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K9 Immunity Plus and Apocaps
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25 January 2012 - 5:53 am
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Hey Everyone,

I was wondering if any of you has had any experience with either the K9 Immunity Plus or the Apocaps (from Dog Cancer Vet).  I will be discussing Chemo and the two above options this Friday with our vet and just wanted to get some backround information from people who have used them before and what they think of them.  ie: Have they made improvements to your dogs health, side effects, etc.

Thanks in Advance

Linda

knoxville, tn
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25 January 2012 - 7:53 am
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gayle was on k9 immunity plus for probabably 19 or 20 months (we started after the chemos were done, or almost done..can't remember).  we really believe it helped her maintain her health.  we also are fans of acupuncture and laser, if that's available to you guys. 

 

charon & spirit gayle

Life is good, so very, very good!!! Gayle enjoyed each and every moment of each and every wonderful day (naps included).  She left this world December 12, 2011 – off on a new adventure.

Love Never Ends

http://etgayle

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25 January 2012 - 8:01 am
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Hi Linda and Pack! We use K9 Immunity Plus for Cadence. We waited though until she was done with chemo per the advice from our integrative vet and oncologist. She started out at 4 a day (She weighs 40 pounds) and now takes 2 a day for maintenance plus other supplements recommended by our integrative vet. We have Apocaps but we have not started them yet although we have been given the go ahead from her oncologist. She did not want Cadence taking those until after chemo because there are some schools of thought that believe that mixing those with chemo would make the chemo not as effective due to the antioxidants. I asked this same question like you did and here is the topic containing the answers I got from Admin and others:

http://tripawds.....-issues/ 

 

To answer your question about K9 immunity and how she responded, well she definitely got more energy I think, but she is back to laying around again. Could be the result of having a screaming/barking, up all night little monkeybutt brother in the picture now. laugh

She is due for her follow up X-rays this weekend and everyone cross your paws that all the efforts we have been putting into keeping the cancer at bay, including the K9-Immunity, means she will have no mets show up.

 

Cadence's Mom

Cadence Faye: Born 10/30/04, stepped into our hearts 12/23/2004. Rear leg tumor found 7/24/11 by mom and dad, Xray on 7/25/11, Osteosarcoma suspected 7/26/11, amputation 7/29/11, Carboplatin started 8/23. Met free so far! 

krun15
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25 January 2012 - 9:01 am
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Hi Linda,

I never got to try K9 Immunity Plus with Tri-pug Maggie.  But Maggie's little sis Tani has been taking it since last summer sometime.  Tani has recurring cutaneous mast cell tumors.  I have chosen not to treat the cancer with surgery or chemo at this point.  Can't say for sure if the K9 Immunity is helping with the cancer, but at least so far we haven't had any internal spread.  What I really noticed when she started on it was how much energy she seemed to have.  She is 11.5 and dealing with several health issues, but most who meet her are surprised she is so old since she acts younger.  I think the K9 really contributes to that.

 

Karen and the pugapalooza

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26 January 2012 - 5:29 am
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Thank you all for the information!  I appreciate it!

 

Linda

Rock Hill, SC
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26 January 2012 - 6:56 am
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Linda,

I would love to know what your vet tells you about this.  Zeus' third chemo is tomorrow and I plan to also ask his vet about these same products.  Problem is that he usually just says "I don't see what it could hurt" and that's not a great answer for me.  Dr. Dressler's book says it is fine to administer these during chemo (and may even help the chemo do its job), but I have seen posts on this website where people say their oncologists discouraged it during chemo.  So much information to navigate!

Lisa

Zeus was a Husky mix diagnosed with Osteosarcoma at age 11.  A visible lung met and suspicious spot on his liver meant a poor prognosis-six weeks was our vet's best guess. We decided to fight for our boy and his right front leg was amputated on 12/1/11. We did six rounds of chemo, changed his diet and spoiled him completely rotten. We were blessed with 10 great months after diagnosis. Against the odds, the lung met remained a single met and grew very little over those months. A wonderful furbaby with the most gentle spirit, he fought with a strength that we never imagined he possessed. We have no regrets...
http://zeuspod......pawds.com/

San Diego, CA
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26 January 2012 - 9:32 am
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I meant to post on this the other day and forgot...

I asked our onc about the whole antioxidants during chemo or not issue and he explained the logic behind each side of the argument. However, he said he falls into the "it's not going to hurt and it might help" camp, so we kept giving them. He said there was a study done where they gave some dogs antiox's while on chemo and others didn't get them and there was no real difference. He said you have to give extremely high levels of the antiox's for it to be a problem. He also said he would never let me do something that he thought was undoing the work he was trying to do w/ Abby, so he was 100% fine with us giving them to her.

