wise I will definitely schedule an appointment with them.  Its just so hard seeing your baby in pain and your trying to advocate for them and your not getting anywhere. I will check with my regular vet if he has any recommendations of physical

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…and love and well wishes for a boring, uneventful surgery and easy peasy recovery!

P.S. That's awesome your oncologist mentioned the phantom pain
study! Did she happen to mention when it was published? I'm thinking it might be this one, "The Canine Postamputation Pain (CAMPPAIN) initiative

…Michelle, welcome. Your future posts won't need to wait for approval so post away.

I'm sorry Sage is having these issues. Phantom pain is not uncommon in pets or people amputees, so I'm glad you talked to your vet team about it. Her medication sounds good and the Amantadine should…

…help. Yes, her medication dosages and frequencies (and type) are pretty much the standard for treating phantom pain
. Most people report that Amantadine makes a huge difference. 

Another thing to try if Amantadine doesn't help within a few days, is to ask your…

…vet about Pregabalin. See this post, which explains why.

Pregabalin for Tripawd Amputation Pain is Worth Discussing when Gabapentin Isn’t Working
 

Occasionally a pain management
specialist needs to be added in to the treatment, to break the pain cycle with stronger in-clinic medications. But for now, don't panic. Most times this type of pain will resolve within a few weeks. A rehab…

…this is a huge surgery and the body is figuring things out, even those nerves, which need time and attention with medication and therapy to treat the pain.

Something else you can do is to de-sensitize the nerves around the site. See:

Understanding and Treating Nerve Pain After Amputation for

…questions I wrote down and took with me, and she was ecstatic about that and answered all of them. She was especially excited when I asked her about phantom limb pain. She said I was the first person to ever ask her that and that Cornell actually did a study about it. They told me they were going to do…

…is the longest because they have to shave so much of her fur. They will also be giving her a nerve block during surgery to help with post surgical pain. As long as everything goes well and she can somewhat ambulate tomorrow, I will be able to go back up and bring my baby home! 

I would be lying

…amp (front left leg / osteosarcoma ) and ever since day 3 post op Sage has been having what my oncology surgeon and regular vet are telling me is phantom pains. My regular vet checked her out yesterday and of course she is fine there. Eating and drinking great, incision great, walking great. But at…

…once a day and her surgeon just added Amantadine 200mg every 12 hours which we started tonight. She said at this point she is maxed out on all pain meds and to just give her time. I hope the Amantadine helps. She seems less agitated today and is finally resting more. She was whinning and

…of a seroma
(fluid leakage after amputation surgery)? 

An infection can make dogs feel lousy and not want to eat, so that sounds normal. His pain sounds like it's not under control, but that's just a guess. His dosages and medications are pretty typical but what works in one dog isn't…

…guaranteed to work in another. Yes, he might very well be having phantom pain
. His pain medication may need adjusting so I would let your vets know he is still not moving very well and having those phantom pain
symptoms.

Can you take

…around using the bathroom fine a few days later. He unfortunitsly has an infection and is on his last day of antibiotics. He's still taking all his pain meds. Yesterday he stop walking. When you get him up he'll sit right away or lie back down he doesn't want to move around and when he does they are…

…to legs and look like he's going to flip backwards. He will randomly yelp a little in his sleep or after lying still for a while so I'm assuming phantom pain
? I bought tri-acta supplement for him aswell. 

I feel just horrible for him and want to help.

….  Possibly  an owee from a staple pull.....and yes, maybe just a dramatic  way of letting  you know she needed a poop.🥵  Maybe a touch of phantom limb pain and the gabapentin will take care of that.Anyway, glad she worked through it.

You do have a little wiggle room with the dose of the

…good, glad she's staying overnight at the clinic. She'll be on some really good pain meds and has a kite and that will give you a chance to catch up on some sleep. It's exhausting mentally and physically getting to this point of the…

…journey, but you will be so relieved when you start to see her Sparkle come back slowly but surely.

    they could get nerve pain from the amputation

No worries IF..IF  phantom limb pain shows up.  Some dogs never have the nerve pain, some do.  The good news is that…

…tweaking medication  takes care of it.  Gabapentin  is usually the solution.I imagine that will be part of her pain protocol when the Surgeon releases  her.

