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Help! Phantom Limb Pain 9 days post-op
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Member Since:
11 January 2016
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16 January 2016 - 11:57 pm
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Susie is having brief episodes of Phantom Limb Pain that are unnerving (pardon the unintentional pun) to both me and her. She will be sleeping or resting quietly, then just start screaming like the music in the shower scene of the movie "Psycho." Then she'll pant for a while afterwards. Once she screamed, then hopped madly (after not moving hardly at all the whole day) into the kitchen and over to the door leading to the garage (the area where she usually hides when she thinks she's going to have a bath), and cowered there, panting.

I sleep with her at night, and when it strikes at night, she whimpers frantically and tries to burrow into me.

I have brought up Gabapentin with both our local vet and the veterinary student at K-State, but neither one of them really took the bait. I haven't been able to talk with the actual surgeon in charge of the case (a veterinary resident performed the surgery under her supervision, but I've never met or talked to him), as the veterinary student can never get hold of her when I call.

Next Thursday we're taking Susie back to K-State for her two-week checkup and, if the incision looks good enough, they'll be taking her stitches out. So I should be seeing either the resident or the surgeon at that time. I plan to bring up Gabapentin again.

If that doesn't work (and I'm not holding my breath), do you suggest I just get out the telephone directory and call every vet in the vicinity, asking the office person who answers the phone if they ever prescribe Gabapentin for Phantom Limb Pain and, if they say yes, make an appointment?

I'm desperate to find relief for Susie. I just watched the Tripawds video in which the vet said this could have all been avoided if Susie had been given Gabapentin a day prior to surgery and for just a week afterwards. It makes me feel sick, that all this suffering could have been prevented. 🙁

I have suffered from neuropathy myself, and it's the worst pain ever (partly because it takes you by surprise), so I know just how Susie feels.

On The Road


Member Since:
24 September 2009
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17 January 2016 - 7:18 am
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So sorry to hear this. Review these guidelines where it talks about gaba then go over it with them:

http://download.....-and-cats/

Maybe there is another drug they are considering or a reason why they arent prescribing it. K State should be current on these giudelines. If the student isnt helping ask to speak to a client ombudsman and find another person to help.

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

Member Since:
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17 January 2016 - 2:55 pm
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Virginia







Member Since:
22 February 2013
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17 January 2016 - 3:49 pm
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Grrr...... Okay, I'm gonna be slightly less than diplomatic here. I'm just astounded that they have basically blown off the suggestion of Gabapentin! Is it even possible that, in this day and age, they are doubting the reality of phantom pain ? Grrrr...!

Anyway, and this is just me, I would simply say that, as Susie's advocate and care giver, you want to give her the Gabapentin. She needs it now!. There really is no need to discuss it further! What time may I pick it up?

To me, because of the urgency, there doesn't seem to be any reason for debate or discussion!

(((((((HUGS))))))))

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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17 January 2016 - 6:28 pm
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Thanks, Jerry and Sally! The local vet was reluctant to extend the codeine past a week post-op, saying that Susie should really just be on a NSAID (Meloxicam) by now. K-State vets wanted her off the Meloxicam three days post-op, and off the codeine (essentially leaving her with nothing) just one week post-op.

I had to fight to get the codeine extended one more week (through this coming Wednesday) to two weeks post-op, although the local vet (unlike the K-State veterinary student and surgeon) is okay with Susie taking the Meloxicam for a while longer.

What about the Farabloc ? For those who have had experience with using it (instead of Gabapentin) for Phantom Limb Pain, is it as effective? Or even more effective than Gabapentin? (Obviously, there would be no side effects.)

I did read a study on a clinical trial that didn't show much effect, but I think it was only conducted on humans: http://www.ncbi.....MC3788569/

And here's the call for participants in the clinical trial study: https://clinica.....CT00797849

Any anecdotal reports from this group? I know they make capes (sort of like Thundershirts) that are supposed to block electrical charges from lightning to help dogs who are afraid of thunderstorms (or who may feel actual pain from the static electricity in the air)--here's one such cape, and I know there are others: http://www.stor....._works.htm

I'm wondering if something like this might work (under the same principles as the Farabloc )? I like it that you can actually put it on the dog, instead of trying to get the dog to lie down on it. It would cover the incision area.

Right now the Thundershirt I originally bought for Susie to help with her fear of storms is helping to keep her from licking and biting her incision area, and I feel that it's easing her anxiety, too, as it gently compresses the wound area.

