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My mastiff is waking up screaming at night
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Member Since:
25 May 2016
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25 May 2016 - 10:34 pm
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Hi all, my boy Mac just had his leg amputated on Friday (6 days ago) and was doing great. He is eating well, drinking off and on, and will use the restroom when I remind him to go.
He is 120lbs and was on 200 to 300 mgs of tramadol 2 to 3 times a day. Also was on rymydil 100mgs 2x daily. We stopped the rymydil because he was a bit constipated. He was acting really anxious and not sleeping at night the last 3 nights. He'd want outside constantly but would only go 20 feet and lay in the grass and refuse to come back in. I was worried about his pain and started the tramadol 3x daily yesterday.
Last night he started waking up screaming. It was as if he had vroken his leg off and loud enough to wake up everyone in the house. He would scream for 15 to 20 seconds and then stop and wag his tail and pant a bit. He did this every 2 to 3 hours last night. It didn't seem as though he was actually hurting so much as he seemed completely freaked out. As soon as I pet him he calms right back down.
Has anyone else experienced this? The surgeon has never heard of it, but my regular vet said she'd heard of it with tramadol. Both said to stop the pain meds tonight and see what happens, I'm still a little worried about his pain tonight, although he seems ok right now.

Thoughts?

Livermore, CA




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26 May 2016 - 8:51 am
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Hi and welcome, your future posts will not have to wait for approval.

How did Mac do last night?

What you describe sounds like phantom limb pain, click on the link for information.  Talk to your vet about adding gabapentin to the pain med mix- many have had good luck with that to help the phantom limb pain.

I would be very careful about stopping the tramadol- 6 days out from a major surgery is very early to go off pain meds.  From my experience and what I have seen on this site the screaming is most likely not caused by the tramadol.  Tram will make pets agitated, which you also describe. 

Again from my experience the constipation is probably caused by the tramadol, not the rimadyl. For constipation you might try adding some plain pumpkin to his food or even a bit of olive oil.

Balancing pain, pain meds and the side effects of pain meds is one of the toughest parts of this process. 

Karen and the Spirit Pug Girls

Tri-pug Maggie survived a 4.5 year mast cell cancer battle only to be lost to oral melanoma.

1999 to 2010

 

              Maggie's Story                  Amputation and Chemo

Member Since:
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26 May 2016 - 9:35 am
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Hi

Sorry to hear you're going through a bit of a rough time at the moment. I totally remember how much the pain management sucked. I'm just reiterating what Karen said really , sounds like it could definitely phantom limb. Has Mac had any twitching around his amputation site?

Around 7/8 days after our dog Beau had his amputation, he started screaming, sometimes out of the blue when he was laying down, sometimes when he was moving from one room to another, he's suddenly scream and have to lay down until we could calm him. Usually only lasted about 10 seconds but seemed like a lifetime. It started to get more regular so I pestered our vet to prescribe some gabapentin. Once Beau had that on board, within a day or two it started to become less frequent, after a week or two it went away completely and we could stop the gabapentin. I'd definitely get onto your vet and ask for a prescription if they are willing to do so.

As Karen said, it seems too early to stop the Tramadol, if we had our leg amputated, I can't imagine we'd be giving up our pain meds quite so soon. Tramadol and gabapentin can be given at the same time and they work on to different pain receptors (gabapentin works on nerve pain if I'm correct) so you can keep that pesky pain at bay from both angles.

Keep connected, sounds like your doing great so far, you're nearly over the worst now, it's going to get easier.

Hannah, Beau & Family

Virginia







Member Since:
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26 May 2016 - 9:53 am
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Sorry you find yourself here. Under the circumstances though, there's no better place to be for support and information and understanding.

What's your Mastifg's name? Why the amputation? Front leg or rear? Sounds like he's just going out for potty breaks, so not overdoing it. That's good. Eating snd drinking, all good. You might try a little chicq broth or even swirlq in a scoop of ice crew to make sure he stays hydrated.

