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Concern about our new Tripawd
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26 November 2017 - 2:27 pm
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Hi guys and I'm super glad I found this forum/community.  I hope I can be a productive part of it as the story of our baby unfolds over the coming weeks/months/years.  I'm just turning to you guys in hopes of shared experience and maybe something to soothe my mind over the next few hours.

We've had a hectic Thanksgiving in my household.  On the visit to see family, our 12.5 year old Pitbull mix, Dozer slipped in the car (he was standing up momentarily to shift around) and suffered what we thought was a minor sprain due to his response to it as well as what appeared to be his pain level.

So, we go to the vet first thing Friday, find out he has a bone tumor, back left leg that led to a break.  Get him to the vet hospital and get reasonably good news (isolated to the leg, hasn't spread, etc) and have the amputation done Saturday morning after all the requisite testing and whatnot.  Go to pick him up this morning, was told by the vet that he wasn't really willing to move around too much.  They chalked it up to behavioral/psychological (he's a stubborn mama's boy).  He was in a strange place without us and had just had what would obviously be his most traumatic 48 hours of life.  So we've had him back at home for 5 hours now and we're ~30 hours post surgery as I type this.

So, concerns incoming:

He seems to be totally unwilling or unable to put weight on his good leg.  If we help him stand up with his front legs and then help him with the back, he just can't seem to walk with the rear leg and just sorta collapses.  He's very stoic and doesn't show pain so I was messing with his ankle area and he seems to have full functional ROM but I did a bit of gentle squeezing and it wasn't enough to wake him up.  I also did the same with his front legs and that also didn't wake him up so it's not quite enough to make any kind of inference with my non vet mind.

I know the common story is of dogs being functional somewhere between 12 and 24 hr post amputation. I've already called the vet hospital twice and have been near or in tears each time.  The last time they told me to ride it out over night and see if he seems to progress any.  And if he doesn't to bring him back tomorrow morning for an evaluation.  

So, how much should I be worrying right now?  Or is it possible that he's just gonna be one of those guys that takes a few days to get the hang of it?  I know that obviously none of you know, just sorta typing it out I suppose.

On a positive note, it does seem like he's getting better control of his front legs and was more able to stand up on them than he was earlier at the hospital.  I'm not sure if this is just me seeing what I need to see to feel better or if that even really matters.  It just seems like he doesn't want to use his back leg.  But he was the same way the day before the surgery which resulted in me carrying him everywhere.  He wouldn't bother with standing up and even when we'd help him, he'd basically just collapse the same way he does now so I'm hoping that something didn't go wrong during the surgery.  In my ideal world, he just needs to have his personal moment where he decides he's gonna do it and off he goes.  I hope I'm not being delusional.

Anyway, thanks for letting me share and if any of you guys have had similar experiences, I'd love to hear stories or insights.

Thanks,

-Jeremy

Livermore, CA
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26 November 2017 - 8:23 pm
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Welcome Jeremy and Dozer, your future posts will not have to wait for approval.

I'm sorry cancer has brought you here- but this is the best place to be as you start this journey with Dozer.

A couple of questions..

How are Dozers other joints- his one back leg and back?  I know you didn't have much time to make a decision, is Dozer otherwise pretty healthy?  What do you mean that you had to carry him everywhere before surgery- was that after he broke his leg?

What meds is he on?  Pain meds can really slow a dog down. 

Are you using a sling to help him get up and move? If the hospital didn't send one home you can make one out of a reusable shopping bag, here is how you make one.

It is not unusual here for the more 'mature' pups to take a bit longer to get the hang of things.  Be sure he has good traction - really important for tripawds to feel confident.

You can look through the Reading List for more info from this site on amputation and recovery.

Karen and the Spirit Pug Girls

Tri-pug Maggie survived a 4.5 year mast cell cancer battle only to be lost to oral melanoma.

1999 to 2010

 

              Maggie's Story                  Amputation and Chemo

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27 November 2017 - 1:01 pm
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krun15 said
Welcome Jeremy and Dozer, your future posts will not have to wait for approval.

I'm sorry cancer has brought you here- but this is the best place to be as you start this journey with Dozer.