Let us know when surgery is done so we can celebrate with you.  Remember, we are all here for you and

…Sarah and Maya, welcome. What was the reason for her amputation?

Yep, sounds like phantom pain
, which is not at all uncommon, but can be difficult to treat. At six weeks out it might resolve on it's own with additional Gabapentin (what is…

…the dosage/timing and her weight), but sometimes doesn't work on this.

Unfortunately many vets don't know how to help resolve phantom pain
and oftentimes medication alone won't fix the problem. One reason you'll see us recommending rehab therapy a lot around here is because these pros…

…are good at diagnosing pain when general vets are stumped. And that's a big reason why Tripawds Foundation
will pay for your first rehab visit
too, so please ask for a

…look forward to hearing more about Maya.

Of course, we are not Vets and not giving Vwt advice, however. it does sound  like you are describing  phantom pain
...  phantom limb pain.  The way you describe her behavior  is so very similar to reaction from the phantom pain
.

When did this start?

….

First of all , thank you for giving this sweet kitty such a caring and loving home. What's her name? 

  So knowing she's been dealing with pain for a long time, do you think it's normal for her to be like this? I was really expecting her to bounce back by now. What am I doing wrong? .

…

….  

When you speak with your vet, you might ask about putting your cat on some arthritis medicine as you taper off the gabapentin.

As far as phantom pain
, it usually shows up quickly out of the blue and a cat or dog will get up quickly and try to run away from the pain. It's a severe sharp pain

…seems to sleep alot, is wobbly and constantly wants to be beside/on me. Everything has healed super well so I'm thinking it may have to do with phantom pain
.

Here's some history: Before I had adopted her, back when she was a kitten, she had broken her back leg. During the healing process it…

…to a year ago, the limp had changed, which turned out to be arthritis and a torn ligament. That was when I learned she must have been dealing with pain for a quite a long time. 🙁

So knowing she's been dealing with pain for a long time, do you think it's normal for her to be like this? I was

…
It's not uncommon for a three-legged dog to suffer from chronic, long-term pain caused by osteoarthritis. Long-term phantom pain
is another common issue. So if your Tripawd's pain has not responded to conventional treatments, you may want to talk to your vet about the…

…possibility of trying low dose ketamine therapy.

Ketamine: Another Option for Some Tripawds with Chronic Osteoarthritis Pain

Many Tripawd dogs like Luna will suffer from chronic pain that's unresponsive to conventional therapies.

For decades this low-cost…

…anesthetic drug has been used as an analgesic in human and veterinary medicine surgeries. Today some veterinary pain management
experts like Dr. Lindsey Fry in Colorado are discovering that regular, low dose ketamine therapy outside of the surgical suite can help…

…dogs with severe osteoarthritis pain, too.

Although there are just a few studies about how ketamine helps dogs with chronic pain, the anecdotal evidence is currently showing that it's worth a try in dogs who have not responded to other therapies.

“Ketamine is such a…

…powerful component of pain relief when added to other analgesics that consensus statements for its use in humans with both acute and chronic pain have been developed."

Veterinary anesthesiologist and pain management
expert Dr. Tamara Grubb.

Ketamine and Amantadine: One in…

…the Same?

Ketamine and the Parkinson's medication Amantadine are closely linked in how they work to alleviate chronic pain. Amantadine is the oral counterpart to Ketamine. We often mention Amantadine as being a good option for Tripawds with severe osteoarthritis or phantom pain (or both!). And Tripawds members often report it as a game changer.

See the American Animal Hospital Association (AAHA) article…

…"Pharmacological Agents in the Treatment of Chronic Pain."

Although Amantadine is used off-label to treat chronic osteoarthritis pain in dogs (it's technically only studied to treat Parkinson's patients), many veterinary pain specialists like Dr. Mike Petty use it for persistent,…

… untreatable pain.

How Does Ketamine Work to Help with Chronic Pain in Tripawds and Other Dogs?

Tripawd Shasta's pain was treated by a vet specialist.

Ketamine works to alleviate chronic pain by stimulating neuroplasticity. This is the process of re-training…

…the brain to adapt to changing needs in the body. When given in low dose treatments, ketamine may not only relieve pain but simultaneously change the brain’s response to pain. The result creates a new “map” that teaches the brain how to perceive pain.

An…

…added benefit of ketamine therapy is that low dose ketamine therapy can help chronically painful dogs sleep better, without the side effects of opioids.

