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Hi everyone. Thank you for all the replies. I am sorry its been a while since I updated here. I wanted to share a few things that have been happening in hopes someone else has experienced similar things or for anyone who will experience these things.
- Randomly, Hazel will get up from her bed and walk down the hall to "hide" in the bedroom and will stand and peer around the corner as if looking for something that she is scared of. There isn't a sound, a movement, or anything I can pinpoint as to what initiated this response from her. This happens 4-5 times a day. She just did it a few minutes ago, but this time it was much more "scared" and she tucked her tail under her back leg and stayed very low to the ground. I got on the ground with her and she relaxed but kept staring ahead as if she was watching something.
- We live on a street that has avenues to the left and right and she will not walk on them. When we get close to the corner she grounds her legs and refuses to go further as if she is scared.
- During the day, she is very clingy and watches my moves closely. If I walk out of the room for too long she follows. She used to just sleep and was unbothered by my whereabouts.
I switched her to a new food on 1/30 and this behavior started about a week or two after that. Her surgery was on 1/11 and she has been off all pain medicine since about 2/1.
Any ideas as to what may be causing this behavior? Thank you in advance!
Popping in really quickly as I have to head out.
Did this behavior (especially getting up quickly and going to "hide") start after all meds were stopped?? Check out the li k to phantom pain and see if that's a possibility. Usually, not always, the quick getting up to run away from the pain is accompanied by yelps or other vocal pain signs. It sou ds like she does get a sudden pain out of the blue that scares her and she tries to move away from the pain.
Anyway, just throwing that out quickly..........
Hugs
Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
Hi Sally. Thank you for your quick response!
Yes, this behavior all started after the pain meds were stopped. She never showed any of these symptoms while she was on pain medicine. She whines 1 or 2x a day but when I come to her she stops and she never whines or vocalizes anything when she gets up suddenly. I reviewed the signs on this article and she 1 or 2x a day will sit up and lightly pant and has a lack of engagement. It has been 2 months since the surgery, is pain likely to still be present at this time?
Yep, I'd definitely say she is having some unaddressed pain based on what you are describing. The clinginess, reluctance to be active, these are all common pain signals . Over time learning how to be mobile with a new gait can cause pain issues that build up, so it's always best to seek help from a rehabilitation therapist. Remember the Tripawds Foundation can pay for your first rehab visit ! Let us know if you'd like help finding one.
In the meantime let your vet know what's going on so they can check her out for other things just in case. They may also prescribe an additional round of gabapentin and a muscle relaxer (methocarbomol is good) to help her feel better. Pain medication is just one aspect of addressing pain though. A therapist comes at it from all angles to help her feel better and address the root cause.
Thanks, Jerry. I spoke with my vet and Doctor Loops office and they believe it is more likely anxiety signs. Trying melatonin and trazadone to see if that helps the symptoms. I'll update in a bit.
Hi everyone. my apologies for letting so much time pass since my last update.
A lot has happened since she returned to Central Park. Had a few up and downs, but happy to say it's 6 months post-op and Hazel is doing well overall.
I am writing to ask about your experience when things started to go downhill. It's hard to find information on what to expect and I'm struggling with understanding if the things Hazel is doing are cancer-related or just that she's now almost 8 and doing things on 3 legs is hard.
Her breathing is fast on and off throughout the day at rest but mostly fast, in an apartment that is a comfortable temperature. After a short walk (with 3 flights of stairs to get inside) she is breathing very heavily with her tongue out for an hour before settling to fast closed-mouth breathing. She is having a lot of urgent potties, mostly soft stools that turn loose. She has become pretty restless throughout the night and breathes heavily. She doesn't like to be in different rooms for too long. Has random skittish spurts where she will get up all of a sudden and move to lay somewhere else.
I am trying to understand the symptoms of mets in the lungs. It seems like the most common symptoms are labored breathing and coughing. She hasn't started coughing yet, just labored breathing.
Can you tell me what things you noticed your dog doing before things were very obvious it was their time?
Thanks in advance for being willing to share. It's so hard to go through this. The unknown is very hard for me.
Hey Madison,
I'm not going to be a ton of help, but wanted to share. My Ellie does have lung mets, but they are still very small and she is showing no symptoms. My vet informed me that dogs usually have to lose about 65% of lung capacity before they start showing clinical symptoms, so if you think her labored breathing is mets an x-ray should show it pretty clearly by this point, I would think.
