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Please need to make decision about amputation before Monday AM (March 28) Please help!!!!!!!!!!!
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binky
1
25 March 2011 - 8:50 pm
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My 12 1/2 year old Aussie dog was just diagnosed with spindle cell cancer-my groomer found a big lump on her elbow on her right front leg on Wednesday--brought her to the vet that day--just got the test results tonight. The lump has gotten larger over the last few days so chances are it's malignant.

The blood work looks good--and the aspiration only showed spindle cell cancer--which I understand means they don't know what it without a biopsy. Vet says we should operate ASAP after a chest x-ray (if x-ray showed cancer we would just take her home and make her comfortable.)  I asked my vet if we should amputate and he said "if it were my dog, I would try to take out as much of the tumor as I could and then biopsy to see exactly what it is and we may be able to give her radiation and then see how it goes.

However, although Jingo is as energetic as a puppy, she is old, and I'm concerned what would happen if it grew back and we had to give her another operation--she is old and the operations are stressful--but what if they took it out and it didn't come back or came back a long time later and then I would feel guilty about amputating her leg. My questions:

1. Should we have it biopsied first to see what type it is before making a decision about amputation vs. removing tumor and the area around it? Does she need to be put to sleep for this? Would it be just as stressful to remove the mass as it would be to biopsy it?

2. Jingo is an Aussie-she lives to run and play. I see other dogs here doing well with three legs, but will the recuperation be so long and the shock and pain be so great that she will just be depressed for months before she gets better?

3. Will amputation drastically reduce the chances of the tumor coming back? Could it come back in another part of her body?

4. What is radiation like for a dog? Does it hurt them? Does it make them sick? Is it expensive? Does it take months or years?

I spent the last year of my G. Shepherd's life running a hospice for him as he was slowly disintegrating from Degenerative Myelopathy--I don't regret it, but it broke my spirit (and my bank account) for this kind of thing. Of course I will spend thousands of my dog,  but 5-10 thousand dollars will be extremely difficult for me to handle.

I am sick, upset and heartbroken. Any advise would be welcome--

 

Thank you so much.

 

Roberta

 

 

 

Las Vegas, Nevada
Member Since:
14 August 2009
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25 March 2011 - 9:52 pm
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I'm so sorry to hear about Jingo.  Oh gosh, it's such a hard decision when they are geriatric.  The recovery of surgeries is so hard.  But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't.  It's a personal decision based on how well you know your dog.

 

Not many of us here don't like radiation.  It is painful.  But I dont know for sure, I'm basing it on people radiation treatments.  And not many of us like the biopsy surgery either.  It's painful and it's surgery.  Most opt to have the leg biopsied once the leg is removed. 

 

There are others here that have dealt with spindle cell.  I'll let them tell you their experience.

Again, I'm sorry you have to go through this and I hope we can help you.

Comet's mom

Her Retired AvatarComet - 1999 to 2011

She departed us unexpectedly  January 23, 2011 at the age of 12 1/2.

She was born with a deformed front leg and a tripawd all of her life.

On The Road


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25 March 2011 - 10:33 pm
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Binky & Roberta,

We're sorry you are dealing with this, all of us understand how hard of a decision you are facing right now. This cancer stuff just throws your world upside down. We'll try to help as best we can.

binky said:

1. Should we have it biopsied first to see what type it is before making a decision about amputation vs. removing tumor and the area around it? Does she need to be put to sleep for this? Would it be just as stressful to remove the mass as it would be to biopsy it?

Like so many things about cancer, that answer is "it depends." A biopsy is a good idea if you don't know if you want to amputate. It will give you a better idea of your treatment options. There are two types of biopsies: a fine needle biopsy, which usually doesn't require anesthesia and recovery time, or a bone biopsy, which is a more invasive procedure. Read more about biopsies here in our interview with Dr. Pam Wiltzius.

2. Jingo is an Aussie-she lives to run and play. I see other dogs here doing well with three legs, but will the recuperation beso long and the shock and pain be so great that she will just be depressed for months before she gets better?

Yes, your dog is on the high end of the typical expectancy of an Aussie. Only you know how well she might be able to cope at her age. While we have had many senior dogs do well after amputation, a lot of it depends on their current health condition and resiliency. One last things: always remember, dogs don't get depressed the way humans do. They may get slower and quieter over time, but feelings like depression or regret are human things. They just don't feel them the same way we do, and unlike us, they move on after major changes like this. They live every minute to the fullest and don't look back.  Most dogs bounce back in a few weeks and continue carrying on the way they always have, albeit a bit more conservatively.

