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Manni update -x-ray pics + primary vs. mets, palladia vs. endoscopy | Treatment, Recovery and Oncology

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Manni update -x-ray pics + primary vs. mets, palladia vs. endoscopy
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Germany
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21 July 2017 - 2:57 pm
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Here's a quick update from over here: 

we had an appointment today with the professor at our clinic to talk things through again. Manni has been on Palladia for two weeks now with no side-effects so far (we had a minor scare this past Monday with hind-end lameness but that's been resolved). 

Of course, as apparently usual for us, we never do anything by the books. It appears from the x-rays, which I will include further down, that Manni does not have the usual appearance of mets but rather one (big old) tumor. The doctor we went to today is one of the few that I trust, because he has a way of very bluntly informing me of all available options and so far he's always been at the top of his game. He is very sure that the tumor is a metastasis but he also agrees that the xrays are very atypical and leave room for speculation as to whether this may be a primary lung tumor after all.

We now agreed that in order to see if the Palladia is working AND to be real certain on what the tumor is, we will be doing a CT scan in August. IF (that's a big if, mind you) it is a primary tumor they would be willing and able to do surgery. I decided there is no way I would let them open Manni's ribcage but they may (depending on the CT) be able to do an endoscopy, which has risks in the anesthesia but would be minimally invasive. This, I would -probably- agree on.

Mind you: it is highly unlikely that we are not talking mets here! However: I would like your opinions, no matter if pro or con, please.  

If you want to see a Tennisball-sized lung tumor, look no further:

Manni2.pngImage Enlarger

Manni.pngImage Enlarger

and just so I don't get yelled at by Sally, here's a proper Manni-pic from today...

Datei-21.07.17-11-25-53.jpegImage Enlarger

Guardian of Manni the Wonderdog. -Or was it the other way around?
Osteo and amputation in Dec 2015. Second, inoperable, primary osteosarcoma found in June 2017.
The end of our adventures came Dec 10, 2017. 2 years to the day.

Manni's blog -dogblog-

Germany
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21 July 2017 - 3:01 pm
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...and I suppose I should really change my signature...

sad

Guardian of Manni the Wonderdog. -Or was it the other way around?
Osteo and amputation in Dec 2015. Second, inoperable, primary osteosarcoma found in June 2017.
The end of our adventures came Dec 10, 2017. 2 years to the day.

Manni's blog -dogblog-

Santa Fe, NM
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21 July 2017 - 3:27 pm
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Holy smokes! Manni does not do anything by halves, does he? And I'm not certain what I should be rooting for here - a primary lung cancer tumor? So many things wrong with that on so many levels.

I'm hoping/guessing the CT will be early August?

and of course we all appreciate all photos of Mr. Manni. Sally's the only one that hollers at us for the lack.

Paws crossed here and thinking pawsitive thoughts for you and the wonderdog.

cyber hugs to you both!

love

Teri, Roxy and Angel Isa

Right rear leg amp 7/12/16 due to OSA. Metastatic lesion on her right front leg, January 2017. Joined the Winter Warriors January 19, 2017. Run free my sweet girl.

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21 July 2017 - 3:58 pm
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Wow!  That's very different from Otis' mets x-ray.  Hopefully the palladia will shrink whatever it is.

Otis - 106 pound lab/Dane mix, lost his right front leg to osteosarcoma on Febuary 9, 2016.  Four rounds of carboplatin completed in April, 2016.  Lung mets August 25, 2016.  Said goodbye too soon on September 4, 2016.   Lost his adopted sister, Tess, suddenly on October 9, 2016. likely due to hemangiosarcoma.  

Wherever they are, they are together.

Michigan
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21 July 2017 - 4:45 pm
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First off we are thrilled to hear Manni is not having side effects YAAAAAAY !!!

If the tumor is not metastasis then you already know what you want to do.
You want the endoscopy done to get the tumor out in the least aggressive manner.

Do you have options if this is the metastasis ? Continue the plan of Palladia and Melatonin?
What happened with the radiation idea? Sorry too many questions and I am not providing you one answer.

Manni’s picture is stunning with the sun rays!!
Ice cream for Manni no matter which route you go!! 

HUGSheart

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21 July 2017 - 10:20 pm
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MANNI, MAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNIIIIIIIII!!!! You are a SUPERSTAR in the sunshine!!! Da Bears are so happy to see you:) And you look devilishly HANDSOME!!! MANNIIIIIIIII! Seriously, we are soooooooo happy to see your mug:)

