Tripawds Three Legged Dog & Cat Forum Archives

…What is is about the Yale vaccine that makes you feel a little better? Have you seen our Elias info yet?

There's not really a lot of data on either, but it seems that the Yale vaccine might be performing a little better.  My oncologist had…

…a much stronger preference to Elias though - I think I'm going to have to trust her.  We are just riddled with a lot of worry that we're going to pick the wrong treatment, although I

…have on your mind and we'll try to ease your concerns.

What is is about the Yale vaccine that makes you feel a little better? Have you seen our Elias info yet?

https://tripawd.....et-cancer/

…sure yet.  We'll definitely be doing chemotherapy.  We're trying to decide if we want to do immunotherapy as well.  Our oncologist has suggested Elias immunotherapy - for some reason, I have a better feeling about the Yale vaccine, but I think I should trust the expert on this one.

…a couple of immunotherapy options (immune checkpoint inhibitor, and Interleukins) both of which are being studied and even now being studied by ELIAS (the immunotherapy that Ophelia did receive right after amputation). Unfortunately, due to the fact that they are still so experimental, they just…

…weren’t available for me to get my hands on. I even spoke the chief medical officer at ELIAS in my attempts.  

What we did do is put her on a combination therapy of sorafenib, Losartan and propranolol.  Sorafenib is a drug in the same

…Helga had to.leave her earthly  presence.

Having the courage and in the middle of your grief, to share  your experience with Helga regarding the Elias vaccine is truly in invaluable. Dog Ticker just passed after going thru the vaccine and Dog Tucker jist passed  also.  To me, it's quite eye

…leg. But if it happens, at least they have examples of dogs like Tucker who can help them decide what to do next.

More folks are experiencing the ELIAS therapy (and immunotherapy in general) and we are all learning more about how it works, what to expect, etc. Your from-the-heart post here is

…metal plate in his leg) in June.

After Tucker’s diagnosis, we debated between stereotactic radiation, amputation and chemo, or amputation and the Elias vaccine/immunotherapy. It was very difficult to find information, and this forum was such an incredible resource. Thank you to everyone who replied…

…rileyfan11), who was incredibly kind and generous with his time. That was our first chance to correspond with someone who was in the process of the Elias vaccine, and it was very helpful to us.

After much debate, we ruled out stereotactic radiation, because our dog is quite active (even at 11) and…

…vet nearby. If he had a break, we’d have to drive 2 hours to get him treatment, which sounded terrible for him.

We were very intrigued by the Elias vaccine, but there was so little information to be found. Initially, we planned to amputate at UGA (where Tucker was diagnosed) and then explore…

…the Elias vaccine. However, we learned that the amputation must be done at a facility that works with Elias and we began exploring those options. Unfortunately for us, no one in the Atlanta area is currently working with Elias. The nearest veterinary…

…hospital was in Charleston, SC. Because we were willing to travel, and mentioned to the Elias coordinator that we’d even considered going to Colorado State for stereotactic radiation, she also referred us to an “excellent” facility in Colorado…

…we learned so much. We later found out that both of the hospitals in Charleston had signed up for the program, but had never actually completed the  Elias treatment. CASE had, at the time we spoke to them, completed the treatment on over 50 dogs. Although we felt very comfortable with Dr. Fowler and…

…I am not in the medical field, so this is my layman’s understanding of all of this. The amputation must be done at a facility that is working with Elias, because they harvest cells from the amputated limb to create the vaccine. Elias works closely with the facility to ensure it’s being done properly …

…(including zoom calls/tutorials). The harvested material is overnighted to Elias and they create the vaccine. The vaccine is a series of 3 weekly injections. These are not as simple as something like a flu vaccine – they’re…

…performed at multiple injection sites around the dog’s body (at the lymph nodes). It’s very important that this is done properly, and Elias also works with the doctor on this portion of the treatment. For us, that meant traveling to Charleston 4 times – once for the amputation and three…

…the treatment. Using apheresis, the dog’s T cells are collected. We had to travel to New Orleans (MedVet) for this procedure. When we began the Elias journey, we were told this could happen in North Carolina at NC State, but apparently, they stopped offering this. This was the hardest day for…

…still very tired the following day. It took a good 36-48 hours for him to recover. Exactly one week later, those T cells are re-infused in mass. Elias describes their process as taking the collected T cells and using them to create an “army” of T cells to go in and attack the cancer. There is some…

…appointment, 4 weeks after the re-infusion, we learned that the cancer had already metastasized to his lungs. We discussed starting Palladia, but Elias ended up advising our vet to hold off and x-ray again in another month. They thought it was possible (from previous cases) that the radiographs…

…might be highlighting inflammation from the Elias treatment attacking the cancer. I also asked if Palladia would potentially interfere with the immunotherapy, in case it was still working to fight…

…. Both my husband and I work a lot, and this forced us to slow down and take road trips together that we might never have done otherwise.