3. Will amputation drastically reduce the chances of the tumor coming back? Could it come back in another part of her body?

I'm not familiar with spindle cell sarcomas, so that's a question for your vet (do share here when you get the answers).

4. What is radiation like for a dog? Does it hurt them? Does it make them sick? Is it expensive? Does it take months or years?

Again, it depends what kind you get and where you get it. Here is a good description on Colorado State University's website. The cost depends on where you receive it. Treatment time again depends on what type of radiation therapy. Some can have it done in a handful of sessions, others need a couple of months. This is a question for an oncologist. Are you consulting with one right now? If not I highly recommend getting a referral from your vet if you are considering oncology care.

I spent the last year of my G. Shepherd's life running a hospice for him as he was slowly disintegrating from Degenerative Myelopathy--I don't regret it, but it broke my spirit (and my bank account) for this kind of thing. Of course I will spend thousands of my dog,  but 5-10 thousand dollars will be extremely difficult for me to handle.

From what I know about DM, this is far less of a heavy-maintenance type of situation. DM is far more involved than helping a dog recover from amputation and cope with cancer therapies.

I am sick, upset and heartbroken. Any advise would be welcome--

We can't blame you one bit, and we're here to help. Tune into to our Tripawd Talk Radio show tomorrow to chat with others who have been there and ask all the questions you want, we're here to help OK?

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

Chicago, IL
Member Since:
5 March 2011
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25 March 2011 - 11:04 pm
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Roberta,

We were in your shoes not too long along, given a deadline and just beside ourselves.  My advise on that front would be to take the time you need.  Obviously you are giving this the attention it deserves and will make a decision in a timely manner.  Having said that, in our case, the oncologist was right and I'd say we took too long (except we don't allow regrets around here.)

Our dog had a needle aspiration that was inconclusive and so we opted for a surgical biopsy of the bone.  They did knock him out for it but we brought him home the same day.  It took about 4 or 5 days for Tate to really get back to normal but his was in a difficult spot - the hip joint.  And then the biopsy came back inconclusive but I hear that is not too unusual for a bone biopsy.

I don't have the experience to address the rest of your questions.  Tate's 4, and we're less than 2 weeks into recovery.  But I will tell you that I don't know where we'd be without the people here.  You are in the worst part of it now but we're all here for you.

When you're up to it, please post a picture of Jingo!  We'd love to see your baby!

Jan

http://tate.tripawds.com/
August 16, 2006 to November 28, 2011
TATE ~ Forever in our hearts.


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26 March 2011 - 12:56 am
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Spindle cell is a soft tissue tumor so it would be fairly easy to get a biospy but would need anesthesia.  If this was my dog I would agree with your vet and de-bulk the tumor and send the tissue for biopsy.  Some of these are slow-growing so your dog may outlive the tumor.  Depending on the grade of tumor your dog might need an amputation to cure the cancer.  If it is high-grade I would take chest rads first.

Pam

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26 March 2011 - 5:55 am
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Welcome to the family.I will tell you MY feelings about a couple of your questions. We were never sure about what kind of cancer Gus had, we did a bone biopsy and it came back negative. We sent the x-ray to OSU and another radiaologoist down in Columbus also looked at the x-ray, and both felt we were dealing with a cancer, but he never had a lump, there was a shadowy spot in his upper left front leg. Gus was already limping when we did the biopsy, the vet said he took a small sample in 4 different places, he was in worse pain after that, so my take on a bone biopsy is I wouldn't waste the money if I have 2-3 vets saying the same thing, it wasted time and money IN OUR CASE. rely on your vet, sounds like you are dealing with a different kind of cancer. I have found Dr. Pams advice to be quite helpful for alot of people here, use it along with your vets. We didn't do chemo or radiation partly for finances, more for quality of life, Gus was like your dog, made to run . Unfortunately he only lasted 3 1/2 months after surgery, the vet was even surprised at how aggresive the cancer was, he ended up having a huge lump on his neck, probably a little bigger than a grapefruit. Once he healed he was himself and only his last couple days was he slower than normal. Full plate, you bet, my advice is try to make a decision you won't second guess yourself on, that will kill you. I don't regret doing anything the way I did it. Would I do it again the same way, don't know, I think it would depend on the situation, but this journey is a roller coaster, so make your decision so your not always second guessing yourself, know you are doing what you feel is best for Jingo. Good luck. Paws up, Spirit Gus and Dan  

My buddy Gus had a left front amputation on April 7, 2010 and lived a great life until July 26,2010

My heart lives at Rainbow Bridge
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26 March 2011 - 6:28 am
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Dan is absolutely correct - make the choice YOU can live with.  You know your circumstances and you know your dog.  Make the choice for your dog's quality of life. Only you know what that is.