So, here is a story about Heffalump my Angel OSA dog: He, too, did things his own way. When there was a met it was NOT a lung met but occurred on/in the spleen. All of the vets thought it was a secondary cancer ( because less than 1% of OSA mets go to the spleen) and we did not know until after the pathology report came back that it was, in fact, an OSA met. He did have surgery as this was the ONLY met. And, it, too, was large, as in 6 pounds and grapefruit sized? Something like that. I was asked if, during the surgery, I just wanted to let Heffalump go because the size of the tumor was unexpected. I said no. This was a dog who on the face of it sounded very complex: he was a TwoPawd and had Multi Drug Sensitivity. And now this weird met that they thought was a different cancer. Which is why they made the recommendation during surgery. Well, Heffalump recovered and was the same incredibly brave and happy dog. So...even though the size may look daunting, the fact that there is ONE met and the fact that surgery is an option and the fact that there are more options like Palladia, etc. now (versus when Heffalump was treated) all is VERY favorable for Manni. And what would you say if you did not try everything for Manni? Because Manni will, ultimately, let you know. Heffalump did. And from the looks of Manni, well, he is one special and tough and lovable and silly but wise guy. So...you know Manni better than anyone. My two cents is even if it seems a bit different or complicated, heck, what is the harm in trying until Manni tells you differently? (Of course this is coming from Da Bear HQ where we only have " special" cases...;) So...we vote GO FOR IT!!! You'd be surprised at how often things work out for the better. And if anyone and any dog will get there, it is you two.

Massive hugs, best wishes always, and PyrPaws all around. We love you Manni!!!!!!!!!!!!

Virginia
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21 July 2017 - 11:07 pm
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I am glad you heard from DaBears because, goodness knows, nothing is "ordinary" over at their HQ! She has a lotmof first hand experience with a lot of different scenarios, that's for sure!!

I just don't have any real "tug" one way or another. If anything, I guess I tend to lean towards whatever might be the least invasive, if that's what it comes down too.

I DO want to CELEBRATE the FACT that Manni is doing so well! Not having ANY side effects and just bouncing along like his happy self makes me sooooo happy!!

And you darn right!! We'd better see some pictures of Manni being Manni!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂 And that is a BEAUTIFUL
picture! ABSOLUTELY STUNNING the way all the different "colors of light" dance all around Manni in that lush field of green! 🙂 Very special photo 🙂

Lots of love dear friend

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

Germany
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22 July 2017 - 4:15 am
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Thanks, friends. 

It feels like uncharted territory again. One thing I never wanted to be as a child is an explorer...

Holly, if it turns out to be 'a' met, AND if it shows to have been responsive to the Palladia, we will continue on that path I suppose. The vet said that the normal Palladia protocol does not go for longer than 5 months, I forgot to ask why but I assume it's because of the rest of the internal organs. 

Amy, if you read this: hasn't Izzy been on it far longer? 😳 

But at the same time: 5 months is a century for us right now so we'll not think about that yet. 

As for the radiation: with a tumor this size it apparently doesn't make sense. Which is fine. I just needed to be sure to be able to rule it out. Also apparently the lung isn't very forgiving when it comes to radiation. 

Again, I might yet end up again in a situation where I will have to decide on whether or not to put Manni through surgery again. At least I still have a while to ponder this because we have to wait for the Palladia to -hopefully-work its magic. 

Even if they don't open Manni's thorax (which is a no-go for me) they may have to 'spread his ribs' because of the tumor size. I am not sure about that yet, but then it's not all that likely it'll come to that anyway. 

I still welcome anyone's input here! Thanks,

tina

Guardian of Manni the Wonderdog. -Or was it the other way around?
Osteo and amputation in Dec 2015. Second, inoperable, primary osteosarcoma found in June 2017.
The end of our adventures came Dec 10, 2017. 2 years to the day.

Manni's blog -dogblog-

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22 July 2017 - 1:43 pm
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No experience with Palladia, but I will be keeping my fingers crossed that it works its magic. Arlo sends you and Manni some horse kisses for extra luck.

The Rainbow Bridge

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22 July 2017 - 4:49 pm
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Wow that is really unusual. That Manni, always marching to his own drum. Well, it does sound like you have options and I agree that the endoscopy is a minimally invasive procedure that has its merits in this situation. It wasn't something that was presented to us when Jerry had mets and I might have done it, since he only had two. I just hope the Palladia is effective so that you won't even have to go there.

Manni looks hoppy! What a beautiful summer photo.

It's better to hop on three legs than to limp on four.™
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23 July 2017 - 2:49 pm
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Hi Manni (Tina, too)! What a big, not beautiful tumor you have there!

Izzy took Palladia for 6 - 7 months straight, but her MCT began growing, so we changed tactics. She is back on it now, along with IV Vinblastin. Her onco explained that the expected course is an "at least" number. As in, you commit to giving x number of months as a treatment course. Obviously, folks discontinue sooner if there are unmanageable side effects, total lack of response (aka disease progression) etc but she also said that Izzy could stay on it forever ... there is no reason she couldn't, provided she keeps tolerating it well.  

That said, I believe your vet meant to imply that the treatment course would be 5 months. Perhaps some discontinue meds if there is a total response - we simply spread the doses out as a maintenance dose and it worked perfectly, until it didn't.

As a side note - Izzy's tumor is flaring up at the moment. We'd backed down the prednisone as the muscle wasting is causing mobility issues ... but she also has lost bits of toenail as a side effect of radiation/months of bandages so there is a lot going on there.

