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QuoteHenri has an Oncology appointment tomorrow and we are pretty sure we will pursue Metronomic Therapy.
I just do not think Henri nor I can handle traditional IV chemo, especially after he got so sick. The Oncologist explained that he got sick because his white blood cell count went down to like 900 but is supposed to be at 4000 or so. He had an antibiotic injection when he was sick…pretty pricey injection. But with that being said…his bowels are STILL not the same as before the chemo. And not to be graphic but Henri has always been a "GREAT" pooper!
I have been giving him Yogurt and flaxseed but still not really an improvement with the bowels. So…just with my experience with the chemo…I think I made the wrong choice. So we are going to pursue the metronomic therapy. Was hoping to get feedback from those who are or who have experienced it. I also started Henri on grain free food….so maybe that has changed his bowels also???
He got a bath yesterday and smells so so clean and looks handsome! 
It appears he is having trouple with his hind legs…need to get that checked out tomorrow also. 
Henri and I are planning a very special getaway in April to the Mountains….a gorgeous secluded bed and breakfast that allows dogs!
It looks so peaceful! Just a mommy and me trip and I know we will really enjoy our special time together! : ) Henri loves his car rides!!! : )
Hope everyone is having a wonderful day!
Wendy & Henri
10:25 am
Moderator
13 July 2009
OfflineHi Wendy and Henri
Many people from tripawds have done metronomics. Jerry was probably the first, given he founded the website. I believe Jerry started metronomics after the lung mets were found (lots of details are available on jerry's metronomics), but it is wise to start before mets. Maximutt did metronomics following regular chemo and did very well. My Tazzie started metronomics after a subcutaneous met was found. That was a bit late to start, because they supposedly really start to help about 6 to 8 weeks after you begin.
Metronomics, which will probably consist of Cytoxan (but not necessarily), should be much much easier for Henri to handle than regular chemo. One big issue with respect to Cytoxan is the possibility of bladder issues (I think it was cysts). Dr. Pam (of tazziedog) indicates that is less of a problem for a boy – she had to take her Tazzie (girldog) off Cytoxan due to those issues.
As for my Tazzie (boydog), I boiled up heaps of vegies and just made the vegie water (not the vegies) available to him. That resulted in a major flush which probably helps to prevent any bladder cysts. It also seemed to help his kidneys.
In our case (and in Maximutt's case, since his onco prescribed our metronomics), the vet changed the Cytoxan to a different drug after 8 weeks to reduce potential bladder issues.
If you search for 'metronomics' or "anti-angiogenesis' in the archives, you should find lots of material.
Good luck,
Tazzie's Susan
10:30 am
Moderator
14 August 2009
OfflineHenri, your trip sounds terrific!
I hope your tummy gets better soon. Has your vet suggested FortiFlora sprinkles? I believe it's an RX from the vet – that's how I got it. It really seemed to help with Comet's tummy after Xmas when she had issues. I know Henri has been through a lot more than Comet to have stomach issues. (Granny came to visit with sausage and biscuits was on the menu!) But it did help. She's like Henri – has never had poopie problems and it freaked me out when she did. I tried good ol' Pepto and then she got constipated and then I did the pumkin which helped and then the Fortiflora got it all back in order.
I sure hope he gets to feeling better and I sure hate that he is having a hard time.
Comet's mom
P.S. I'm sure others can give you experience with the Metronomic therapy.
Comet - 1999 to 2011She departed us unexpectedly January 23, 2011 at the age of 12 1/2.
She was born with a deformed front leg and a tripawd all of her life.
10:50 am
Team Tripawds
25 April 2007
Offline
keepsmiln1818 said:
… we are going to pursue the metronomic therapy. Was hoping to get feedback from those who are or who have experienced it.
1. Be sure to review the various links we have compiled on the Tripawds Nutrition blog Medications page with existing discussions, and more information and metronomic treatment for cancer in dogs. Specifically, this topic has links to various posts discussing our metronomic experience with Jerry:
Metronomic Therapy Treatment for Canine Osteosarcoma Metastasis
2. Don't miss our recent video interview with Dr. Mona Rosenburg. We'll be posting a detailed interview in Jerry's blog soon, but for now you can watch Part 2 for information about metronomics. (This video is currently #4 in the Tripawds Health playlist.)