A couple of questions..

How are Dozers other joints- his one back leg and back?  I know you didn't have much time to make a decision, is Dozer otherwise pretty healthy?  What do you mean that you had to carry him everywhere before surgery- was that after he broke his leg?

What meds is he on?  Pain meds can really slow a dog down. 

Are you using a sling to help him get up and move? If the hospital didn't send one home you can make one out of a reusable shopping bag, here is how you make one.

It is not unusual here for the more 'mature' pups to take a bit longer to get the hang of things.  Be sure he has good traction - really important for tripawds to feel confident.

You can look through the Reading List for more info from this site on amputation and recovery.

Karen and the Spirit Pug Girls  

Thanks for the feedback.

We've gotten some more answers since yesterday.  He seemed to be in discomfort a couple of hours after he woke up from his first set of pain meds (gabapentin and Tramadol) and after his leg still didn't seem to be working, we took him back to the vet hospital.  He's currently still there and we'll get an update if we can get him tomorrow or if they're gonna keep him for another day either later tonight or tomorrow morning.  The doctor who we spoke to (initial admitting vet but not surgeon) told us bringing him back was the right call and that surgery dropped the ball and shouldn't have released him to us when they did and instead should have kept him for another 24 hr.

Current feedback is the following:

  • Had a minor fever which has since returned to normal after IV fluids
  • Has normal function in his leg based on nerve testing and is now able to move it a bit.  He's at the point where he can stand up and take 3-5 steps with sling assistance.  It's a hell of a lot better than a dead leg.  We were terrified that he had somehow become paralyzed. 
  • They're guessing it took him a bit longer to come out of sedation.  I have my concerns that they overdosed him on sedatives/anesthesia due to what was an obvious initial weighing error (had him @48.5 kg when he weighs ~34-36 kg based on 3 weeks ago at vet checkup).  Not to mention overdosing him on the pain meds based on that same erroneous body weight.
  • No concerns about infection, etc (normal looking incision site via ultrasound)

As far as his history goes, he is in near as good of shape as he can be for a dog of his age.  The only issue he has as far as xrays can tell is minor arthritis in the hips which I suppose is normal @12.5 years.  Heck, I'll be happy if I can say I only have minor hip arthritis when I'm 75 years old.  And the doc tells us there's no reason to believe from the xrays that he has any back injuries that could be affecting leg function so it's my hope that he's just gonna take some time to get used to the coordination and to shake the fog off.  It seems like he's already starting on the latter and hopefully the former comes quickly.

So at this point, they're sorta keeping him pain managed but are trying to dial back the medication to a level that manages his pain but doesn't make him dopey (he slept for almost 5 hours straight yesterday but when he woke up he was in obvious psychological distress from the meds.  He was shaking, twitching, making noises indicating distress from our read on it).

And my carrying him after the injury comment was in the sense that he was able to use his good leg but didn't seem to be comfortable with the coordination required so it was easier to carry him.  He could hobble around but just didn't seem interested in giving it any effort.  Plus he's a brat so probably took it as an opportunity to get me to carry him.  He's a big fan of that.

So yeah, we're resting a bit easier but still waiting for him to hit the point where it all clicks and he is bouncing around like normal.  Or the new normal I suppose.

Livermore, CA
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27 November 2017 - 2:01 pm
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Good call to take him back to the vet!  It's a little scary thinking they might have overdosed him based on a weight error but it does explain his not wanting to get up.

Being able to take a few steps now is encouraging- I bet when they get the meds dialed in correctly you will see improvement. 

Plus he's a brat so probably took it as an opportunity to get me to carry him. He's a big fan of that.

I totally get that! My pug Maggie lost her back leg to mast cell cancer.  She convinced my parents that she needed to be carried in and out of their house when she visited them.  When she came back to my house we had a stand off, well actually a sit off! She sat in the back yard and waited for me to come get her- it took her about 20 minutes to figure out I wasn't coming and after that she came and went on her own. This was after she was healed up of course, and it is much easier to carry a 17 pound pug (about 8 kg).