As for the specific questions on K9 Immunity and the Apocaps - we did the K9 Immunity Plus with Abby and I was happy w/ the product. Plus, it's like a treat to the dog, so easy to give and not another pill you have to try to get down them. As for Apocaps , I asked our onc about them and he was not a fan. He said for the cost he didn't think the benefit was worth it. I have a friend who did her research and found there was a much cheaper way to get the same basic ingredients, so she gave her dog Berte's Immune Blend and.... unfortunately I forget what the other thing was, but you might want to research the Apocaps and see what's in them. From what I understand, for a big dog they can end up being pretty expensive.

Hope this helps,
Jackie, Angel Abby's mom

Abby: Aug 1, 2009 – Jan 10, 2012. Our beautiful rescue pup lived LARGE with osteosarcoma for 15 months – half her way-too-short life. I think our "halflistic" approach (mixing traditional meds + supplements) helped her thrive. (PM me for details. I'm happy to help.) She had lung mets for over a year. They took her from us in the end, but they cannot take her spirit! She will live forever in our hearts. She loved the beach and giving kisses and going to In-N-Out for a Flying Dutchman. Tripawds blog, and a more detailed blog here. Please also check out my novel, What the Dog Ate. Now also in paperback! Purchase it at Amazon via Tripawds and help support Tripawds!

WillyWild
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27 January 2012 - 11:57 am
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Lurker here. I haven't tried apocaps yet for my boy willy, but we've been using k9 immunity for over a year. I really think he wouldn't be here without them. He's got lots of energy and he waits to get his wafers every morning with breakfast.

He hasn't gotten sick and we haven't had to take him to the vet again since he started taking them. That's proof enough for me.

We get ours at k9medicinals.com. Real nice people.

The Rainbow Bridge

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27 January 2012 - 12:26 pm
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Hi WillyWild, thank you for posting and sharing your experience. We look forward to hearing more about your story!

It's better to hop on three legs than to limp on four.™
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29 January 2012 - 7:18 am
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Hi everyone,

 

Thank you all again for the information.  We saw our vet on Friday, Roxy got her stitches out and the Dr. said her incision is healing great!

 

As far as chemo, the Dr. didn't think we should go with it.  He stated since Roxy's blood work was fine and the chest xray didn't show any traces of cancer, it would be best if we didn't give her chemo since it would make the quality of life not good for her.  I understand the chemo can give the dog Diarrhea and vomiting issues and didn't want to put her thru that if we didn't have to.  We will have her checked every three months for traces (blood work and xray) and take it from there. 

 

He did however state that the K9 Immunity Plus would be good for her, so I have ordered it and look forward to starting her on it.  I ordered the Ruff Wear harness for her thru Tripawds and received it yesterday.  It is great and helps support her when she gets tired and weak while she is outside.  For any of you out there thinking about one, I would highly recommend it and if you buy it thru Tripawds website it will support their site which we all love!!  I also ordered booties thru the site for her so she doesnt slip on our floors, but have not received them yet.

 

Thank you all again for your support!!

Linda

Rock Hill, SC
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29 January 2012 - 12:52 pm
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Hi, Linda.

I'm a little concerned about the information you posted above and I think you are right to talk to an oncologist or at least get a second opinion.  Our dog, Zeus, is 11 years old and had his right front leg amputated on 12/1/11 due to OSA.  Since diagnosis, I have read literally hundreds of articles, research papers, etc, about OSA and they all mirror what our vet told us:  in 90% of the cases, the cancer has spread.  Sometimes the metastasis is visible on x-ray (which means it is more advanced, in which case IV chemo is not as helpful).  Even if x-rays are clear, it is assumed that there are micro-mets which are just too small to show on x-ray.  The recommendation for chemo is usually meant to fight the micro-mets that are not yet visible.  It is my understanding that cancer does not show in bloodwork (unless it has already invaded an organ and the bloodwork shows elevated levels from that organ - in which case it is still not the actual cancer showing in the bloodwork, but rather compromised organ function that may be caused by cancer).  The fact that Roxy's x-rays are clear is a great sign that there is no cancer that has grown large enough to show on x-rays. That improves her prognosis greatly.  But, it doesn't mean that the original nasty tumor didn't release some tiny, invisible rogue cancer cells into the blood stream that may eventually latch on somewhere else in the body and start growing.  That is the purpose of the chemo - to try and kill off any of those loose cancer cells.

Additionally, most all vets agree that chemo does not affect dogs the way that it affects people.  That is because the level of chemo given to dogs is a lower dose meant to slow down or control the cancer as opposed to the really high doses given to humans with the intent of curing the cancer.  Zeus took two rounds of Carboplatin and had almost no adverse reaction - just a little lethargic after the second treatment.  We went Friday for his third round and his white blood cell count was still a little low so the vet recommended waiting an extra week to allow that to normalize.  I was told that it is rare to complete six rounds of chemo without this happening at lease once.  But, even on chemo he is still very happy, eating, playing, etc.  I know every dog is different, but most of the time they do fine with the chemo.