On The Road


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17 January 2016 - 7:13 pm
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Yes that is the correct download.
Stay tuned for tomorrow's Gear Blog post, I posted about Farabloc .

Sorry for the short reply, have a guest over, gotta run for now. Good luck tomorrow.

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet



Member Since:
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17 January 2016 - 8:04 pm
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I bought aFarabloc blanket for myself, for my arthritis, after I read the Farabloc blog here and Wyatt's testimonial. I figure dogs don't lie.

However, I think Susie needs something more immediate. If you can't get the Gabapentin from your vet or the surgeon could you find a more sympathetic vet? The folks here are very experienced and although they aren't vets they have heard many stories of how it helped phantom limb pain. Perhaps there is a concern about combining it with the other meds. If so they need to say that and come up with other solutions.

Did you know that airplanes are covered by a Faraday skin to protect the passengers and systems from damage from lightning strikes? Farabloc is based on the same Faraday principles. Perhaps phantom pain feels like lightning strikes?

You are doing a great job caring for Susie. I hope you get the help you need tomorrow.

Kerren and Tripawd Kitty Mona

Michigan
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17 January 2016 - 8:41 pm
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Wow, I guess I never realized how lucky I've been when it came to medications!  Honestly, I would be on the phone first thing in the morning with the vet who did her surgery and tell him you want a script for gabapentin.  period.  Don't ask, tell.  Ask him how he would feel with no pain medications if his arm were cut off?  Geez oh pete!  He sure wouldn't do it without medication!  A resident can order it, not the medical student, but the resident can.  The vet student absolutely can always get ahold of the attending in charge of them!  If they told you differently, they are lying or there is a problem with their program.  I'm not sure how far K-State is from you, but they can also work with Dr. Foster & Smith online to get them - they have to fax the script, then they mail the medication to you and you get it fairly quickly.  We did it with Murphy when we first started everything....his scripts were cheaper through them than through our vet.

Donna

Donna, Glenn & Murphy 

Murphy had his right front leg amputated due to histiocytic sarcoma at 7 years old. He survived 4 years, 2 months & 1 week, only to be taken by hemangiosarcoma at 11 1/2 years 6/12/17  
Read about Murphy's Life on Three Legs

Donna.png

On The Road


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18 January 2016 - 9:54 am
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Donna & Kerren I couldn't agree more with your suggestions. This is when you have to be a strong advocate for your dog and tell them what you want. If they don't provide it, go elsewhere but don't go at it randomly. If you end up looking for a new vet, we suggest choosing an AAHA-accredited practice because you can be assured their practitioners will follow current pain management guidelines. See:

http://tripawds.....7/15/aaha/

As Kerren said, in time the Farabloc blanket can work well to alleviate chronic pain bit first get the acute pain managed with the appropriate meds. I too use Farabloc for my personal use, for migraines and back pain and it helps. Here is the blog post I wrote about it:

http://gear.tri.....s-reviews/

Hope she's feeling better today.

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

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18 January 2016 - 12:52 pm
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I took Tess in to grt her stitches out today. I asked for Gaba last week and she called it in. She only gave me enough for 10 days but today she asked if I had enough for her. I must have given her a strange look and she said she would just call in the script for just incase. I agree don't ask TELL them you want it. It has really helped Tess with her pahantom pains

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18 January 2016 - 8:52 pm
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Thanks so much, Jerry, Donna, Kerren, and Tess's mom! Susie actually seems to be feeling better today...only whimpered once, and it wasn't the sharp screaming she does from the Phantom Limb Pain.

I will definitely ask about the Gabapentin on Thursday at her two-week post-op visit, as she'll be off all pain meds by then. I may also buy the smallest size of the Farabloc . If it doesn't work for Susie, maybe it will work for me! It sure can't hurt!

She is still wanting me to feed her by hand, but today I went to PetSmart and bought a raised feeder (8"). The bowls (one for water and one for food) in it are HUGE...especially for a little dog, but I was thinking it might be easier for her if she didn't have to bend down to eat or drink from the floor.

However, she seems suspicious of it, and still wants me to hand-feed her. I guess she's decided she's the Princess in the house! I've definitely been her loyal subject!

Green Bay, WI


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18 May 2014
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19 January 2016 - 2:17 pm
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Man! I can't believe the run-around you're getting trying to get some pain relief for Susie! I agree with the others, TELL the vet what you want. I'm not an outgoing person (I'm really quite shy), but when anyone messes with my dogs or their needs, I'm a whole other kind of crazy! I'm lucky my vets have always listened to me and what I feel is best for my dogs. My dobe, Nitro, was on Gaba for a couple weeks before his amp surgery, and for a couple weeks afterwards too. I also ordered a Farabloc blanket yesterday to help with my Westie's hip pain.