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11:53 am
28 November 2008
Online
Hi Wendy. Max was on metronomics from April 09 until October 09, when a tumor was found on his right lung. He did very well with the protocol, never got sick to speak of. His initial prescription was: Cytoxan, Actos, Piroxicam, all pill form. After 8 weeks, the Cytoxan was switched to Leukeran. Sorry, I don't have the mg amounts because I'm currently at work. I always put the pills in his food, and he scarfed them down (small pills). The Cytoxan has to be given in the morning, because it can cause bladder issues. Our onco wanted the Cytoxan in the a.m. so we could monitor his urine output throughout the day (make sure there was no pain, no blockage, no blood, etc). Again, Max did very well on this protocol, and had no nausea/bowel problems to speak of. Good luck to you and Henri, and I hope to see some great photos from your trip to the mountains.
And please don't say you made the wrong choice about his chemo. There are no wrong choices here. That particular chemo just didn't happen to work out for Henri, think of it that way instead. We had a similar experience with Max toward the end of his illness. And yes, I think your change of food could affect his bowels, so that's a possibility also.
Diane
12:44 pm
Team Tripawds
25 April 2007
Offline
maximutt said:
And please don't say you made the wrong choice about his chemo. There are no wrong choices here. That particular chemo just didn't happen to work out for Henri, think of it that way instead.
Wiser words have never been spoken! I agree 100 pawcent.
Meanwhile, I just wanted to let you know that I didn't have any major issues either. It worked great for me. The only issue was that I couldn't eat much cottage cheese, canned salmon or mackerel after going on it. Something about that combo and those richer foods just made my poo really runny.
And no worries, you can always talk about poo issues with us! Speaking of, you may want to nix the yogurt. Dairy products can cause runniness in sensitive bellies. And overall, a change in diet may do that for a few days. Remember the old pumpkin trick (canned, pulp pumpkin, not pumpkin pie mix!), or steamed sweet potatoes can help firm things up.
Let us know how the visit goes OK?
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7:17 pm
2 November 2009
Offline
I'm so glad that you brought up this topic Wendy as I am considering Metronomics now that we have finished Mackenzie's chemo (she had 5 in total.) Thanks everyone for your input on this – very informative. I was also going to post a discussion on this to see how your tripawds responded to this. Sounds like it is a good treatment option. Besides the bladder issues, I was wondering if there are other side effects like nausea. I will definitely check out Jerry's links as I'm sure there is a lot of great information on this.
Wendy, enjoy your getaway with Henri- sounds like a perfect way to spend time with him. Love the mommy and me description. Mackenzie loves to ride in the car too - her favorite place besides swimming and would love to have a mommy and me trip without her younger brother in tow :). Enjoy!
Kami (Mackenzie's Mom)
Hi Wendy and Henri,
Sorry if you have already mentioned….but I noticed a comment you wrote…. You mentioned hind leg issues. Has Henri been on Metronidazole or Flagyl (same drug) lately for his bowels? If so, that may/can be a side effect of that particular drug………
Hoping for better days for you both,
Gina
Good point Gina. Henri should try to figure out his hind leg issues before starting any new treatment.
As for other side effects of metronomics (other than bladder issues), I can't recall any. Tazzie took the Cytoxan first thing in the morning, along with some vegie water, then ate an hour later (if my work schedule enabled that). That seems to be the recommended schedule for humans. But lots of other pups took the Cytoxan with food first thing in the morning. Just try to get your pup to drink a lot when taking Cytoxan to reduce possibility of bladder issues.
I think Tazzie started to lose a bit more hair with Cytoxan, but he never really stopped losing hair since he started regular chemo so that is hard to say (it did get better with the power mushrooms). I doubt most dogs would have that issue. No sign of nausea when on Cytoxan, no major side effects. He was his usual ravenous self (and he was not that way on IV chemo).
I would agree that FortiFlora (or other probiotic) could help your dog with the soft stool. Grain -free foods are great but it does take some time for the body to adjust. I have had luck doing an intermediate diet first. I really like the Natura pet food line so before I switch a dog to EVO I will start the dog on California Natural for a few weeks first, then gradually add the EVO over the next few weeks. There are other good brands to try but make sure that they are all natural! I really like the new EVO Herring diet for the cancer dogs because they get the benefit of the extra fish oil and EVO also has added probiotics.
