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New Diagnosis for 10.5 year old lab
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Member Since:
14 September 2017
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14 September 2017 - 8:41 pm
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Our very vibrant 10.5 year old lab (super athletic, acts like a pup still, hard to keep calm), just got the dreaded OSA diagnosis.

Distal Left Ulna. Not super common site.  No mets on x-ray (I know it doesn't matter, they are there).  Conflicted.  It is swollen and painful (mild limp).  This is one of the better locations for limb sparing (non weight bearing so no reconstruction/bone replacement needed), yet it seems discouraged.  There does seem to be moderate soft tissue involvement.  I don't know what to do for him.  We can do chemo and will probably choose to do so, but do we do full amp, or try for limb spare?  Anyone with success or heard of success?  I'm scared for him, he is so so hyper and loves to hike, run and swim. 

Also, do most on here with osteosarcoma diags get CT scans just to make sure about mets?  

Thanks, sorry for the discombotulated message, I'm tired and very sad.  He is a once in a lifetime dog.

On The Road


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14 September 2017 - 9:29 pm
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Hey there, welcome. What's your awesome doggie's name? I'm so sorry about the diagnosis, it's the last thing you ever expect to hear, especially when you have such an active, fit dog. 

Yes, a CT scan is recommended before surgery to check for mets. Has he had his yet?

What do you mean "it seems discouraged" about the limb spare? And I'm also curious, where will it be done? It's a good option for dogs who aren't good candidates for amputation. As you know it carries a lot of different risks, but when it works and there are no complications, the results are incredible. How I wish every dog could come through that procedure with no issues and keep their leg. I"ve met dogs who've had it done and they were amazing. But success also depends greatly on where you get it done, and how skilled the surgeon is. The thing to keep in mind is that it's a much more complicated surgery for an aggressive disease with an outcome that is unfortunately, still the same as if you amputated. 

It sounds like your dog is otherwise healthy and has every chance to make the most of life on three legs if you decide to amputate. Yes, your life together will take a different turn, but it's something that will deepen your bond even more, and leave you both with so many great times and new adventures. I know that's hard to believe right now, but I think many people here will say the same thing.

For now, breathe, and know that no matter what you decide: amputate or limb spare, chemo or no, whatever, we will support your decision and help you when you need it. Whatever you decide there are no wrong choices.

Be sure to check out Jerry's Required Reading List for more about what to expect now that you've gotten the news, and helpful tips about life on three legs. And holler if you have any questions OK? 

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

Virginia







Member Since:
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15 September 2017 - 8:53 am
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Sounds like your pup is a perfect example of "age is just a.number"!  Labs seem to be eternal playful puppies!

Sorry about the diagnosis, but as you can see from Jerry's reply there is a lot of support and information here!  And remember, your pup doesn't care about any ole' diagnosis and certainly doesn't care about days on a calendar!

One thing about the amputation, it's ine surgery and done.  Of course, it is major surgery and all surgeries carry risks.  There is a recovery period that can be pretty rough for the first week or two.  The resilience of dogs to bounce back is truly amazing!  Most dogs are up and walking within 24 hrs. And after recovery time, they can pretty much resume to normal activities with a few boundaries.

You will make a decision out of love and that will always be the right decision.

STAY CONNECTED and let us know how we can help!  We understand like no others can. YOU ARE. IT ALONE!

Hugs

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

PS. Many dogs just get xrays to chexk their lungs.

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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15 September 2017 - 9:27 am
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Hi Jerry, thank you so much for your kind reply.  I respect your wisdom.  His name is Zale.  We also have his sister/littermate, a black lab.  Both are field labs and have spent their lives hiking up mountains and swimming :). We live in Washington State (San Juan area).

His leg does have swelling .... he had very sporadic/infrequent limping starting in February and it was believed to be wrist arthritis.  Metacam every once in awhile helped and he didn't have much limping until I left for a trip end of August and hubby said he started limping some again.  I got back and holy crap his leg was way different with the swelling.  We've done the biopsy as well which confirmed OSA.  The radiologist reading the x-rays indicated "moderate" soft tissue swelling.