Just as an example - my situation was different than yours, we were 90% sure were dealing with osteosarcoma, and had two veterinary opinions.  I would never have put Trouble through a bone biopsy first knowing the only way to stop the pain was to amputate.

With a soft tissue tumor, your choices are a little less harsh.

Shanna & Spirit Trouble ~ Trouble gained her wings 3/16/2011, a 27 1/2 month cancer survivor, tail wagging. RIP sweetheart, you are my heart and soul.  Run free at Rainbow Bridge.
The November Five - Spirits Max, Cherry, Tika, Trouble & Nova. 11/2008 - 3/2013 An era ends as Queen Nova crossed the Bridge.

Kirkland, WA
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2 June 2009
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26 March 2011 - 8:27 am
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As per everyone else, making a decision you are comfortable with is the most important thing.  We were also dealing with osteosarcoma, but we did not know that until the amputation was complete and the pathology report came back.  All I knew was that there was a tumor - it could have been any number of things, but for me, I wanted the leg off right away so that, in my mind, Jack would have less time with a tumor making mischief in his body.  I never once regretted my decision.  He was a candidate for limb-sparing surgery, but it would have been impossible to remove all the microscopic cancer cells living around the bulk of the tumor, so I opted to just amputate and get rid of the whole thing.  We got an extra 14 months together and I loved every minute of it.  As for activity, Jack was WAY more active after his amputation than he was before. I think he was feeling so much better that he just loved being able to run and play again.  Your dog will have to recover which means about 4 weeks of rest, relaxation, no hard running, etc, but in our situation, amputation did not slow down Jack, but rather gave him a new zest for life (people would see him run and not even notice he only had 3 legs - he could also jump just as high as he could before amputation).  Some people do have poor experiences during recovery, so it is important to understand the possible outcomes in order to make the best decision for you and Jingo.  Good luck!!!  Decisions are hard twisted

 

<3 Laura and Invisible Jackers

Winnipeg
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13 July 2009
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26 March 2011 - 9:16 am
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Hi Roberta

Welcome. Sorry you and Jingo had to find this site. Most of the cancer dogs on this site have some form of bone cancer such as OSA, osteosarcoma. So most of us can't really advise, given your vet suspects something different for Jingo (which is probably a good thing). For OSA, people usually diagnose it by x-ray (as Trouble said 90% sure) and not by a biopsy , so that will explain why some of us might advise against biopsy if we remember our own situation. But your situation is different since Spindle Cell is a soft tissue tumor. I think that means you are talking minor surgery but not a really painful biopsy.

TazzieDog who responded is a vet (and her dog also happened to have OSA), so definitely heed her advice.

I looked into radiation for my dog, once he had secondaries. It does not sound like a horrible thing with side effects the way it does for people. Usually they give dogs lesser doses when it comes to either chemo or radiation: emphasis is always on quality not quantity of life. If you happen to live near CSU or a place in Florida, you can get a very high end, high dose but focused form of radiation due to the special machine they have. Elsewhere, the more common machine is less focused, which means the dose has to be lower to avoid side effects.

The information can be overwhelming but try to take it one step at a time. Why do you feel as though you have to decide on amputation by Monday morning? In contrast to most of us OSA dog people, it sounds as though you sure could use the information a biopsy could provide before making that decision.

Just thought of something I might ask a vet: you said you saw a big difference in growth within a few days - should that influence your decision?

 

binky
10
26 March 2011 - 9:55 am
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I'm just in awe and overwhelmed by the love and support you've shown me and Jingo.

Just like everyone here, I had to shake off my shock and pain to do some research and try to understand more about all the options. Your comments have been very, very, helpful and the fact that you can relate to the emotional devastation that occurs once a diagnosis is given, means the world to me, my husband, and Jingo.

I've known my vet for 30 years and was one of his first clients in his practice--he was fresh out of vet school. I'm so lucky to be able to have that. I live in Tucson where we have some great veterinary oncologists and state-of-the-art equipment. I now have a number of questions to ask my doctor, including whether Jingo should have an ultrasound, cat scan or additional tests prior to surgery and whether he will amputate if when he goes in, he sees that there's no way he can get out a substantial amount of the cancer.