I would consult with your vet about the metronomics. I tried the meloxicam (Metacam) and Cytoxan with Tazzie but had to stop the Cytoxan after 6 weeks due to a bad bladder infection. I tried my other dog Kona on Zubrin and CCNU for intestinal cancer but had to stop that due to elevated liver enzymes. Kona is still alive 1 year post-surgery and I have her mostly on holistic meds. She gets an herb called Stasis Breaker that is supposed to help reduce new blood vessel formation and so far her mass has remained small on the ultrasound. You would have to see a holistic vet to get this herb but it is very cheap. I know that OSA is a more aggressive cancer than others but if all else fails or if you want to avoid chemo altogether then I would try that (no side effects).
Pam
12:26 am
7 February 2010
Offline
Hi Henri, it's Mika here - your Feb 18 ampu-buddy…
I hope you don't mind me asking, but about how much monthly is your metronomic therapy? I'm not doing it (just diet change and homeopathic supplements), but maybe it's something my mom should look into further. :)
xoxo,
Mika the Wonder Dog
2:40 am
Moderator
28 November 2008
Offline
Don't have any advice about metronomic therapy, but wanted to add my support and encouragment. Henri's having a bit of a time settling into a protocol, but don't let that discourage you. You'll find something that works for him with fewer side effects. Keep the faith – tripawds rule!
Shanna & Spirit Trouble ~ Trouble gained her wings 3/16/2011, a 27 1/2 month cancer survivor, tail wagging RIP sweetheart, you are my heart and soul. Run free at Rainbow Bridge.We honor our fellow November Five members who will always remain forever in my heart: Nova – the lone survivor, live proud and long; Spirits Max, Cherry, & Tika – who made half the journey with us and greeted Trouble at the Bridge
http://k9cancer.org – a canine cancer support community
2:23 pm
Hi there! I'm a first time poster here but frequent lurker and member of BoneCancerDogs. My girl Daggit isn't a Tripaw b/c she didn't have OS in the limb. However, we did Metronomic for 6 months so I thought I'd chime in.
I'd do it again in a heartbeat. Here is Daggit's protocol:
- Cyclophoshamide (Cytoxan): this is her chemo given once in the morning every other day (25 mg)
- Deramaxx: anti-inflammatory (25 mg every day)
- Doxycycline: anti-biotic (100 mg)
- Lasix: this is a diuretic (10 mg). Cytoxan commonly causes bladder infections. Lasix was meant for her to urinate more frequently for 12 hours after treatment. This is also given every other day with the chemo pill. Her oncologist said to encourage her to drink more water on these days, too.
The bladder infection issues have been mentioned … but I dont think I saw anyone else's pup prescribed a diuretic like Daggit was. She had no issues with any of the meds. We had two pee-pee accidents inside the house (which were my fault) … she did pee frequently but I really increased her fluids particularly on chemo day.
Someone asked about cost. It's well-under the cost of IV chemo. All of the above are human-grade meds (Deramaxx is canine-specific) so I got her scripts filled at Walgreen's. The Cytoxan, Doxy and Lasix cost about $55 total (the cytoxan being the most at $35 and the others were $10 each). The pharmacist even gave me 90 days worth of the Lasix for $10. Deramaxx was costing me $68 at the vet;however, I had her write a prescription and got it filled at a Pet Rx online for $28 + $5 shipping. All together, MP was costing me about $80/mo. Quite manageable compared to many treatment plans.
I hope this helps! 
Nicole & Daggit
6:43 pm
Moderator
14 August 2009
OfflineThanks Nicole and Daggit!
We certainly appreciate you helping us out with your information!
Comet - 1999 to 2011She departed us unexpectedly January 23, 2011 at the age of 12 1/2.
She was born with a deformed front leg and a tripawd all of her life.
7:30 pm
2 November 2009
Offline
Hi Nicole and Daggit (what a cute name), thanks for this informtion. I'm currently considering metronomic pending my Mackenzie's test results on a UTI she just had (whether it's cleared up or not.) This is very helpful and makes me feel better about this. She's already gone through 5 carboplatin treatments so I don't want to do anything more that will add more side effects, discomfort, etc. Please chime in anytime!
Thanks! Kami (Mackenzie's Mom)
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