I've had two consults with two different surgical vets.  The 1st surgeon said yeah with the ulna there is a good potential for limb spare, but if there is a large amount of soft tissue involvement that wouldn't be an option.  Recommended a CT scan to check that and for lung mets. (I have read the ulna location has slower metastasis).  Makes perfect sense, have to get those good margins or there is no point.  She's a younger vet, which isn't necessarily bad in my opinion as they are often more open to alternatives vs. just amputation.  She also did an exam to make sure he wasn't super arthritic and a poor candidate for any type of surgery, and other than having a half dozen lipomas he's doing great (he's very lean and muscular). Experience is the only concern, I would ask how many of these she has done before committing.

By discouraged, the second surgeon said he would probably not consider ulnectomy due to complications.  He said "I'm afraid we would end up with a giant mess and everyone would be unhappy."  He also mentioned having to do an allograft, which I am not sure why.    Unless there is > 50% of bone, but then it would be a no go anyhow.  The ulna isn't weight bearing and is generally able to be just cut out.  Luckily there is lower risk for pathological fracture, or I suspect Zale would already have one (he's very hyper and still difficult to keep calm... he just wants to Go.  LOL).

He also said having lung mets would stop everything ... which is, of course, understandable, but also said he wouldn't do a CT scan because "it wouldn't change anything".  My understanding is that there are almost always micro mets in the lungs, so I assumed what he meant were macro mets on the x-rays and that micro mets would not change the course of treatment for amputation.  He did not examine Zale.  

He's got 25 years of surgical experience and claimed to do an amputation nearly every day.  That sounded a bit suspect, but eh... I am being very cautious and need to have full trust.  The ulna isn't weight bearing and is generally able to be just cut out. Unless there is > 50% of bone, but then it would be a no go anyhow.  However, I don't want to go that route if it's got a high chance of causing more stress and risk for our dog.  For some reason he made me feel like amputation was the easiest course, and he could knock it out quickly vs. a more involved surgical limb spare.  He also said he wasn't impressed with the cyberknife radiation and bisphosphanates were not impressive either.  I don't know, does he fear for his future with new advances?  :).  I understand the risks of choosing limb spare.  

In terms of other options, I've looked at them all.  Honestly, I don't think radiation therapy is a good course, seems like putting a dog under so often is just so tough, and the costs are not that much less than surgery.  If we go down the route of surgery, we will also do chemo(carboplatin) which our local vet is able to perform.  

Thanks for reading all this.  I really respect everyone on here that has or is going through this with their pups.

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15 September 2017 - 9:37 am
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Hi Sally and alumni :).  Yes, with his vibance and high spirit, we honestly believed he would be a 15 year lab.  He truely is a total 1000% living life labrador.  Difficult for him right now because activity is restricted.  We are somewhat "lucky" with the ulna location, because he is so bounding all the time.  The amputation is tough, we know.  We are scared that the front leg will be more difficult.  He is still using that leg.  It's not so painful that he's completely lame, but I know bone cancer hurts.  We did have chest x-rays done already.  Do you feel that is enough since it's macro mets that are more concerning?

Yep, this diagnosis sucks.  We want to do the right thing for our boy.  It makes it harder because he is such a spaz.  Nothing seems to stop him.

Thank you again for the kind reply.  I appreciate you taking the time.

benny55 said
Sounds like your pup is a perfect example of "age is just a.number"!  Labs seem to be eternal playful puppies!

Sorry about the diagnosis, but as you can see from Jerry's reply there is a lot of support and information here!  And remember, your pup doesn't care about any ole' diagnosis and certainly doesn't care about days on a calendar!

One thing about the amputation, it's ine surgery and done.  Of course, it is major surgery and all surgeries carry risks.  There is a recovery period that can be pretty rough for the first week or two.  The resilience of dogs to bounce back is truly amazing!  Most dogs are up and walking within 24 hrs. And after recovery time, they can pretty much resume to normal activities with a few boundaries.

You will make a decision out of love and that will always be the right decision.

STAY CONNECTED and let us know how we can help!  We understand like no others can. YOU ARE. IT ALONE!

Hugs

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

PS. Many dogs just get xrays to chexk their lungs.  

