Caring for a Three Legged Dog or Cat
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I've spent the better part of 3 hours reading through various posts on this forum as well as other info on the internet regarding Artemisinin , Butyrex, K9 Immunity Plus and vitamins, and I've got some questions specific to our situation. Most of the notes I took were from posts made by Pam (tazziedog)--what a great help she is!
Our situation: Stella was diagnosed with osteosarcoma and is 6 weeks post-amp. Two sets of lung x-ray panels have been taken, and there are no visible signs of mets right now. We have decided not to go forward with any type of chemo. When I asked the oncologist we saw about Artemisinin and K9 Immunity , he said, and I quote, "Some people are making a lot of money on something that doesn't work." Well I want to try!! Based on what I've read today, this is the "protocol" I'd like to take with her, but I would like input to confirm whether this is okay. FYI--Stella weighs 37 pounds and eats Wellness Core Grain Free kibble with a grain-free canned topper.
What I'd like to do:
Mornings with breakfast:
1 Vitamin C pill (but what dosage??)
1 Vitamin E pill (but what dosage??)
1 Fish Oil pill
1 K9 Immunity
Plus pill
Evening with dinner:
1 Fish Oil pill
1 K9 Immunity
Plus pill
Before Bed:
1 Artemisinin
pill given with a dairy product (but what dosage? I see it comes in 50 mg and 100 mg)
1 Butyrex pill (again--what dosage?)
I read that Pam recommended giving the Artemisinin and Butyrex once daily for 8 weeks, then giving them every other day after that.
I'm sorry this is so long, but with the way my mind works, I have to have this set out like this or I'll get confused!! Is there anything that should be added or changed??
Your help is so very much appreciated...
Offline
Hi,
I am also treating Porthos' OSA with Artimisinin, butyrex, k9 immunity, k9 Transfer factor.
Ive read that you can should also add vit D3 at the same time as the Artimisinin (which should be given in the evening 3-4 hrs after dinner)
We only had him on if for 8 days before his pain backed us into a corner and we had to either amputate or let him go so we never really new if the supplements were making a diference.
We amputated and Monday he will get he stitiches out so I will then start him back on his supplements again.
Here is a link to
a Yahoo Artimisinin cancer group that are treating their dogs different cancers using Artimisinin http://pets.gro.....nd_cancer/
If you go to the 'files' section of the group there is information on dosage, you can also contact Dr Singh who is doing research on Artimisinin and cancer, alot of people in the group use his dosage recommendations, his contact details should be in the 'files' section also. There should also be links to where you can buy the art, I have Artemix, which is a mixture of 3 different arts from http://www.hepa.....rtemix.htm and Artimisinin at http://www.holl.....harma.com/
Porthos' protocal before the amputation was aimend at trying to reduce the size and pain of the tumor, his new protocal will be aimed at trying to reduce the spread of mets and and helping with any pain or inflamation of his joints.
I will post his new protocal as soon as ive typed it up, im onto the second of the post amp (hell weeks!) so am a little frazled!
I hope this helps,
Warm wishes to you and your pup.
P.S Also have a look at something called C-Statin.
Angel Porthos, Pyrenean Mastiff, 7 years old Os front right leg, DX 18 May 2012, Amputation 14 June 2012, Hip Dysplasia, Two TPLO surgeries. Is now somewhere over the rainbow, 21 November 2013.
Great--thank you for the info! I've put a request in to join the group.
I read about using Artemix and Artimisinin together, but I'm a little afraid of the Artemix since one of the ingredients can be quite toxic if given incorrectly. I know I should just make sure I give it correctly, but I still worry!
It sounds like Porthos is making a nice recovery. It does get easier--the second week of Stella's recovery definitely was the worst due to a sarcoma that just wouldn't go away! Everything is great now though, so it definitely does get better.
Thanks again for the info!
