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Input wanted: Pathology shows mets in lymph nodes + lungs; Doxy vs. Palladia, arthritis, more...
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Virginia
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23 April 2014 - 8:11 pm
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Well, our Lexie has always marched to a different drummer; no straightforward diagnosis for us. We're at her two-week ampuversary and had our onco visit today. 

According to the pathology report she did have an aggressive soft tissue sarcoma (STS) which affected the nerves, bone, and went all the way down to her feet -- and unfortunately it has spread to the lymph nodes as well. The mitotic index, for whatever that's worth, is 6.

The English portion* of the report cited extensive metastasis to the axillary and scapular lymph nodes, which isn't the best news -- especially combined with the presence of lung mets. Where it gets more frustrating is that her aggressive yet 'poorly differentiated spindle cell sarcoma' also has some characteristics of osteosarcoma, and could also be compatible with synovial cell sarcoma -- or even a grade 3 soft tissue sarcoma.

Bottom line is that our oncologist thinks that Cytoxan/metronomic therapy isn't strong enough and he recommends:

5 Doxyrubicin traditional chemo treatments as Option 1, every 2 weeks for 5 weeks. A few issues with that:

- Lexie hates needles (had allergy shots for years) and hates being inside the onco vet's office; she just shakes when she's there in the exam room and is highly anxious.

- Lexie also has Cushing's disease (an adrenal issue) and chronic but well-managed pancreatitis, so she already has to have regular bloodwork and other tests and her internal med vet discourages anti-anxiety meds since many will react to her Cushing's.

- I wonder about stress to her heart given age and the other medical issues she's had to deal with, and just the anxiety factor for her. 

I asked about Palladia as Option 2. That would involve 7 vet visits over 6 months, but Palladia is oral so no needles (except for usual blood draws and labs, etc.) He doesn't think that the Palladia results will be as good as with the Doxy, but he understands my concerns given her needle and anxiety issues. 

Another issue I'm concerned about: Arthritis. The surgeon said she did show some signs of arthritis pre-op, and at certain times of day it definitely seems more painful for her to get around than others. We're going to switch her from Rimadyl to Dermexx (I think...sp?). Anyone have arthritis supplements or med combos you'd recommend? One note: she can't have anything fatty like Omega 3s due to her pancreatitis; has to be low fat all the way. 

Wild card: Maybe I'm paranoid, but because she does seem more tender on her feet...think it's worth asking about Fosomax or Boniva just in case it turns out that she does have some unusual strain of osteo going on as well? Btw, she's on Gabapentin, Tramadol and Yunnan Baiyo post op (pre op too), and will continue those for a while longer.

Second opinion? I like our onco vet a lot, but now that we have pathology I wonder if it's worth getting another opinion from the other onco at her main practice where her I-med vet is for her Cushing's (the only reason I didn't go there before is because their onco vet was booked solid and the tumor was growing daily, so I took the first available I could find).   

On the good news front...

The lung mets aren't huge (yet); she seems happy much of the time; she loves the spring and and her naps in the sun. When she does feel energetic and her various meds have kicked in she has a fabulous hop/walk...and always wants to keep going. In spite of only being 2 weeks out from surgery she's wanted to climb stairs, jump on the couch, etc., which we're trying to discourage...but to me, all of that indicates that she has spunk and wants to hang out here with us longer.

Sorry for the long post, but I'm sure I'll get some great advice and insights from my Tripawds friends. I'll do some advanced forum searches on Palladia for lung mets and lymph node issues, of course, but any thoughts are welcome. 

Thanks to all!

P.S. Did anyone else skip Doxy or other traditional chemo because of needles and their dog's anxiety factor?

*The detailed science portion of the pathology report re. the lymph nodes: Two of the axillary nodes contain focal to diffuse infiltration by neoplasia (plus a lot of other detail...if anyone else had lymph node issues and is curious, I can share). 

Deb and Angel Lexie* Diagnosed at age 13. Tried radiation first; wish we had amputated upon diagnosis (even with lung mets). Joined Club Tripawd April 2014 & Lexie loved life on 3 legs! Advice: Start physical therapy as soon as your vet clears it, especially hydrotherapy if available :-) See Lexie pics here.  