Karen and the Spirit Pug Girls

Tri-pug Maggie survived a 4.5 year mast cell cancer battle only to be lost to oral melanoma.

1999 to 2010

 

              Maggie's Story                  Amputation and Chemo

Virginia
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27 November 2017 - 3:40 pm
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Just catching up!  

You've already gotten great input from Karen.  So "ditto".

Ano way is every dog up and mo ile within 12 - 24 hours!  Sure many are, but theyr the ones who havel already been a "semi-tripawd" here for a month or two, or more, ahike getting the proper diagnosis for this nasty pice of crap disease!  Usuaw they'll  go to the Vet for a limp...then they'll get reat snd Rimzdyl...it'll get better....for awhile...process will repeat for a fime or two sometimes before xrays afe taken. 

In Dozer's case, he went from using all four legs to instanw becor a trioawd.   As a "seasoned fella" thatsw pretty hard on his muscles, stamina, etc without any "practice" limping at first!

And yes, as your refulw Vet mentioned, many dogs stay two or three nights (sometimes more) before getting their mobility back in some form.

Most Vets saynit takes "approximately" twoish weeks to recovw from the MAJOR surgerymitself, and then z out one month to get the gait and mobility worked out.

Managing the pain is important, even if it does make him ain bit groggy.  The Gabapentin can have a bit of a sedation effect on some dogs.   It does sound like he still has some pain after the five hour dose wears off.  Tramadol can make some dogs a bit whacky somet too.  It's such a fine line.

He's where he needs ro be right now.  Rest is extremely important for the healing process.  It's all about sloooow and easy....potty breaks and then back for more rest.  This will go on for about the first twoish weeks.  You WILL see Dozer's sparkle come back bit by bit!   And then seemingly almost overniw, hesw back 100% to being Dozer!! 

I know you didn't have anytime to prepare for this in any way!  Read Loving Life On Three Legs for more helpful tips.  If you have hardwoods you'll kne to get non slip scatter rugs for traction .

STAY CONNECTED!!!  We are right by your side the whole way!!!

Hugs

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

PS KAREN...I always love hearing about Stubborn Pug Maggie 🙂 🙂 🙂

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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28 November 2017 - 7:11 am
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Thanks for both of you guys and your input.

I'm feeling about 1,000% better right now than I was a couple of days ago.   The doc called this morning and told us the following:

  • His fever came back shortly but was resolved before they could even give him antibiotics so they're thinking stress.  They are however giving him antibiotics though, just to be safe.
  • Speaking of stress, he's stopped all of his stress induced behaviors.  No more random barking/yelping/crying and no more gator rolling when they are trying to move him around or get him standing.
  • He's no longer sedate and is able to get up pretty freely on his front legs.  Back legs are still hit or miss.  He can take a few steps on his own now but he's still knuckling under after a few steps.  The fact it's not constant rules out neuropathy so we're really happy about that.
  • The pain med schedule has been totally changed and reduced significantly but he seems to be comfortable.  I can't wait until he's pain free.  I hate seeing him hurting.
  • Great news is that he was able to go outside yesterday and this morning.  Something he hadn't shown any desire to do.  Is still struggling to go to the bathroom and has been going in bed.  They think that's a matter of it taking him time to figure out how to walk again plus going to the bathroom is proving to be too much to process at the moment.
  • They've taken him off fluids as well so that may help the bathroom thing.  They walk them on a 4 hour schedule apparently and with fluids his schedule is probably just off from their walking schedule.

So, we're getting him back this afternoon after we both get off work, assuming no more fever issues through the day.  We'll see how it all plays out from here on.  I hope we get to take him home and don't have to wait until Wednesday.

When he gets back with us, I'll upload some pictures of him being happy (I hope, he may still be pouty with us) and an update.

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28 November 2017 - 10:58 am
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Hi Jeremy and YAY Dozer!