Not a vet, however, do check out phantom limb pain. The nerves are firing off signals to a leg that's not there. Usually the dogs react with loud yelps or cries. Sometimes they try to jump up and move away from the pain. It hurts!!!!! Fortunately, it lasts for seconds and not minutes. You did exactly right by being by his side and comforting him throuh it. You can GENTLY massage around the incision site. You can also sort of lightly cup your hand around the incision site. Eventually these episodes will go away once the brain stops sending messages to the nerves.

The SOLUTION...yes, there is a solution! Have your vet give you GABAPENTIN. It is proven to help relieve phzntom pain. Most dogs here are sent home with Rimadyl, Tramadol, Gabapentin and an antibiotic. Most dogs here, stay on these anywhere from two to three weeks. Every dog is different, so this is just an "in general" guideline.

This is MAJOR surgery. You have a large pup. He needs pain meds. Yes, sometimes tramadol can make dogs restless and a bit whacky. What you described hiwever, sounds like phantom pain znd he needs Gabapentin for that. I'm sorry yiur surgeon was out of the loop on that.

The Rimadyl helps with the inflammation and, as long as there are no side effects, I would get him back on that. As Karen said, the pain meds generally cause the constipation. Try pure pumpkin...not the sugary pie filling. It will do wonders.

Has he pooped yet at all?

Hang in there. This recovery period is no picnic, that's for sure! You are on an emotional roller coaster, exhausted, and stressed out! It does get better!!!!

STAY CONNECTED! YOU ARE NOT ALONE!! Update when you can. AND, we would love to see pictures!! I already know he's a cuddle bug...he's a Mastiff! 🙂

Hugsand smooch the mug for me...drool and all!

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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26 May 2016 - 10:27 am
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I had a similar situation with my Dane. I went through about a week of no night sleeping and whinning/ panting/ crying at night. We started Gabapentin and significantly dropped the dosage of tramadol. I am sure everyone does not have the same experience but the tramadol made my dog very restless. 

Maryland
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26 May 2016 - 11:21 am
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Just chiming in to agree w/ others about giving Gabapentin a try. And that too much Tramadol can make some dogs (not all) anxious/panting. And that they work in two different ways, so giving both is sort of attacking the pain from two directions! And, lastly, pain management is usually hard for everyone. Each dog is different, each vet is different so you just need to figure out what works for you and your pup.

The trick to pain management is to stay ahead of it. It is harder to control once it starts. I know we always felt the fewer drugs the better, but amputation is a major surgery and most dogs need pain control for the first two or three weeks (and then tapering off). 

Denise, Bill and Angel Ellie.

Active 10+ Pyr mix suddenly came up lame with ACL tear in left rear leg. Scheduled for a TPLO but final pre-op x-rays indicated a small suspicious area, possibly OSA, which could have caused the ACL tear. Surgeon opened the knee for TPLO but found soft bone. Biopsy came back positive for OSA. Became a Tripawd 9/18/14. Carbo6 with Cerenia and Fluids. Pain free and living in the moment. Crossed the Bridge on 7/12/15 after probable spread of cancer to her cervical spine. A whole lifetime of memories squeezed into 10 months. Here's her story: Eloise

Orrtanna Pa.
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25 January 2014
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26 May 2016 - 1:27 pm
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Everyone has given great advice! Gabapentin is awesome for phantom pain . I always heard not to stop Tramadol cold turkey. I agree with those above that Rimadyl rarely causes constipation. Usually it is the opposite. I am pretty amazed that your vet said to take away ALL pain meds. Maybe try halving his Tramadol dosage. Adding the Gabapentin may allow you to do that. This is just sort of repeating what others have said, just mainly wanted to tell you that it does get better. Just muddle through the next week and a half and I think you will see a vast improvement. Lori, Ty and gang