Shelley & Stella
Dr. Singh (one of 2 experts on this at UoW) suggests Artemix is the better bet for fighting existing cancer cases - since it has 3 versions of the herb in it, and each works differently (e.g. one is fat-soluble, one water-soluble, etc.) you get more coverage for how it's working in the dog's system. The artemether in Artemix is the one to be careful w/ so that is the one you figure the dosage on. Calculate the dose based on 1 to 2mg of artemether/lb of body weight, so since Stella is just under 40lbs, and there are 40 mg of artemether in Artemix, it's an easy calc of either 1 or 2 Artemix. If you are worried about the artemether, you could just give her 1 artemix and supplement with additional artemisinin . I've seen various dosage for artemisinin - anywhere from 2mg/lb/day to 16mg/lb/day. Dr. Singh is on the low end of that spectrum. (Studies showed no toxicity problems until they got up into the 300+mg/lb/day - so you'd be WAY below that anywhere on that spectrum.)
For the Butyrex (get it from either Holley Pharmaceuticals or Jigsaw Health), Dr. Singh recommends 4 capsules for an 80lb. dog, so 2 for Stella.
We gave Abby (47lbs) two Artemix per day, plus 100mg of plain artemisinin and 2 Butyrex. She had zero adverse effects from it. As for the D3, I didn't see any recommendation from Dr. Singh as to the amount.
For C & E he recommends 500 mg for the C and 400 of the E. He didn't specify what size dog - but as far as I can remember when I was looking for C/E online, I didn't see capsules with any less than that, so just went w/ that for Abby.
I wrote a big long thing on all this for the Nutrition blog which will hopefully be up shortly.
As for what your onc. said, I read (and I don't know if this is true or not) that vets are reluctant to encourage any kind of herbal supplements because their liability insurance only covers traditional medicines that they recommend. Again - I don't know if that's true. Our onc was not super familiar with arte but he was fine with me giving supplements to Abby. He said, and I quote (in his cute Southern accent), "Hell, if it was my dog, I'd have him on everything but rollerskates!"
Hope that helps.
Jackie
Abby: Aug 1, 2009 – Jan 10, 2012. Our beautiful rescue pup lived LARGE with osteosarcoma for 15 months – half her way-too-short life. I think our "halflistic" approach (mixing traditional meds + supplements) helped her thrive. (PM me for details. I'm happy to help.) She had lung mets for over a year. They took her from us in the end, but they cannot take her spirit! She will live forever in our hearts. She loved the beach and giving kisses and going to In-N-Out for a Flying Dutchman. Tripawds blog, and a more detailed blog here. Please also check out my novel, What the Dog Ate. Now also in paperback! Purchase it at Amazon via Tripawds and help support Tripawds!
He said, and I quote (in his cute Southern accent), "Hell, if it was my dog, I'd have him on everything but rollerskates!"
LOL! thanks for that, that really cheered me up!
Angel Porthos, Pyrenean Mastiff, 7 years old Os front right leg, DX 18 May 2012, Amputation 14 June 2012, Hip Dysplasia, Two TPLO surgeries. Is now somewhere over the rainbow, 21 November 2013.
This is where I would recommend finding an oncologist who is more open-minded supportive of what you want to pursue. They are definitely out there (my oncologist was, and we know several who are), and if they do not practice this type of treatment, a supportive one will know where to send you.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
I'm going to speak to my vet and see how much he knows about all of this. He's not an oncologist, but he is a fantastic vet, and I think he'll be receptive to this treatment plan. He may be able to point me in the direction of another oncologist, but if he can't, we'll just go without one for now.
I'm going to be on an online ordering frenzy tomorrow!! 
Angel Abby's mom gave you a great summary. I would agree with the 500 mg of Vitamin C and 400 IU of Vitamin E. I had Tazzie on the lower dose of the Butyrex and artemisinin because she had liver issues. I checked her bloodwork many times while she was on this protocol and she never had any issues with it.
Dr Singh is indeed very helpful. My oncologist was fine with this protocol although I did wait until Tazzie had finished her injectable chemo.
Pam
Sadly, our (very experienced) oncologist in the UK seems very much of the same opinion re comp therapies. However, we've decided to push ahead at least with artemix and immunovet (avemar). Wish we had an onc like Jackie's (AngelAbbysMom)!