I would be a little worried that the breathing is pain related specially with the included getting up and moving rooms. Ellie sometimes suddenly stands up and changes places sometimes with a yelp sometimes not, so I have always attributed it to phantom pain , you could try icing her incision area, that's what my rehab therapist recommended in case the nerves around that area are getting pulled on my scar tissue.
I completely understand the unknown being hard, I feel the same, I wish I could know (even if it's bad news) just to free up all the emotional energy that goes to the not knowing.
Ahhhhh.....sweet Hazel. Glad to hear overall you've been having some good quality time. That's what it's all about.
Couple of things come to mind. Take in a stool sample and urine sample. The need for frequent potty can certainly cause her to be unsettled and restless.
At least you can rule out any potential UTI or bacterial infection causing soft stool, Etc
And the other suggestion would be to put her back on gabapentin. The trazodone is a sedative, it doesn't do anything if there is any underlying pain sd she is getting along in years and she may be having some arthritis etc. This will help. I think you had her on 400 mg Gabapentin every 10 hours? Or maybe it was 300 mg every 8 hours? Regardless. You could start with either of those doses. Of course I'm not a vet and not given that advice so talk to you about it.
I do think having to go up and down those lights of steps, and especially if she is having to do it more frequently, would certainly wear her out. I don't know where you live but it has been extremely hot and humid here in Virginia. I know it's wearing my dogs out and they just lay around and pant a lot..
As far as symptoms of potential Mets, just know that every dog reacts differently. As Whitney suggested, you can get X-rays to help give you reassurance or a path forward.
In the case of my happy Hannah she started becoming more lethargic, would Tire easily, and did off and on have spells of change in breathing pattern. Her quality was still good even as these symptoms started showing up. She ate she drank she partied she was happy, wagging her tail etc. I did eventually take her in for an x-ray when a very large met was discovered. I was able to provide some palliative care to keep her as something free as possible for as long as I could. If I recall, prednisone was prescribed and that helped keep down any inflammation around the met. I think I also used low dose of pain med. In most cases with dogs with Mets it's not necessarily a painful saying. Yes, eventually happy Hannah was not able to stay as comfortable as she she needed to have a good quality. Because she wasn't in a horrible pain per se, it was difficult to measure quality. But for me, once I realized she just could not sleep comfortably, or even sleep at all almost, for a night or two or three in a row I knew the scales were tilting out of her favor. And no, she never developed a cause either and always maintain a good attitude, but I wanted to make sure I averted any crisis that would be lurking in the shadows.
So I guess bottom line and to piggy back on Whitney's suggestion go ahead and get an x-ray. If she does have Mets there are definitely things that you can do to continue to keep her comfortable and maintain a good quality. But also do get hurt stool and urine check too and try putting some pain meds back into her system and see if that helps in the meantime.
Sending lots of positive healing energy your way and give that sweet girl lots of smooches and extra treats for us, okay?
Hugs
Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
Hi Madison, welcome back! I'm glad that you posted, because yes, these signs are worrisome when we have no idea what cancer progression will look like in our dog.
You mentioned three flights of stairs. That is a LOT for any dog, is she wearing a Ruffwear Flagline or Webmaster harness so you can help her up the steps? If the staircase isn't as climate controlled as your apartment, she is likely very tired. Also, what is her activity like once she's outside? Is it hot where you are? These temps are really hard on dogs, especially physically compromised ones.
What is her appetite like? Is it decreased? The same?
As for the random yelps, that does sound like phantom leg pain . Did her previous pain signals ever get addressed?
The urgent bathroom breaks could signal any number of things not related to the cancer, like a UTI. Her soft stools might be part of that too. Our Nellie currently has a UTI and her stools were very soft prior to starting the antibiotics to treat it.
I think it's a good idea to have your vet examine her. Try not to panic or think the worst until you have more information, and keep us posted.
Hi Everyone. Thank you so much for your responses. I am so grateful to have this community.
Yes, it is hot here in Manhattan. Her activity level once outside is very happy and interested in sniffing and exploring. I limit her time walking at the hottest points of the day. However, she'd be fine to sit outside all day if I could let her. The urgent bathroom needs are just #2. And it only recently started happening off and on in the past 5 days.