I am glad he is coming around. Anesthesia and pain meds can really do tricky things with animals. They can cry out like you would think somebody was beating on them, even if they are not in pain. And some are just so sensitive to those drugs. Years ago I took one of my kitties in to the hospital I worked at because he needed a dental. He did great through the procedure. When we recovered him, he was like a drunken soldier for the next 3 days! He was so bad, he walked over the chair rung in the kitchen and once the front feet were over he couldn't figure out what to do next, poor baby. And he was not overmedicated, I did the procedure myself! Anyhow, my point is that all of this is enough to give you a nervous breakdown. I am glad you took him back in and he is finally turning that corner. Of all the things you said yesterday, the fever was the one thing that concerned me. I am glad they are giving antibiotics, he should be on them after that surgery anyways. If I were you I would make sure you have a good old fashioned thermometer and take his temp a couple of times a day just to make sure he is all set. 

Looking forward to your update when you have the chance, I am sure he will keep you thoroughly busy for a while once you get him home. Oh... and pictures, we MUST have some pictures of the spoiled beautiful little boy 🙂

Jackie

Hugs,

Jackie, David, Mitchell, Andy Oscar, and the coolest feral tripawd kitty Huckleberry

http://paws120......pawds.com/

Virginia
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28 November 2017 - 11:24 am
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So glad ro hear improvements are bei g made!A d remember, during this initial couple of weeks of recovery, every LITTLE improvementis a HUGE IMPROVEMENT! 🙂   So YAY for Dozer!!

HE'll figure things out in his own way and on his own time schedule.

Looking forward to those pictures! 🙂

Hugs

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

Livermore, CA
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28 November 2017 - 1:37 pm
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Glad to read this- sounds like things are going in the right direction!

His poor back leg is probably really sore from the hopping he has done so far- someone here once said try hopping on one leg around your house so you see how it feels!  Tripug Maggie was hopping the day of surgery, but she could not get far once I got her home.  Seems like she would hop a few steps then sit down.

Does Dozer have a potty routine?  I've had two pups who have had potty issues because they couldn't follow their normal routines.  Tripug Maggie had always spun in a circle before pooping- after her rear amp she couldn't keep her balance at first and would fall when she tried.  It took her 6 or 7 days to poop, probably partly from the pain meds but also  it took her that long to figure out her balance!

And quad pug boy Obie will only pee by lifting his right leg.  When he had his right knee surgery there was no problem he could still lift it, but when he had his left knee repaired (meaning he needed to stand on his right leg) he would not pee at the vet when they took him out, he finally peed on himself in is crate there.  I had warned them but I don't think they believed me!  I had to hold him up with his harness when I got him home until he could put weight on the left leg and then lift his right.

I hope you get your boy home soon!

Karen and the Spirit Pug Girls

Tri-pug Maggie survived a 4.5 year mast cell cancer battle only to be lost to oral melanoma.

1999 to 2010

 

              Maggie's Story                  Amputation and Chemo

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28 November 2017 - 1:58 pm
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krun15 said
Glad to read this- sounds like things are going in the right direction!

His poor back leg is probably really sore from the hopping he has done so far- someone here once said try hopping on one leg around your house so you see how it feels!  Tripug Maggie was hopping the day of surgery, but she could not get far once I got her home.  Seems like she would hop a few steps then sit down.

Does Dozer have a potty routine?  I've had two pups who have had potty issues because they couldn't follow their normal routines.  Tripug Maggie had always spun in a circle before pooping- after her rear amp she couldn't keep her balance at first and would fall when she tried.  It took her 6 or 7 days to poop, probably partly from the pain meds but also  it took her that long to figure out her balance!

And quad pug boy Obie will only pee by lifting his right leg.  When he had his right knee surgery there was no problem he could still lift it, but when he had his left knee repaired (meaning he needed to stand on his right leg) he would not pee at the vet when they took him out, he finally peed on himself in is crate there.  I had warned them but I don't think they believed me!  I had to hold him up with his harness when I got him home until he could put weight on the left leg and then lift his right.

I hope you get your boy home soon!