Orrtanna Pa.
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23 April 2014 - 9:38 pm
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I had my guy on almost all of the NSAIDS at one point or another. Took months to get him a diagnosis. Just, please make sure that your vet does a wash out period between the Rimadyl and Deramaxx. Mine put Ty right from Pednisone on to Deramaxx and I thought I was going to lose him 2 days later. No one told me about a wash out. Now I know. At a later date, my new vet told me to wash him out from Rimadyl ( he was back on it) so he could take Pred. I am not much help on the chemo questions, as we did only one before we got our MRSA diagnosis. Lori and Angle-dog TY

TY GUY, Best Black Lab ever! Diagnosed  and had amp in January, 2014. Kicked MRSA's butt. Earned his angel wings on April 16, 2014. Run Free my boy and don't forget a shoe. Ty is a proud member of the " April Angels". Ty sent us Daryl, a Tripawd rescue in Sept. of 2016. Daryl is 5 +or -. We are also Pawrents to Chandler, a Border Collie mix who is 15 and 1/2, Lucy, a Corgi who is 7, 2 minis, 2 horses, and a feisty cat named Zoe. Zoe had a non skeletal Osteosarcoma removed in July 2015. No Chemo, she was at least 16. She is going strong although she is now completely blind. She is now close to 20 and her hobbies are eating and sleeping in front of her personal heater. 

Livermore, CA




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23 April 2014 - 10:36 pm
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I think you are being very wise to consider all factors when choosing your path.

You should do some research on the side effects of both doxy and palladia. I've heard that doxy is one of the harder chemo drugs to tolerate. And palladia is known to cause GI problems and sometimes weakness in the back and rear legs. Of course every dog is different, some tolerate them just fine, but with Lexie's other challenges it is something to consider.

I've made several decisions for the pugs based on how they do at the vet. I learned to do sub Q fluids and give injections so I didn't have to take them to the vet so often. And when Mag developed her second cancer, how she handled the vet and how she did with meds were major factors in deciding not to aggressively treat it. I always tried to factor in life quality into my choices.

I would ask the onc what the goal of treatment is. When Mag went through chemo the goal was palatative care, the chemo wasn't meant to be too rigorous but to give us some more quality time. While I don't put a lot of faith in stats, I would want to know what kind of success there has been with the protocol they are proposing.

As far as the arthritis, I've had really good results with adequan. My quad pug Tani has terrible arthritis, she has been on adequan for over a year. She is pretty maxed out on supplements, anti-inflammatories and pain meds. I was starting to think about her life quality last year, the adequan has given us more time. It doesn't work for every dog, and it is expensive. It is also an injection, not Lexie 's favorite. After the loading phase most pups are on a 4 or 6 week cycle. We are down to every other week, and I do the shot at home.

I'm sorry you didn't get a more definitive diagnosis, how frustrating.

Karen

Tri-pug Maggie survived a 4.5 year mast cell cancer battle only to be lost to oral melanoma.

1999 to 2010

 

              Maggie's Story                  Amputation and Chemo

Virginia
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24 April 2014 - 4:36 pm
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Thanks so much, Amy and Karen. Amy, my vet did warn me about the washout period between Rimadyl and Deramaxx, so we will proceed accordingly. So sorry that your vet didn't warn you; that must have been very scary for you and Ty. 

Karen, I definitely will research the side effects for Doxy and Palladia, and I'm also asking Lexie's Internal Med vet to weigh in. Bummer about Adequan only being available via injection. I'll keep researching arthritis options as well.

 

Deb and Angel Lexie* Diagnosed at age 13. Tried radiation first; wish we had amputated upon diagnosis (even with lung mets). Joined Club Tripawd April 2014 & Lexie loved life on 3 legs! Advice: Start physical therapy as soon as your vet clears it, especially hydrotherapy if available :-) See Lexie pics here.  

On The Road


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24 April 2014 - 7:01 pm
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Hi Deb,

I just saw your news, I'm sorry it's such a vague diagnosis, I would be going a little nuts! She's such a lucky dawg to have a momma who us taking so much of her personality into consideration in the next steps.

This video can help you with information about doxorubicin:

Cisplatin and Doxorubicin Side Effects in Dogs

As for her arthritis, consider this info:

Yucca Plant Helps Baden Stay Limber

The Tripawds Nutrition Supplements Page

I would lean toward getting a second opinion; what about one from a holistic-minded vet? There are so many holistic options for cancer care, I might seriously consider this route if traditional chemotherapy is going to detract from her quality of life. This info may help:

http://pathwith.....ncer-care/

Holistic Cancer Care for Dogs and Cats

 

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

New Haven, CT
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24 April 2014 - 8:09 pm
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Tough calls. Really tough.  She's got a lot going on and her age... But she's loved and loving life!  If it were me and my pup, I'd preserve quality of life.  To me and what you describe, I'd pass on any more vet visits and needles.  Look heavily into holistic meds!  That's where it could help her a lot.  As for joint supplements, etc, Jackson is on GlycoFlexIII.  The MSM in there is what we're after and that dose is HIGH.  It's also pretty serious for joint issues - which we don't have...yet.  I've heard great things, too, about Adequan!  As for palladia, I know there's science and research to support it, but all I've seen here are the bad side effects.  That said: who comes on here to only praise the totally normal drug response?  It's a little skewed here.  So maybe it's worth a shot, but I wouldn't fool yourself out of potential side effects.