Elias was great to work with. One note is that they most likely won’t communicate much with you – I think they primarily want to talk to the veterinary…

…like she was traveling nearly every weekend to some educational panel or seminar. 

I’m happy to answer any questions for anyone considering the Elias procedure, or anything else related to our learnings. Thank you all again for this incredible resource that you’ve created.

…this info so that we may share it?

helgasmomjen said

Afterwards, I began reading about immunotherapy in general (not specifically about the Elias protocol). I learned that some patients have an unexpected response including hyperprogression of their cancer. Scientists believe certain…

….

I thought I would help direct as Jen likely needs some time!!!

There are several articles once you know what to search for. As stated, not Elias specifically but under immunotherapy in general. Several articles states, as quoted above.

I searched hyperprogression in immunotherapy

Results

….

As many of you know following his journey Riley was diagnosed in early March with bone cancer. He had his right front leg amputated and did the ELIAS treatment plan.

He did very well with the plan and was getting better and better everyday.

We had an x-ray scan of his whole body in late Sept…

…He was the sweetest dog that anyone could have ever asked for and I count myself lucky he was in my life.

Hindsight is always 20/20 and I knew the ELIAS program was a big swing. It cost a very large amount of money and was difficult to do, but it allowed him almost 9 months of laying out in the sun,

…links where you found this info so that we may share it?

Afterwards, I began reading about immunotherapy in general (not specifically about the Elias protocol). I learned that some patients have an unexpected response including hyperprogression of their cancer. Scientists believe certain

…like immunotherapy. After a thorough workup of tests and examinations, the oncology vet determined that Helga would be a good candidate for the Elias immunotherapy protocol. There were no lung mets observed, nothing apparent in the abdomen, blood work checked out.

I read everything I could…

…informed decision.

While not easy, Helga bounced back as well as possible from the amputation. We did 1 round of carboplatin before starting the Elias protocol, based on recommendations from the vet, which was well tolerated. We then did the 3 Elias vaccines, again no big reactions, mild lethargy…

…ordeal, it was one of the worst experiences of my life.

Afterwards, I began reading about immunotherapy in general (not specifically about the Elias protocol). I learned that some patients have an unexpected response including hyperprogression of their cancer. Scientists believe certain…

… I am not sure if this research is also being carried out for canine patients, but it should be.

I was not warned of this potential outcome of the Elias treatment. I was warned that the treatment may have no effect, may not prolong life as long as some subjects in the trial experienced. But no one…

… interrogate them, to gain the fullest understanding of your dog's condition and the potential for this type of outcome before you consent to the Elias treatment or any other immunotherapy. You're the only true advocate your beloved dog has, and unfortunately you have to be maniacal in your quest

…

Thanks for sharing about Riley's experience with Elias. I'm glad to hear that he did so well with it! The setback with the foot infection sounds scary, but hopefully you are on the other side of it. I

…

Hi, my dog Riley is 9 and he had his amputation in late March of this year and we also elected to do the ELIAS treatment. (front right leg)

I know Riley had quite a pouch after his amputation and our vet said it's just the buildup of all the fluids, etc.…

…it should be. The vet thinks he developed a sore there that nobody saw which allowed the infection to take hold in his leg.

Also, even though the ELIAS program seemed to work well over the summer Riley would battle stomach issues for 1-2 days sporadically. Almost, like the flu or something. We…

…absolute favorite food around like a hamburger patty or something. Then, after a few days, he would be back to normal.

Our vet and the people at ELIAS aren't sure why as there is so little data regarding these treatments, but my theory, and it's just mine, is that his body is very sensitive to…

…. They help Riley's ghost pain a lot! He still has it from time to time. (jumps up, spins around)

Finally, if you have any questions about the ELIAS program please let me know. We had to travel to Ohio (4+ hours away) 2 weeks in a row to go to a clinic that had the right equipment. We've

…site since my 10 year old lab Helga was diagnosed in September 2023. Thanks for the wonderful resources!

I elected to do the amputation with the Elias protocol for her. We are nearing the end of the protocol, and the vet is concerned about swelling/mass at the amputation site. Doing biopsy but vet

…surgeon practicing at Boundary Bay in Surrey, BC), as well as the tricky logistics with crossing the border multiple, multiple times for the Elias protocol, lack of 24hr care with the clinic offering the Elias vaccine, and a few others -- we have decided to move forward with amputation here in

…would look for in a clinic. They have a lot of board certified specialists too, which is fantastic. It's hard to say if the other practice has more ELIAS experience than they do, have you asked how many dogs they've treated? 

We are unclear what dictates a dogs eligibility for 6 doses vs. 3-4 -

…we spoke with the Boundary Bay Clinic in Bellingham, WA (sister clinic of our vet specialist's office here in Canada,) they said they could do the Elias vaccine protocol but they do not have an apheresis machine on site so we'd have to involve a second clinic in Bellingham (Bellingham Veterinary led…

…kind, he stressed how important it is to not waste a single day and he could have Forrest in as early as tomorrow (now today) depending on Elias's ability to receive the limb. Absolute latest (and again, only based on Elias's role in all this) would be Monday. He told us that his clinic…

…was one of the first in the US to be involved in the trials of the Elias vaccine and he truly believes it is the single best option out there for the treatment of osteosarcoma. He mentioned that osteosarcoma in dogs is…

…very personal for him because his own dog passed from it just prior to his involvement with Elias.