Karen and the Spirit Pug Girls  

He has a very regular schedule for peeing which is good and I figure he'll fall back into once he's home for a full day.  He tends to go right after waking up at 6 and then before we leave for work at ~830 and will go immediately after we get back at 430.  He's always been good at that routine with him going after work and then around 9 when my girlfriend goes to bed.  I always thought it was odd he only went 4 times a day but that's what he's done for years.  I imagine all the fluids he's gotten have thrown him off.  And when he was at our place for a bit Sunday, he was just knocked out by the medication so I'm sure the combo of being knocked out with being off schedule led to his accident.  Not that I'm at all upset about it.  I'm gonna give him a bunch of accident passes over the next few weeks and certainly don't fault him.  He even let us know by vocalizing but he just couldn't do anything about it or hold it until we could get him outside.

The good news for us is that he's not a leg hiker and doesn't really "squat" in the traditional sense.  He sorta leans forward a bit and just kinda goes.  I imagine there's a term for this but I don't know what it is.  That's how all 3 of our dogs are except the Basset who hikes his leg ~25% of the time and does the same thing as the other two the rest.

Pooping I imagine is gonna be a whole thing for us but he'll get it worked out I'm sure.  Although he doesn't squat deeply to poo either so it may not be that bad.  He poops at 6 when waking up and generally at 9, although not every day.

Once again, since I haven't said it enough, thank you all for your feedback and input.  It means more to me than you could ever know.  I felt like a basket case three days ago and your comments combined with his incremental improvements at the hospital have really helped me center myself again with all this.  I finally feel confident we're ready for him coming home tonight.

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29 November 2017 - 8:16 am
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Hi again guys,

I know you had asked about pictures.  We got him home last night and things are progressing really, really well.

When he came home last night at about 6, I pulled back up to our porch and he had a hard time figuring out how to get into our place and struggled to walk enough to go to the bathroom.  I was supporting him ~70-80% with the sling.  At 10 before we went to bed, he was @~50% support, ~35% support @ 430 and probably 20-25% at 9 before I came to work this morning.  And he's been able to pee each time we took him out and figured out how to have a BM so we're both super happy.

I had originally assumed that he'd be sling supported for a couple of weeks.  At his current rate of progress, I'm thinking he may be able to do things on his own with periodic support by the end of the weekend.  I'm imagining that at some point he'll hit some type of wall but we'll come to that if it happens.  I'm also pessimistic by nature sometimes so he may continue on his current trend.

The GF is home with him today and she sent me some pictures and good news.  He stood up for the first time on his own and turned himself around.  And after that, he climbed up on the couch with minimal help from her.

Anyway, here's a shot of him standing up unassisted and a couple of them on the couch.

Standing up:  

View post on imgur.com

Couch #1:  

View post on imgur.com

Couch #2:  

View post on imgur.com

He certainly seems to be getting his spirits back up.  

The Rainbow Bridge

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29 November 2017 - 11:09 am
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Awww he is so happy to be home! That's terrific he's doing so well and getting around without much help. I have a feeling he is totally going to make you an optimist once this is over! 

Glad to know things are good, thanks for sharing the fun photos. Keep us posted!

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29 November 2017 - 12:02 pm
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Awwwwee what a sweetie! I'm glad he's doing well, I think we need a handsome face pic!!!

Hugs,

Jackie, David, Mitchell, Andy Oscar, and the coolest feral tripawd kitty Huckleberry

http://paws120......pawds.com/

Livermore, CA
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29 November 2017 - 2:12 pm
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Great! 

Yes, most pups are hopping on their own by a few days after surgery.  Sometimes the older and/or bigger dogs take a bit longer to get the hang of things.

He looks very happy on the couch getting a tummy rub!

Karen and the Spirit Pug Girls

Tri-pug Maggie survived a 4.5 year mast cell cancer battle only to be lost to oral melanoma.

1999 to 2010

 

              Maggie's Story                  Amputation and Chemo

Virginia
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29 November 2017 - 9:44 pm
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DOZER!!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂  I THINK EVERYONE HERE JUST FELL IN LOVE BIG TIME WITH YOUR CUTE SELF!! 🙂 🙂

DOZER OWNS THAT COUCH NOW!  🙂

And YAAAAAAAAAY FOR poopicon_png    We love to celebrate poopicon_png arlund here!

Keep these great updates AND loctures coming!!

Hugs

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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