Westminster, MD
Member Since:
31 August 2013
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15 September 2017 - 9:39 am
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Hi there, so sorry about your Lab boy and his diagnosis, the "ugly c" in a pet sure changes your entire life around..... I am a Lab lover through and through, and I definitely can relate to their endless and boundless energy for most of their life. My first Lab girl lived to be almost 16 and she never slowed down till her last year of life. 

You have already been given great advice by Rene and Sally, and my personal experience with my angel Tripawd girl Polly was with a different type of cancer, so I can't give any knowledgeable info, just want to let you know that there is a ton of support and resources here, so keep us updated on your pup and his upcoming journey 💜🐾

Keeping you in my thoughts,

Bonnie, Angel Polly, Pearl, and Zuzu 💝

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15 September 2017 - 9:42 am
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Thank you so much Bonnie.  Amazing your baby lived until near 16.  So sorry you went thru cancer with your pup.

Virginia







Member Since:
22 February 2013
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15 September 2017 - 11:54 pm
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Y

For whatever it's worth, you are doing an excellent job in gathering as much information as possible for your magnificent Zale!  When you get conflicting opinions, it just makes a tough sitw even tougher.  Ugh!!

As far as xrays versus CT, I can only say that, when it comes to osteo, most here do just xrays. The Onco for Happy Hannah only mentioned xrays.....didn't even offer CzT as an option. 

It wasn't too long ago that amputation s were not recommended if mets were fou pnd.  The newer thinking is to proceed regardless.  Amputation removes a very painful leg and, after recovery, gives pups extended quality time.  And we say often here, no dog has a timeframe stamped on his butt and he does not care about days on a calendar.

My Hzppy Hznnah was a rear legger.  I have since adopted a front legger tripawd Coonhound.  He lives everyday to the fullest with zero regard for the fact that he only has ONE front keg.  My biggest hurdle with him is trying to stop him from doing wild and  razy scary things that could hurt his front leg!!

Your second Vet made a lot of valid points. 

PICTURES!!!   WE NEED PICTURES OF ZALE! 🙂

Hugs

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
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17 May 2014
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16 September 2017 - 7:08 am
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Hello Zale's human.  I have been a tripawd mom for Johnnie for over 3 years, a big 90-lb male Golden that was diagnosed when he was 5 1/2, front-leg amputee.  From my experience:

1) if you can do a CT scan, do it because it will be awfully helpful in the surgery in order to guide the surgeon for a clear margin;

2) with OSA it is important to have an oncologist vet and also an orthopedic surgeon, because each will do its part.  

3) chemo is what follows the surgery, and they handle it quite well.

4) from what I have seen in the forums, the orthopedic surgeons usually go for the full removal.  Dogs adapt quite well on three legs, especially when they are active.   A partial amputation will result in the need of a prosthetic device to help him walk again, so this has to be seen in advance.  There are cases here in the community where dogs have had to undergo a second surgery to remove the remaining stub.

Do go through the reading list and browse the forums because different stories show that it is possible to live a happy doggie life on three legs.

regards, 

Daniela & Johnnie

Our awesome Golden Boy was diagnosed for OSA in April 2014 in the proximal humerus, front-leg amp on 05/20/2014. Finished chemo (Carbo6) on 07/10/2014. Ongoing treatment: acupuncture + K-9 Immunity Plus ( 3chews) and home-cooked no-grain diet.   Stopped Apocaps because of liver issues.   Liver issues: controlling altered enzymes with SAM-e and Milk Thistle.  October 17:  started having seizures.  Taking fenobarbital for seizures.  April 18: started prednisone.

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16 September 2017 - 12:42 pm
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Thank you Sally&Alumni; Daniela & Johnnie.

We are scheduled for Tuesday and of course I am still freaking out and doubting.  Osteo is such a nasty beast, and I don't want to put him thru unnecessary pain and suffering.  He's still using his front leg pretty well, just a slight limp.  Of course, labs are so stoic, and he's so crazy.  I think the ulna location means less pain when walking, as very little weight bearing on that leg.  I am scared this will just make it harder, he is definitely still a four legged hound.

Thank you for your thoughts and advice.

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