I see that Pam (tazziedog)is waiting until the chemo protocol has finished. Has anyone any experience of using comp therapies such as artemix or avemar, alongside chemo? We're also considering using PolyMVA and C-Statin. I believe that the most recent info from Dr Singh was that he wasn't aware of any info re using chemo and arte.
As our beautiful boy Logan has TCC affecting his bladder and urethra, we don't want to wait too long before we make our decision.
Warm regards
Garry
Hi Garry - welcome to you and Logan. He's so cute!
When I emailed with Dr. Singh last year about starting Abby on arte, he suggested waiting until we were done with Palladia - an at home chemo pill we were giving her as part of her MP (Metronomic Protocol). We stopped the Palladia after 3 months due to GI issues, and then started the arte while she was still on daily doses of Cytoxan and Piroxicam. He said he just couldn't recommend using it with Palladia or while on IV chemo as the combination of chemo and arte had not been researched. Like I said, that was a year ago, but I'm pretty sure it is still the same advice given.
Keep us posted on how Logan is doing,
Jackie
Abby: Aug 1, 2009 – Jan 10, 2012. Our beautiful rescue pup lived LARGE with osteosarcoma for 15 months – half her way-too-short life. I think our "halflistic" approach (mixing traditional meds + supplements) helped her thrive. (PM me for details. I'm happy to help.) She had lung mets for over a year. They took her from us in the end, but they cannot take her spirit! She will live forever in our hearts. She loved the beach and giving kisses and going to In-N-Out for a Flying Dutchman. Tripawds blog, and a more detailed blog here. Please also check out my novel, What the Dog Ate. Now also in paperback! Purchase it at Amazon via Tripawds and help support Tripawds!
HI there
Re: doing complimentary therapies along with chemo (Carboplatin).
Well, we did everything! Our oncologist was very open minded and knew we needed to throw everything at this disease - osteosarcoma.
Some of the studies were coming out with positive results with combining therapies. We are one year on and she is still doing well. (fingers -crossed permanently 😉
Here is a list of what we have been doing for over a year now and continuing them all (except the chemo of course)
Vitamineral Green and Earth from “Healthforce Nutritionals” I have to put these in capsules as it has a strong green flavour but the Earth is ok in the fud.
Berry Green from New Chapter.
Zyflamend; Zyflamend is a truly potent combo of ten herbs.
Mushrooms. NSI Vitacost.
Fish oil for the omega 3′s. She has 4 grams a day to start.
Multi vitamin, vitamin C + E, (zinc occasionally).
Primadophilus – a probiotic + saccharomyces boulardii
Curamed (Terry’s Naturals) Curcumin extract + extra turmeric.
Transfer Factor from Source Naturals.
Artemisinin a la cream cheese – at least 2 hours after dinner. (Doctor’s Best brand)
Pycnogenal- (pine bark)
75mg Carprofen
(We started Metronomic Protocol but discontinued)
We did add all these in very slowly one by one in case any caused a reaction but so far it's working 🙂
She is also on a grain free high protein diet.
Joanne & Lylee
http://lyleegir.....ipawds.com
Jackie,
Your post gives me hope about my pup. He has lived for 17 months post-amputation with his osteosarcoma. We gave the traditional chemo treatment, now they have discovered a lung nodule so we are back on chemo but I am also dosing with artemisinin and some Chinese herbs (Xaio chai hu tang) from Kingdom of Basil. I was thinking we only have a few months left with him but you said your dog lived for a year with lung mets! That's awesome to hear! I am hoping for the same for Rocky.
One question is, does the arte need to be combined with butyrex as well? We are giving it alone but I have seen many posts with the butyrex. What does the butyrex add? Thanks for your help.
Beth
Hi Beth, thanks for sharing your dog's story. Please consider registering as a member so your posts won't need approval and we can better follow along with Rocky's journey.
In the meantime, we recommend consulting with a vet who specializes in Eastern medicine so that you can get the right dosages and combination for your particular dog. I'm sure you've seen Path with Paws before, but if not we highly recommend Dr. McCullough. Here is the Path with Paws interview we did for Tripawd Talk Radio .
Best wishes to you and Rocky.
Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet
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