TY GUY, Best Black Lab ever! Diagnosed  and had amp in January, 2014. Kicked MRSA's butt. Earned his angel wings on April 16, 2014. Run Free my boy and don't forget a shoe. Ty is a proud member of the " April Angels". Ty sent us Daryl, a Tripawd rescue in Sept. of 2016. Daryl is 5 +or -. We are also Pawrents to Chandler, a Border Collie mix who is 15 and 1/2, Lucy, a Corgi who is 7, 2 minis, 2 horses, and a feisty cat named Zoe. Zoe had a non skeletal Osteosarcoma removed in July 2015. No Chemo, she was at least 16. She is going strong although she is now completely blind. She is now close to 20 and her hobbies are eating and sleeping in front of her personal heater. 

On The Road


Member Since:
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26 May 2016 - 1:37 pm
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I'm a ditto-head here and totally agree with everyone's insight. How's Mac doing today?

When you get a chance, do check out our articles about pain management , they'll help:

http://tripawds.....ment-tips/

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

Member Since:
25 May 2016
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27 May 2016 - 12:19 am
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Mac did better last night, he seems to have the problems at the exact same time every day. First episode is around 12:50 to 1AM, next is 3am, and last is between 6:30and 7am. He did cry out last night but it was sooooo much better. It only lasted 3 to 6 seconds and it was much quieter. He was more alert and happy this morning without the tramadol, but after a walk around the yard to lay in the shade I could tell he was a bit uncomfortable. I gave him 150mgs of tramadol and called the vet for gabapentin. The tramadol made him really anxious all afternoon and that was half of the does he was supposed to receive. I am going to try to avoid tramadol if at all possible because he doesn't seem to handle it well. He is better than my last dog who would get seizures from it though, and ironically I am allergic to it as well haha.

I filled the rx for gabapentin this afternoon and he got his first dose about 6 or 7 hours ago, I just woke him up for his second. This seems to knock him out pretty well, but when I did wake him for his meds he whimpered himself to sleep, but he hasn't done the screaming thing since late morning so there is progress there!

He did poop and pee all on his own today (no hovering and saying go potty for 15 minutes), although the gabapentin has knocked him out and he hasn't been out in 8 to 10 hours so I'm a bit worried, but I also don't want to wake him up and make him walk around when he seems so comfy right now.

Thank you all for the advice, I am definitely leaning to phantom pains, although the tram didn't help.

I will attempt to attach a pic if I can figure it out haha, this site is much better from a computer as the phone one I couldn't even find my post.

I attempted and can not figure out the picture part lol. But here is the link to his gofundme and it has pictures before the amputation

gofund.me/23dejjw 

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27 May 2016 - 12:34 am
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Oh, and to answer a few questions I forgot. He had is right front leg removed due to osteosarcoma. He is in a clinical trial at UC Davis and should get his first round of chemo next Wednesday.



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21 May 2016
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27 May 2016 - 5:56 am
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Hi there Mac and mom heart

My girl had her front leg amputated May,4th and she came back home on May, 8th.

My story is different from the other doggy moms and dads above. 

Her medicine was Therios (an antibiotic) Metacam (once a day) and Gabapentin (twice a day) I also was given Tramadol to use in an emergency but luckily she never seriously showed any pain so we could skip that. Like Eloise's mom I try to avoid medication if at all possible.

She was supposed to take Gabapentin for a longer period but on Friday 13th (luckily I am not superstitious) she had a horrible episode where she started panting like mad, her eyes moving around like mad, the white part was bloodshot, her pupils were fully dilated and she was totally unresponsive to movement (I moved my hands right in front of her eyes) or sound (I called her and spoke to her) this all lasted 10/15 minutes.

Between the 8th and the 13th she panted a lot and was restless at night but I was never aware of this loss of conscience.

I sent the hospital a video of her during that crisis and called them and they said this was very unusual and to stop Gabapentin immediately and see how she was in the morning.

Well, she got much better the next day and had good sleepy nights ever since, no panting or restless behaviour. 