Lots to think about!  If a second opinion would help, it could be priceless.  Info is power.

Keep us posted.

~Katy & Jackson

ACL tear in right hind leg 12/5/12 and scheduled ACL repair surgery 12/21/12. Pre-op xrays revealed osteosarcoma. Amputation 12/28/12.  Chemo (carboplatin) started Jan 10, 2013 and ended on April 5, for a total of 5 doses. He handled carbo like a champ!  No side effects.  We started metronomic therapy at his third chemo and have been also doing some holistic treatments.  He's a lively, playful 10 year old huskie-boarder collie and a very proud member of the Winter Warriors!  Our love. Our funny little guy!

Virginia
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24 April 2014 - 8:19 pm
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Thanks so much, Rene and Katy -- I meant to ask about holistic as a third option, and can't believe that it totally slipped my mind. Thanks for reminding me. 

Rene, those links will be very helpful.

Katy, just curious...what is MSM? Glad the GlycoFlex is working well for Jackson. 

Deb and Angel Lexie* Diagnosed at age 13. Tried radiation first; wish we had amputated upon diagnosis (even with lung mets). Joined Club Tripawd April 2014 & Lexie loved life on 3 legs! Advice: Start physical therapy as soon as your vet clears it, especially hydrotherapy if available :-) See Lexie pics here.  

Virginia
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24 April 2014 - 8:25 pm
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Btw, I guess Lexie's pack brother Milo was worried while we were at our onco appointment getting the biopsy results. Apparently he was nervous, so he decided to eat all of these. 

290e4b7a186702c81aa955bc37665967.jpgImage Enlarger

Ah, Milo... Always good for some comic relief!

Deb and Angel Lexie* Diagnosed at age 13. Tried radiation first; wish we had amputated upon diagnosis (even with lung mets). Joined Club Tripawd April 2014 & Lexie loved life on 3 legs! Advice: Start physical therapy as soon as your vet clears it, especially hydrotherapy if available :-) See Lexie pics here.  

New York, NY
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24 April 2014 - 8:29 pm
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Hi Deb,

 

Definitely a tough call, but I thought I'd offer up Jill's experience.  We have no experience with paladia, but Jill did have IV doxy.  She tolerated it extremely well.  She actually alternated carboplatin and doxy and her white blood cells handled the doxy much much better.

I totally understand though youre not wanting to do it with her fear of needles.  

Let me know if you have any questions at all about the doxy!

xoxo,

Erica & Jill

Jill is a 9-year-old tuxedo kitty. She was diagnosed with Osteosarcoma in June 2012 on her toe in her right hind leg. Her leg was amputated on 12/12/12 and she completed four rounds of chemo (2 of Carbo, 2 of Doxy) in April 2013. "Like" Jill's facebook page: https://www.fac.....tty?ref=hl Proud member of the WINTER WARRIORS!!!! Her blog can be read at http://jillsjou.....ipawds.com. xoxo

Virginia







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24 April 2014 - 8:36 pm
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Hey Milo! Yo are ne smart pup! I think I'll have what your having!!

Deb, jist wwnted to throwout cold laser therapy for arthritis too. Now that I've said that, I'm not sure if tht's what I'm thinking of! Bt it seems to me some have had good results for arthritis after several treatments.

I just read something on Doxy...if thr first dose doesn't cause side effects, then z'generslyz' the follow up ones won't. However, the first one can cause side effects and it's a matter of continuing to lower the dose until it doesn't...ugh. But, as Katy said, most posts here don't incorporste all the good experiences.

It's a crap shoot anyway!

Lexie feels good...Milo's too stoned to feel anything..so all's well in dogland!

Wishing I could be ore supportive...can only send you lots of love and the reminder to let nothing rob you of your time togetherz,

Sally and Happy Hannah

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

New Haven, CT
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24 April 2014 - 8:47 pm
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Milo taking a good nap right about now???  Zzzzzzzz!