A Tripawd story of ketamine success

Some Tripawds members have used Ketamine…

…for chronic pain in their dog’s pain management
protocol. The most detailed account of how it worked was provided by Meg’s mum, Clare.

The introduction of Ketamine is the…

…

Ketamine for Arthritis, @megstamum

Is Ketamine Safe?

When used under strict veterinary supervision, it is safe for most dogs with pain that is unresponsive to other treatments. Ketamine works in dogs just minutes after the first low dose injection by a veterinary professional.

…

…liver disease, hypertension, seizures, or larynx disorders should not take it.

Share with Your Vet: Information About Ketamine for Chronic Pain in Tripawd Dogs and Other Pets

The following material is not for the layperson. But it is a good starting point to have a conversation with…

…your veterinarian and/or veterinary pain management
specialist.

Download these scientific Ketamine papers for your veterinary team: "Ketamine: A Novel Approach with a Familiar…

…Tool—Part 1 Review of Ketamine and Chronic Pain," and Part 2, by Dr. Lindsey Fry, DVM, cVMA, CCRP, CVPP

You can also refer your vet to this YouTube video with Dr. Fry:

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…:"youtube","responsive":true,"className":"wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio"} -->

Find a Veterinary Pain Management Specialist

If you don't know a pain specialist and want to see one, check out the International Veterinary Academy of Pain Management…

…. This month they are celebrating Animal Pain Awareness Month, and we are happy to help share this important campaign to our community.

Find a Veteterinary Pain Management Specialist

…the likelihood of Knuckles ever leaving the shelter before being put down pretty much zero.

Yes, as Jerry noted, please let is know more about his pain control.  This is MAJOR surgery and he needs to be kept quiet and just  take short leashed potty breaks for the first two weeks.

Is he eating,…

…it or that night or next day?

    they re sutured  and said they saw signs of infection which is not good and prescribed anti biotics along with pain meds

Just to clarify, he was on pain meds prior to this wound opening up, but the Vet just added additional??  Domyou have a cone on him to…

…prevent him getting to the stitches?

Also, regarding the yelping, checkout information  on phantom pain
It's basically a sharp quick nerve pain that makes dogs Yelp and cry and usually try to get up and run away from the pain. Gabapentin is generally the best pain med to help this, as well…

…as the regular surgery pain.

Recovery is no picnic for the first week or two, that's for sure. With proper pain control and very little activity other than potty and outside, things will slowly start to get better.

Stay connected and please let us know how…

…he's doing, his pain meds, etc. Remember, recovery doesn't last forever it just feels like it right now!

Hugs 

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and

…young appearing, that makes sense. If they have been practicing for decades, that would make me nervous.

But, I'm glad your vet mentioned the pain management
she can offer, and that she doesn't have overnight care. This is because good recoveries start with good pain control. A nerve block is…

…recovery. Remember, severing the leg severs many nerves and vessels, it's a major surgery and it makes the body very confused and angry if the pain isn't managed before during and after surgery.

Sure, many folks bring their dogs home the same day. It can be done. And some dogs do come home…

…2007), and have been for years. But if you have options (not necessarily the specialist so keep reading), this is not ideal. Dogs without good pain control often recover with phantom pain
, and sometimes it's really bad, lasting a long time. This can also lead to trips to the ER clinic, which…

…can end up costing way more money than if good pain control was used at the get-go.

Also, most vets are not using fentanyl anymore, because they're finding that dogs don't feel relief with it the…

…way it was once thought (same with Tramadol). One medication called Nocita is super helpful instead.

Less than ideal post-op pain is a very stressful situation to go through for both of you, especially when bringing home a dog the same day of surgery. All of this can be…

…doesn't have to mean an $8k specialist either. What I would do is to ask your vet if she can refer you to a primary vet who does do more aggressive pain management
with a nerve block. That doesn't have to mean sending you to a specialist, either. Many GP vets will do amputations this way. 