So, her reaction was to Gabapentin and not Metacam because we continued Metacam with no problems. 

Hope this helps just in case a similar thing happens with Mac, fingers and paws crossed it won't!

Sending you both kisses and cuddles heart

Eurydice 77kg/170lb Great Dane limping end of April 2016, amputation (right front leg/osteosarcoma) 4 May 2016 6 courses of carboplatin followed by metronomic therapy, lung mets found 30 Nov 2016. 3 courses of doxorubicin, PET scan 26 Jan 2017 showed more mets so stopped chemo. Holistic route April 2017. Lung X-ray 5 May 2017 showed several tennis ball size mets, started cortisone and diuretics. Miss Cow earned her XXL silver wings 12 June 2017, 13 months and 1 week after amputation and 6 1/2 months after lung mets, she was the goofiest dawg ever and is now happily flying from cloud to cloud woof woofing away :-) 

Minneapolis, MN
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23 April 2016
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27 May 2016 - 7:04 am
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Hi, Macsmomma:

Gabapentin works differently than Tramadol - Tramadol works on the brain while Gabapentin specifically treats the nerves.  And Rimadyl is an anti-inflammatory.  

It will take a little time for the Gabapentin to reach full effect and also for him to adjust, but hopefully the sedative effect will abate as he does. 

Hope he is feeling much better soon.

Lisa and Pofi

Lisa, Minneapolis

On October 27, 2016, nearly 6 months after amputation, and 18 months since his cancer likely started, we lost Pofi to a recurrence of Soft Tissue Sarcoma in his spine quite suddenly.  His canine sister also succumbed to cancer on March 1, 2019 - we lavished her with our love in the interim, but life was never quite the same without her only real canine friend. Cliff kitty had to leave us, too, suddenly, in August 2019. Lucia kitty grieved all these losses, but helped us welcome two new Lurchers into our home and our lives, Shae and Barley.

Blog: Pofi, Peripheral Nerve Sheath Tumor Amputation

On The Road


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27 May 2016 - 10:40 am
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Really glad to hear you got the Gabapentin. Here's an article about it for you.

It's pawesome that you're working with UC Davis, they are GREAT! That's where our Jerry had his amp, and we know some of the hospital folks well. Awesome institution.

Mac is so gorgeous!

Image Enlarger

Here's a post about adding images to the Forums, let me know if you'd like help. I know you're only trying to show photos from your gofundme page and that's cool, but please keep in mind the Tripawds Fundraising policy doesn't allow direct appeals to members. Thanks!

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

Virginia







Member Since:
22 February 2013
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27 May 2016 - 12:32 pm
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Soooo glad things are settling down a bit!! Every teeny weeny step forward is a huge VICTORY during this recovery period. And pooping and peeing unassisted...YAY!!clap

The picture of Mac is absolutely gorgeous! It is truly a "magazine quality cover photo"!

Yeah, the Gabapentin can have a sedation effect in some dogs. Check with your vet in athe day or two. It may be that you can either spread the dose out a bit further or reduce the dose a bit. You'll find the right balance. Seems to be managing his pain and that's what's important.

You're doing a great job! Can't wait to see more pictures of your ADORABLE MAC! 🙂

Hugs!

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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25 May 2016
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27 May 2016 - 1:42 pm
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The gabapentin knocked him out. He actually slept pretty much the entire afternoon yesterday and all the way until 6am this morning. I stayed up all night with him in the living room just in case he had reactions to this drug as well. He will still whimper occasionally, but only maybe 1 or 2 times during the day (so far) although you can definitely tell the drug is sedating him as he is a bit wobbly and incoherent when he does get up. I just put his harness on and help him walk out to the grass as we have hard wood and he will slip a bit.

So far today he's been great, other than super sleepy. No phantom pains so far, just very long naps.

Oh, and I was just sharing the gofundme for the pics, not for donations. Still learning how to do stuff on here haha.

Thanks for all your help so far!heart

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