My intent is certainly not to talk you into chemo.  That is a very personal decision for each family that involves everything from personal beliefs, ability to provide supportive care, financial aspects, etc..  Many folks have opted not to do chemo and to treat their dogs with supplements or other options, which is completely acceptable if you feel like that is the right road for you.  Some of them have had great success with that route.  I just encourage you to make an informed decision.  I really don't want you to think based on your post above that x-rays and good blood work necessarily mean the cancer is not there and then you get blindsided if it metastasizes.  Gook luck!

Zeus was a Husky mix diagnosed with Osteosarcoma at age 11.  A visible lung met and suspicious spot on his liver meant a poor prognosis-six weeks was our vet's best guess. We decided to fight for our boy and his right front leg was amputated on 12/1/11. We did six rounds of chemo, changed his diet and spoiled him completely rotten. We were blessed with 10 great months after diagnosis. Against the odds, the lung met remained a single met and grew very little over those months. A wonderful furbaby with the most gentle spirit, he fought with a strength that we never imagined he possessed. We have no regrets...
http://zeuspod......pawds.com/

The Rainbow Bridge

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29 January 2012 - 1:54 pm
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gtplady said:

As far as chemo, the Dr. didn't think we should go with it.  He stated since Roxy's blood work was fine and the chest xray didn't show any traces of cancer, it would be best if we didn't give her chemo since it would make the quality of life not good for her.  I understand the chemo can give the dog Diarrhea and vomiting issues and didn't want to put her thru that if we didn't have to.  We will have her checked every three months for traces (blood work and xray) and take it from there. 
 

He did however state that the K9 Immunity Plus would be good for her, so I have ordered it and look forward to starting her on it.  I ordered the Ruff Wear harness for her thru Tripawds and received it yesterday.  It is great and helps support her when she gets tired and weak while she is outside.  For any of you out there thinking about one, I would highly recommend it and if you buy it thru Tripawds website it will support their site which we all love!!  I also ordered booties thru the site for her so she doesnt slip on our floors, but have not received them yet.

Aww Linda, thank you so much for your endorsement, your support and encouraging others to shop through Tripawds! That is super, super nice of you, we really appreciate it.

I do agree with Zeuspod…it is so much easier to cope with whatever cancer throws our way, if we know that we have made the best decision based on all of the information we have learned directly from medical professionals. Getting a second opinion from a certified oncologist is not insulting your current vet or demonstrating that you aren't confident with their advice. If it is financially feasible for a pawrent, a second opinion can bring you peace of mind even if you decide not to do chemo.

We chose not to pursue chemo because it wasn't right for us. However, we made that decision without the consult of an oncologist. It was based on what we learned from our team at UC Davis, a vet teaching hospital, so we felt confident with our choice. Now, I don't want to say we have regrets about not talking to an onco doc, because we do not. But after everything we've learned here through the years, if we had to deal with cancer again (geez I hope we never do!), we would definitely meet with an oncologist before making any decisions. So many great advancements are made in veterinary oncology every single year, it's amazing. Being able to meet with someone who does this every day and stays on top of research is priceless. Just my opinion though, please take it for what its worth. We will support you no matter what you do or don't do, just know that OK?

It's better to hop on three legs than to limp on four.™
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5 February 2012 - 3:50 pm
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Hi Zeuspod and Team Tripawds,

 

I really, really appreciate your advice on this. As you said Team Tripawds (Jim is it?).  You said it "Getting a second opinion from a certified oncologist is not insulting your current vet or demonstrating that you aren't confident with their advice. If it is financially feasible for a pawrent, a second opinion can bring you peace of mind even if you decide not to do chemo"  - I was a little nervous about my vet thinking I didnt have trust in him.  

We have a call into him (he was away for a few days last week) and I have contacted the Oncologist's office - once I get the blessing from my vet tomorrow, I will go forward with a second opinion.  As Zeuspod said "The recommendation for chemo is usually meant to fight the micro-mets that are not yet visible.  It is my understanding that cancer does not show in bloodwork (unless it has already invaded an organ and the bloodwork shows elevated levels from that organ – in which case it is still not the actual cancer showing in the bloodwork, but rather compromised organ function that may be caused by cancer)" - I cant tell you how much that has been on my mind.  So I just need a piece of mind at this point.  I know it can be expensive, but I will do what I have to do to give her more time since she is not suffering or miserable right now.  She is my furbaby and I will take care of her!!

 

Team Tripawds - I am very happy to do all I can to promote and support your sight, without all of you - I would be completely lost!  I even liked you on my facebook page!

 

Thanks again guys!!

Linda

krun15
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5 February 2012 - 5:32 pm
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Hi Linda,
I'm glad you are getting an oncology opinion. One of the things I love about my vet is that she refers me to specialist vets when she thinks we need another opinion, and she doesn't take offense when I chose to get another opinion.
I have dealt with three cancers in two pugs. Once I did chemo, twice I have not. I have made all the decisions with lots of information, knowing my options, and with an oncology consult.
Chemo is not right for every situation, for lots of reasons. But I think you will have more confidence and peace of mind knowing all the options, whatever you choose.
Good luck with the consult, let us know what happens.

Karen and the pugalooza

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