Googling him, he seems to be involved in many very advanced treatments of canine cancer. He's working on preparing a quote for us for both the…

…it seems like our best action may be just to switch to doing everything in house with Dr. Sullivan/Dr. Westfall given his broader experience with Elias... We just feel a bit conflicted given how much we've already been discussing with Boundary Bay and this takes us out of contact with the only…

…so far. 

Another wrench in this is that the clinical studies for chemo/carboplatin show similar DFI and MST with 6 doses as the clinical trials on Elias:

Carboplatin:

  1. 48 dogs, 4 doses carbo, DFI 257 days, MST 321
    2. 155 dogs, 3-4 doses, DFI 256 days, MST 307
    3. 25 dogs, 6 doses,…

… DFI 425 days, MST 479 days.  6 dogs alive at 599,1119,1599,1699,1743 and 1766 days.
 
Elias:
- one study looked at 15 dogs that got the treatment.  Median disease free interval (DFI) was 213 days, median survival time (MST) was 415

… 
2) Our clinic has a sister location in Bellingham, Washington (about 1.5 hour drive door to door across the border for us) that offers the Elias vaccine treatment. It's more than double the cost of treatment here in Canada, but this isn't the main deciding factor for us.
 
We've reached out

….  The Palladia was being used to try and beat back something that may not occur due to the other treatments that she’s already received, ie, the ELIAS immunotherapy.  That may be wishful thinking, but i still think that her quality of life has to be the priority regardless.  

I am curious what

…its arthritis, and prayers the Spryng helps, and from what I read about it, BE HOPEFUL it will be her miracle. If the scan will help you and Ophelias move furward, then proceed, but do try to live each day w/o C it will rob every gifted day you have. It takes a lot of work, but follow Ophelia's

…said

I saw this video a couple of weeks ago. It’s very exciting.  I also just want to pipe in and say that the ELIAS “immunotherapy” is actually a CAR-T therapy. 

Thanks Michael, I had forgotten about that part. The new way of attacking cancer is just

…the steps for patio and porch. Let me know if you want more info. 

As for treatment, i opted to go with a couple of doses of chemo and then the ELIAS immunotherapy experimental treatment.  It’s actually a CAR-T therapy.  It’s had some really great results in the limited studies that have been

…saw this video a couple of weeks ago. It’s very exciting.  I also just want to pipe in and say that the ELIAS “immunotherapy” is actually a CAR-T therapy.  It uses a vaccine to teach the T cells to recognize and attack the cancer. Then they take those T

…on the Yale Vaccine study) on how a dog’s microbiome may determine whether and how much it may respond to immunotherapies like the Yale Vaccine (or ELIAS, Torigen, etc.) This is a hopeful new research area that may help make immunotherapies more effective for more dogs.

…Yale vaccine. We did ask about this with our oncologist. We chose to keep it in our back pocket after her experience with it. I didn’t recognize Elias vaccine….. thank you…

…there - so so soooo glad Lacy’s doing well.

I saw you posted on Riley’s thread about your interest in the ELIAS vaccine, and you probably saw his dad’s reply about the tumor sample needing to be taken from the original leg tumor?

I replied there about…

…reply there, so when I saw Lacy’s personal thread in the update list, I thought I’d quote it here as well in case it interests you:

@robid, Yes, ELIAS needs a tumor sample prepared before/during amputation in order for them to develop the treatment for your dog. However - hope isn’t lost! (As I

…Dad -

I know, right?! So exciting. And thanks so much to you too for always mentioning that you’re happy to share your knowledge about ELIAS. It’s truly about each one of us chipping in our bit of the puzzle, isn’t it?

Wishing Riley so much continued good health and life with you -

…robid, Yes, ELIAS needs a tumor sample prepared before/during amputation in order for them to develop the treatment for your dog. However - hope isn’t lost! (As I

…

Unfortunately, I think the ELIAS program needs to be done before the amputation. They get the cancer cells before the amputation. Perhaps, they have changed the protocol, but that…

…is why it was so difficult for us because we had to do the surgery quickly and find a vet that could work with ELIAS. Not easy.

I'm sorry for Lacy. It's such a difficult process for everyone involved.

Take care,

Riley's Dad

….

His vet is in amazement. He said he's never treated a dog with bone cancer who has lived more than a couple of months and is a believer in the ELIAS treatment plan. His hope, like mine, is that the cost will start to come down so it can help more people.

I enjoy every moment I get to spend…

…people on this forum and the people behind it. I couldn't have gotten through this without your love and support.

If anyone has questions about ELIAS and the immunotherapy they offer please send me a message and I will provide as much help as I can.

Thanks again

Riley's Dad