MSM = Methylsulfonylmethane.  It's a great anti-inflammatory among other things.  It helps protect bladders, too, which was very important when Jpod was on cytoxan.  Now, we figure we'll throw it all at cancer, so he gets this heaping dose.  One of our holistic approaches is antioxidants and anti-inflammatories.  We do that with things like MSM, but Jackson also gets lots of produce.  Tonight: asparagus, beets, frozen cranberries, and brussels sprouts.  I really, strongly believe the addition of simple produce is helping.  All of those are fat-free!

Yep - that cold laser therapy has helped MANY out there too!

~ Katy & Jackson

ACL tear in right hind leg 12/5/12 and scheduled ACL repair surgery 12/21/12. Pre-op xrays revealed osteosarcoma. Amputation 12/28/12.  Chemo (carboplatin) started Jan 10, 2013 and ended on April 5, for a total of 5 doses. He handled carbo like a champ!  No side effects.  We started metronomic therapy at his third chemo and have been also doing some holistic treatments.  He's a lively, playful 10 year old huskie-boarder collie and a very proud member of the Winter Warriors!  Our love. Our funny little guy!

Virginia
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24 April 2014 - 8:49 pm
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Thanks, Erica -- I'm so glad Jill did well on the Doxy. At this point I'm really leaning against it because of Lexie's needle issues. 

Sally, I was just about to PM you...when I returned to check this thread Happy Hannah's banner greeted me. Your girl is still making me smile. And I thought the same thing when I saw the empty calming bag...I need some!

I'll definitely ask about the cold therapy. Interestingly, Lexie seems to have found her own version of it. Milo (what a guy!) decided to dig a cooling hole in a little bare patch of dirt right next to the house by the foundation/basement; it's always shady, and it's one of Lexie's favorite places to lie in. She alternates between catching sun spots in the yard and going to her cooling place.

Thanks, as always, for the great reminders. Lots of hugs and love back your way.

Deb and Lexie  

Deb and Angel Lexie* Diagnosed at age 13. Tried radiation first; wish we had amputated upon diagnosis (even with lung mets). Joined Club Tripawd April 2014 & Lexie loved life on 3 legs! Advice: Start physical therapy as soon as your vet clears it, especially hydrotherapy if available :-) See Lexie pics here.  

On The Road


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24 April 2014 - 8:57 pm
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debva said
Btw, I guess Lexie's pack brother Milo was worried while we were at our onco appointment getting the biopsy results. Apparently he was nervous, so he decided to eat all of these. 

290e4b7a186702c81aa955bc37665967.jpgImage Enlarger

Ah, Milo... Always good for some comic relief!

OMD! Wyatt Ray did the same thing with the same kind of treats!

http://wyattray.....bellyache/

 

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

Virginia
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24 April 2014 - 9:17 pm
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Katy, thanks -- I will definitely ask about supplements with MSM. That's wonderful that Jackson likes veggies. Lexie has never been into that kind of human food but I should try her with some. I've read that human and dogs tastes can change after chemo. 

Rene/Jerry, that's hilarious about Wyatt Ray having the same thing happen with the same bag. Glad he was okay -- other than sleepy -- after his Immodium/Benadryl combo. I forgot to mention that Milo also ate as a chaser to his Calming treats half a bag of pill pockets (which Lexie was way too smart for anyway).

I figured he saw that Lexie was getting chicken with her kibble and thought he deserved some too. After all the extra treats he gave himself, he did indeed get rice as his next meal with a little bit of chicken. 

I only wish I had taken a pic of our dog walker's note from a couple years ago. It began with something like, "When I came in today Milo was standing on top of the kitchen island..." 

Deb and Angel Lexie* Diagnosed at age 13. Tried radiation first; wish we had amputated upon diagnosis (even with lung mets). Joined Club Tripawd April 2014 & Lexie loved life on 3 legs! Advice: Start physical therapy as soon as your vet clears it, especially hydrotherapy if available :-) See Lexie pics here.  

Virginia
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24 April 2014 - 9:43 pm
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Oops, I meant to say thanks to you earlier, Lori (apologies -- I called you Amy for some reason). We're definitely being mindful of that washout period. Our vet prescribed Amantadine as an additional painkiller between the NSAIDs. 

Deb and Angel Lexie* Diagnosed at age 13. Tried radiation first; wish we had amputated upon diagnosis (even with lung mets). Joined Club Tripawd April 2014 & Lexie loved life on 3 legs! Advice: Start physical therapy as soon as your vet clears it, especially hydrotherapy if available :-) See Lexie pics here.  

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