Keep on pursuing your quest for Susie's pain meds...here's hoping someone, somewhere listens to you!

Paula and Nitro (and Westie Kodi)

P.S. We see nothing wrong with TOTALLY pampering your pooch by hand feeding!  😀

Nitro 11 1/2  yr old Doberman; right front amp June 2014. Had 6 doses carboplatin, followed by metronomic therapy. Rocked it on 3 legs for over 3 years! My Warrior beat cancer, but couldn't beat old age. He crossed the Bridge peacefully on July 25, 2017, with dignity and on his terms.  Follow his blog entitled "Doberman's journey"

http://nitro.tripawds.com

"Be good, mama loves you".....run free my beautiful Warrior

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20 January 2016 - 2:39 pm
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Thanks so much, Paula! We go back to K-State tomorrow for the removal of Susie's stitches (two weeks post-op). I'm going to ask the surgeon who examines her if she can have Gabapentin, since she'll be off all meds as of tonight and is still having phantom limb pain.

Hugs to you and Nitro and Susie's fellow Westie, Kodi!





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20 January 2016 - 8:27 pm
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All I can say is I had a totally different experience with K-State and the students helping Jasmine & Snickers with their spay/gastropexies.  That was the 1st time ever going to the Hospital and with the experience I had I would go back if I had to.  I am not saying that they couldn't have handled this situation better.  I agree a student can always get a hold of someone and if they are telling you that they can't then they just don't want to do their job and I sure would be talking to the supervising vet when I got there and reporting every time I called concerned about my dog.  If they don't want to do something than go above them and request the higher up.  But that is just me.

"I'm desperate to find relief for Susie. I just watched the Tripawds video in which the vet said this could have all been avoided if Susie had been given Gabapentin a day prior to surgery and for just a week afterwards. It makes me feel sick, that all this suffering could have been prevented. :-("    There is no guarantee to any medicine and that it will work the same for any one dog vs another.  To say this is an exaggeration because no on could have guaranteed that it still wouldn't have happened. Just like I took a diabetes medication it doesn't cause reactions in but 1% of the people guess what after 5 weeks of taking it guess who had a reaction to it.  Susie could have been the % that it didn't work for.  But I still would ask for Gabapetin and be an advocate and insist on talking to the head of the department if need be.

I am sorry you are having such a hard time

Michelle & Angel Sassy

sassymichelle-sm.jpg

Sassy is a proud member of the Winter Warriors. Live long, & strong Winter Warriors.
sassysugarbear.tripawds.com
07/26/2006 - Sassy earned her wings 08/20/2013

05/04/2006 -  Bosch, Sassy's pal, earned his wings 03/29/19  fought cancer for 4 months.

"You aren't doing it TO her, you are doing it FOR her. Give her a chance at life."

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20 January 2016 - 10:25 pm
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Hi Michelle!

I'm actually back in Manhattan tonight with Susie, as there's been a heavy snowstorm here and the roads are icy and hazardous. It took us forever to get here, as driving conditions are treacherous, but they're supposed to be even worse tomorrow! We didn't want to try getting to her morning appointment on time in even worse weather. (Right now we're wondering if we'll be stuck here an extra night, as the front desk clerk at the Holiday Inn Express said 7 more inches of snow are expected overnight!)

Overall, I've been very impressed with K-State and our veterinary student was wonderful. I really think she did try to get hold of the surgeon, but the vets are just super-busy here. She said she tried all day long. And the veterinary student is at the hospital from 6 a.m. until around 10 p.m. just about every day!

Plus, K-State just has a different pain management protocol than some of the other veterinary hospitals. The codeine and Meloxidyl had hardly any side effects (from what I can tell) with Susie, so maybe that is one of their reasons for prescribing them. For the most part, they did a good job with her pain. (It was just that they only wanted her to be on pain meds for a week, not two weeks.) The surgeon who oversaw Susie's surgery did tell me that she thinks Tramadol is not that effective, plus it has some bad side effects in a lot of dogs.

I'm hoping to talk with someone in Oncology tomorrow, while we're there to get Susie's stitches removed by someone from the Surgery staff.

I'm thinking I can probably get someone to prescribe Gabapentin. Susie is no longer on any other pain meds, as her codeine has run out. (She's two weeks post-op.) So I don't see what it would hurt to try a brief trial.

((((hugs)))) to you and the girls!

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