Check…

…out our interview with Dr. Tamara Grubb:

Help Your Tripawd Avoid Pain, with Vet Expert Dr. Tamara Grubb
 

I'm happy to help you look for another vet you can talk to if your vet doesn't know any, just message me your

…have not asked about the gabapentin, I would definitely do so. It made a world of difference for Huckleberry. Her reactions sound like she needs pain management
. As far as the Churu's are concerned, honestly ANYTHING you can give her is better than not eating. Tuna, chicken, low sodium broth…

…I have used it many times. It might be just what she needs to realize she is hungry. It honestly sounds like you are doing a great job. If she has phantom limb pain the Gabapentin will help tremendously. It does tend to make them a little drowsy at first but that doesn't last. 

I have not been here

…for adoption soon? Be sure to post in our Tripawds Rescue Forum if so and we will help get the word out about this boy.

Generally dogs show pain signals
from amputation surgery in other ways, like phantom pain
signals (intermittent yelping, howling, jumping up), or with decreased appetite,…

… hiding, etc. Excessive grooming is definitely a pain signal but it sounds like it needs more veterinary intervention than pain medication. If he's obsessing about his stump area, it could be that he has a stitch that didn't come out. I would let your vet know and have them

…
When you're new to the cat or dog amputation recovery journey, you will quickly learn that pain management
is not a one-size-fits-all process. If your new Tripawd is struggling with pain control, and Gabapentin is not working, you may want…

…to talk to your vet about another nerve pain medication called Pregabalin. Here's why.

Pain control after amputation surgery has come a long way in most places.

Today, many vets are following the latest AAHA Pain Management guidelines…

…to it. New amputees come home with at the very least, a 7-to-10-day course of anti-inflammatory medication and Gabapentin to help ease nerve pain.

But during the first couple of weeks after surgery, pain control often needs to be adjusted. Sometimes it needs to be changed altogether.…

… So if you find that your pet appears to be suffering from phantom leg pain
and you've already adjusted their Gabapentin dosage, it's worth talking to your vet about Pregabalin.

Because he had an interest in…

…but, again after a Pregabalin, he is completely settled. My point: the Pregabalin has given us hope.

Arnold's story: French Bulldog with Phantom Limb Pain

Why Try Pregabalin for Amputation Pain in Dogs and Cats?

Similar to Gabapentin, this anti-epileptic medication also…

…known as Lyrica in human medicine, is now being viewed by some human physicians and veterinarians as a better source of nerve pain relief than Gabapentin.

Pregabalin acts on pain receptors exactly the same way as Gabapentin. But is more potent and more predictable with…

…predictable, has a faster absorption, and with fewer doses

According to one Pregabalin study, Pregabalin has the potential to provide better pain relief in fewer doses.

Faster absorption

More predictable in its effect. A pet's plasma concentration is proportional to the dose…

…administered (which is not true for Gabapentin)

Has an increased pain receptor affinity, which means lower doses are needed when compared to Gabapentin

Has a terminal half-life of 7 hours. This makes a twice a…

…for Dogs

A study in dogs undergoing surgery for intravertebral disc disease and received 4mg/kg of pregabalin twice a day had lower pain scores when compared to dogs that did not receive any (Schmierer et al., 2020).

Another study evaluated the use of pregabalin (5mg/kg BID…

…and showed increased tolerance in thermal and mechanical hyperalgesia and allodynia tests together with an improvement in owner-recorded pain scores (Sanchis-Mora et al., 2019). Gabapentin and Pregabalin as Analgesics, North Downs Specialist Referrals, Bletchingley, United Kingdom

…

…

What about Pregabalin for Cats?

Yes, Pregabalin can be used for cat amputation pain, but only with your vet's guidance. Interestingly, in April 2024, Pregabalin now comes in an oral solution (brand name: Bonqat, by Zoetis). It…

…as an anti-anxiety medication for cats because that's how it was studied. Although it has not been studied extensively for treating cat amputation pain, it is worth a discussion with your vet.

Pregabalin is worth discussing with your veterinarian.

Once your vet approves using…

…Pregabalin for Tripawd amputation pain, they can start taking it right away. Unlike NSAIDs, Pregabalin does not require a “washout” period to switch from Gabapentin.

Keep in mind…

…it.

But if your new Tripawd's medication need is not being met, advocating for your new amputee is more important than ever to give the pain relief they deserve.

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…more and more each day!

Jerry -- we took your advice re: asking for Amantadine, and it seems like it's really been helping with Caly's pain/discomfort! Her oncologist prescribed it last Monday and I can safely say that after just 7 days, it's made a huge difference in her night time