Keep us posted on the beautiful Manifred (and don't be afraid to reach out directly to prod me on to respond lol)!

xoxox,

Amy & Izzy, tooheart

Momma to the world's most beautiful American Bulldog, Izzy!! Lost her front leg to OSA 9/18/15. Diagnosed w MCT in June 2016. Celebrated her 1 year ampuversary with knee surgery on 9/18/16! MCT recurrence in Dec 2016. Happy & hungry til nearly 14, earning her wings on 7/31/17.

Germany
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26 July 2017 - 3:26 am
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A big thank you to the ones that responded, it means a lot! heart

We have sort of settled into a routine. My phone reminds me that it's Palladia-Day and apart from that I try to enjoy Manni as best as I can. The hits seem to be getting closer to home and the last few days were difficult for different reasons but Manni and I are in our little bubble of being together, so that's good.

I am holding out for the appointment in August but realistically we're only going to be checking if it's worth giving the Palladia any more. I don't really think Manni'll be a candidate for the endoscopy. Actually, I am not even sure at this point if we make it to the appointment unscathed. 

Don't get me wrong: this has nothing to do with giving up (really, Holly!), I just like to be realistic and not be anymore surprised by bad things than I have to be. And also, you may have noticed that 🙂 , I like to be informed of all possible choices and outcomes. so give it to me straight up please 🙂 No sugar-coating anything, I will not ever hold anyone accountable for their opinion, I just like to make up my mind with all data available.

Teri: yes, there is something very very wrong with hoping for a primary lung tumor. I couldn't agree more. and yet...

Sally, the video further down is, obviously, for you 🙂

Charliebear, well you know. Two peas...

Christine: I know!! So that IS weird, isn't it? Could have done without, I guess.

Beautiful Arlo: maybe Ortega and Mosby are looking down on us right now and then take off into the sunset together. I kinda like that thought. 

Here's Ortega for you: 

Datei-26.07.17-11-18-13-e1501061118473.jpeg

Rene: we would still have to get a Tennisball through Manni's ribs, so that's a challenge. But we'll see. The vets would only be willing to do it if it's primary though. they don't see long-term effects if it's mets. which is fine with me.

Amy: thank you! your input is really important for me!! Sorry you're having issues again!!! please give a lot of big hugs and even bigger kisses to Izzy!! heart oh, and I LOVE your signature. of COURSE it had to be pink 🙂

so, my friends, so far, so good, this is apparently the face of a big ole lung tumor:

Guardian of Manni the Wonderdog. -Or was it the other way around?
Osteo and amputation in Dec 2015. Second, inoperable, primary osteosarcoma found in June 2017.
The end of our adventures came Dec 10, 2017. 2 years to the day.

Manni's blog -dogblog-

London, UK
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26 July 2017 - 4:03 am
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Gosh, he looks fantastic! Playful, happy, moving really well. Is that a little pond in the centre of the lawn? A little Manni watering hole?

As you know, I have no relevant experience to contribute re the lung tumour but you do, of course, have my support and my love.

I'm sorry the last few days have been difficult. Enjoy your bubble, Manni certainly is!

Meg, Clare and Elsie Pie heart

Meg, Mutt, aged around 9, adopted 31/12/2009. Sudden explosive right elbow fracture 06/12 (caused by IOHC), diagnosed with End Stage Arthritis 03/15, Total Elbow Replacement 08/15, problems with healing leading to skin graft & skin flap surgery, Chronic Infection leading to implant breakdown. Became a Tripawd 9th March 2016. 
Lives with Mum, Clare, watched over by Angel Pie and Angel Billie
My life as a MEG-A-STAR 


Michigan
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26 July 2017 - 6:24 am
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Manni and I are in our little bubble of being together, so that's good.

Yes that is a great thing right now!! Tina yes I get everything you are saying!!

I just like to be realistic and not be anymore surprised by bad things than I have to be. And also, you may have noticed that , I like to be informed of all possible choices and outcomes. so give it to me straight up please No sugar-coating anything, I will not ever hold anyone accountable for their opinion, I just like to make up my mind with all data available.

You think I noticedwinker Yep 

Ortega well I just learned of Ortega obviously and the loss and so Sorry what a beauty!! 

I love the video Tina and your humor keep that up and Yep that is what Manni is saying !! I'll show you that tennis ball tumor? What tennis ball tumor!?!? Just get the ball your are discussing and throw it would you!!

Hang in that bubble you know we are all here rooting for Manni & you and we are realistic and still hopeful & saying prayers etc for quality time !! 

So as long as Manni is as he is in that video its just another pill Manni takes. We will hop on and hope for some good news on ct day!

We are all here whenever Tina you know that !!

Get in the Manni Mobile and get some ice-cream!!

LOVE & HUGS

heart

Holly & Purrkins

Virginia
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26 July 2017 - 9:29 am
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Well Mr Manni, you certainly aren't letting any tennie ball interrupt your fun!!   Nope, not robbing you of some playtime!  Looks like you wore your human out though!

Manni, that bubvle you're in is working just fine!  Stay in it! It's working!   Er....you did need a bigger "pool" though!

And Tina, lovely photo of you and Ortego.  You can "feel" the connection.

Lots of love to you and Manni

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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