I'm off to do more research and make some calls--and of course, play with my beloved Jingo.

Blessings to you and your families, both with and without fur.

 

 

Chicago, IL
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5 March 2011
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26 March 2011 - 10:32 am
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Thanks for the pic...what a happy-looking sweetie-pie!

http://tate.tripawds.com/
August 16, 2006 to November 28, 2011
TATE ~ Forever in our hearts.

12
26 March 2011 - 11:00 am
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Hi Roberta,

 

Orion Powell, my wonderful English Sheppard Mix, who will turn 12 yo (around) April 4th, was diagnosed with fibrosarcoma in December and had his left rear leg amputated on Janruary 14th.  I agree with all of the good advice above, and can understand your concern with doing all of what needs to be done considering Jingo's age.  I, too, worried about putting him through all of what needed to be done  at his age.  He first had surgery to remove as much of the tumor as could be removed which was sent for a biopsy.  When the results came back positive, we were referred to a specialty hospital where he saw an oncologist.  She recommendedan amputation after his abdominal ultrasound and chest xray were negative.  The first few days to a week were horrible and I wondered if I made the right decision.  Day by day he gained strength and now, after two months, he has been going to his beloved dog park, walks a little more each day and visits his grandmother every Saturday.  He finished his third or five chemo therapies on Wednesday which he has been getting just in case there are any microscopic cells floating around.  He has had repeat and ultrasounds and chest x rays on his first and third treatments and so far everything has been negative.  The best part of it all is that he is still the same old Orion.  His personality, wants, needs, love, etc are still the same.  The only thing that was removed was a leg and, best of all, the cancer.  I won't tell you that it's not expensive as I'm sure you are aware of that.  For me, I don't regret a penny of it.   Again, as everyone else can attest it's a personal decision and based on what your particular situation is at the moment.  I just wanted to share with you my thoughts and experience as it pertains to the age factor issue.

 

Best of Luck to you and Jingo.  Orion and Greg.

Topanga, CA
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28 December 2010
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26 March 2011 - 12:06 pm
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We just wanted to throw in our 2 cents here too.

We discovered lumps on Pebbles front left leg in November 2010. We had the vet look at them and she wasn't sure what they were and recommended we keep an eye on them. Nothing changed until mid December when they suddenly started to grow fast - marbles to golf balls in a few days.

She had lung x-rays (clear!) and the lumps biopsied. She was diagnosed with malignant cutaneous melanoma. We were given 2 choices with this cancer, keep her comfortable until the end (the biopsied areas on her leg were not healing, only getting worse) or amputate.

Pebbles is now 14, and has hip displaisia - yet she is doing very well. She actually moves faster on 3 legs than she used to on four, she just tires out a little quicker. Tomorrow will be her 3 month ampuversary. It wasn't a difficult choice for us. Pebbles sparkled and except for the leg was totally healthy. The best part of it all is that she is happy!

It took some work at first and a lot of patience, but 3 months later we still have our girl.

Do what feels right for you. I hope this helps some.

On The Road


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24 September 2009
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26 March 2011 - 1:21 pm
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If you have not already done so, be sure to bookmark Jerry's Required Reading List which includes links answering many of the questions you ask. Best wishes, please keep us posted.

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

Portage Lake, Maine
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8 December 2009
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26 March 2011 - 8:13 pm
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Hi Roberta,

My dog, Maggie, had a soft tissue sarcoma on her rear knee.  She had a needle aspirate but that was inconclusive really...showed what they thought was fluid/blood from an old injury...which made the vet think she may have an ACL injury, not cancer, even though he really couldn't get a 'drawer sign' with her sedated on that knee.(btw, this was the 2nd vet I went to that said it was possible ACL).

So, then made another appt with another vet, which ended up eventually being Maggie's surgeon to amputate her leg, and she did a punch biopsy, chest x-rays and ultrasounded her internal organs.  She was pretty sure just by taking out some cells and looking at them herself, we were dealing with cancer but she wanted to do the biopsy.  So we did.

My surgeon got 10 cm of clear margins by taking her leg up to the hip. 

I have no advice on the radiation as Maggie has been treated by homeopathy since December 2009.

You know your dog best....follow your heart in your decisions...follow your pup's lead..she will tell you what to do...

Tracy, Maggie's Mom

Maggie was amputated for soft tissue sarcoma 10-20-09

Maggie lost her battle with kidney disease on 8-24-13

http://maggie.t.....t-24-2013/

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