I have a help em up harness that I put on her for going up and down the stairs and assist her mostly just in the back. Her appetite is mostly normal. Every once in a while (1 or 2X/week) she will protest breakfast til the late morning/afternoon. So slightly decreased.
Sorry I might have sounded confusing, no random yelps or barks. Yes, her previous symptoms were addressed. She does have higher anxiety levels than before the surgery. Vet equated that to adapting and feeling unsure of her ability to protect me and herself.
Hazel still acts the same when we have a visitor, the buzzer rings (she LOVES to bark and let UPS know who's boss), all the normal exciting things for a dog.
@benny55 - curious, about the amount of time from when the large met was found to when it was her time. I am trying to understand, and i know all dogs are different, how quickly things could progress once symptoms are revealed and a met is found. If you don't mind sharing how quickly or slowly things changed I would be very grateful.
I will give hazel extra smooches and treats from everyone 
Thank you again, everyone.
-xo,
Hazel and her #1 Fan
Hahaha....cute that Hazel still shows em whose boss!
. If you don't mind sharing how quickly or slowly things changed I would be very grateful.
Don't mind sharing at all , but It really, really does vary dog to dog, location of the met, number, size, etc.
IWhen I finally took Hapoy Hannah in for xray the Vet said it was the size of a baseball! Yes, he actuall said that. He was soooo pleased she was doing relatively well a yway. But I guess the location wasnt taking up a lot of important t lung space. Have no clue. From xray time to release time it was probably about three months, Cant remember for sure.
Now, obviously she had it before then for quite sometime.....I'm guessing....just a guess.... that Happy Hannah probably had it at least two, maybe three months prior while it was small? Maybe? So a total of five or six months maybe??
In her case, over a couple of months she just tired more and more easily. As a Bull Mastiff she enjoyed being a couch potato anyway, so being tired wasn't a big deal. I think it was maybe the last several weeks that the change in breathing pattern became more noticeable off and on. This is when the Prednisone helped. It got to the point in those last few days day the met mist jave been in such a position she had trouble getting her breath co fortavle when laying down. It got better of she sst up, but I interfering with her avilithntomlay down and sleep at that point was the line in the sand for me. Somehow Inhipe this gives you some reassurance that good quality time can be continued even with mets
I think the main time things can be so sort of a crisis is of the mets causes fluid in the lungs, that's when breathing becomes really labored pretty fast. The Bet can drain fluid at thspat point and alleviate the stress for awhile I wanted to avert that and ofnit meant doing "it" a day too soon, then that's the route I took
Don't know of any of this helps. Hope in some way it actually gives you reass and calm and peace.
I think Jerry had mets for over a year. I think Sassy, a Rottie had mets for about eight months.
There really are so many variables and each case really is different. THE most important thing is to not let this crap disease rob you of your time together worrying about the tomorrows. Hazel is happy and doing well and certainly isn't focused on the tomorrows. The NOW is all she knows and, as long as she has you by her side, each mo is the best moment ever.
♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️
Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!
Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!
OK so that heat makes a difference in comfort and stamina. Sounds like you are really doing everything possible to help her get around, and be comfortable. I wouldn't think the worst at this point. Urgent pooping could be anything and honestly I can't recall that ever being a symptom of cancer progression, at least among our members. If other signs change, then definitely talk to your vet.
I am trying to understand, and i know all dogs are different, how quickly things could progress once symptoms are revealed and a met is found. If you don't mind sharing how quickly or slowly things changed I would be very grateful.
You know, what we've seen here is that when mets travel to the lungs, it could be anywhere from one month to one year or longer before it's time to set a dog free. Our Jerry lasted seven months. We saw one dog go two years. It is all over the map. Generally, if the coughing is pretty regular throughout the day, and they are often tired and not eating, or if a small bit of bloody tissue is coughed up, that is generally a sign that the mets are advanced. We have seen that hacking up a clot happen with members, but how fast it happens after mets are discovered is very hard to predict. However, that won't happen to all dogs, it didn't happen to our Jerry even though his mets had advanced. So in short, a cough, accompanied by lethargy and lack of appetite, can be a sign but not always. Hope that helps.
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