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hemangiosarcoma prognosis
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Member Since:
9 September 2016
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16 September 2016 - 8:45 am
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Thank you everyone for your support and input.. Yes Fred is stable right now, as the vet said the spleen shouldn't be bothering him at the moment.. In terms of the danger of it bursting, I don't know if anyone can speak about it with any certainty.. I think that's the nature of hemangiosarcoma.. 

And sorry, I dont know your name.. Murphy parent.. yes that is a very tough decision.. it really is one of the worst things about this whole process is having to make them.  On the other hand it's a huge benefit, to have that option, to relieve someone of their pain. 

Cannabutter -- cannabis infused coconut oil.. I made a batch the other day and last night was trying to figure out the right amount to give to Fred by trying it myself first. I was way way off in the measurements.. It was quite an experience, not exactly a positive one.. I am still stoned.. Need to get a syringe for precise measurements and repeat this with a much much smaller amount.

A stroller sounds like it may be a good idea. I do drive him to different places, like a local park where all he wanted to do for years is go around sniffing picnic tables and looking for scraps of food which I would never let him do -- now we go there to do just that.  I do take him for lots of short walk and I try to take him to different places with lots of smells.  I also now take him to work with me.. I suspect tripawds can get away with a lot of things four legged dogs cant. I kind of wish we had a handicapped sticker for the car.

Regarding pain meds I am still trying to figure out what's going on.. it seemed that taking him off carprofen wasn't working out, he seemed to be much less active without it and i feel like he would seem uncomfortable at night.  But then it could've been a coincidence because I observed the same behavior yesterday with carprofen, and to me it appears to be more nausea or a stomachache rather than pain coming from surgery site (although how can you really tell for sure).  Later in the evening he threw up and he seemed much better after so now I wonder if it's the meds that are making him nauseous or giving him a stomachache.. I tried giving him tramadol before bed and that doesn't necessarily seem to be helping. I suppose I can try to up the dosage.  This is another reason reason I wanted to try to cannabutter. Supposedly once you get the amount right and they develop tolerance to the psychoactive effects, you can use it for pain relief with much less side effects that any meds.. will let you know once I figure out how that's done.. 

Sorry for the ranting post.. the cannabutter is yet to fully wear out from last night.. 

Virginia







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16 September 2016 - 9:18 am
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You're not ranting at all! You're trying to do the very best for Fred you can and we applaud you for that! Your love for Fred comes shinning through with every word and action!heart

Certainly meds can upset Fred's tummy. You may ask the vet about Cerenia for nausea. It seems ro help a lot. I'm sure you're already giving the meds with food to help coat the tummy.

I nad to laugh at your Cannabutter experience! Glad you tried it out on yourself before Fred!!

I'm not sure where you can search, but PLEASE try and find a vet or holistic vet you can consult with to help you with the doseage AND type that should be used for Fred. As an aside, the coconut oil itself, in a few dogs may give them a queasy tummy, so I don't know if that's the best vehicle. May, or may not, even be an issue.

We're all cheering for Fred!! Keep in mind that in Fred's world,all is well and good!! And it will be that way for a looooooooooooooooooooooong time!clap

Hugs!

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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22 September 2016 - 1:38 pm
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It looks like we've moved on to a new stage, which doesn't seem to be very consistent but there is pattern emerging..

The breathing tends to be very rapid and shallow and he doesn't seem to sleep very much, just kind of lays there with his eyes open.  Very difficult to say but there don't seem to be any obvious signs of pain - also giving tramadol doesn't seem to affect this much. I give him two tramadols before bed, and he wakes up around 4am.. I give him two more, this morning he calmed down and seemed okay, but when I look at him he is not sleeping...

 He still eats, not with the same enthusiasm as before, but it's not hard to get him to eat.. and goes out and sniffs things and seems to be interested in being outside.. obviously not the extent in the past, but still.. Could this be the cancer moving into his lungs? Or heart?  I will take him for an x-ray, if this continues but thought I'd get some feedback.. 

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22 September 2016 - 3:51 pm
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I posted a forum shortly after I lost my Otis on how to tell if your dog is breathing normally.  Cancer can impact the lungs in several ways.  I would definitely recommend the X-rays.  It enabled us to see what was going on with Otis (although hope you have a better outcome).

Otis - 106 pound lab/Dane mix, lost his right front leg to osteosarcoma on Febuary 9, 2016.  Four rounds of carboplatin completed in April, 2016.  Lung mets August 25, 2016.  Said goodbye too soon on September 4, 2016.   Lost his adopted sister, Tess, suddenly on October 9, 2016. likely due to hemangiosarcoma.  

Wherever they are, they are together.

Virginia







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22 September 2016 - 9:16 pm
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Geez Fred! Let's get things figured out sonyiu can go get more "scraps off the tables" when you go to the park!

If Fred is having issues with the lungs, an xray will help make that determination. It's even possible he could have a respiratory infection.

IF..big IF...he does have lung mets there are still things that can be done, at a very minimum, to make him more comfortable and give him better quality. My Happy Hannw did develop a vrig met and Prednisone did help!! IF it's lung related,whether respiratory or met, laying down can interfere with the breathing pattern and interrupt sleep.

Wonder if propping his head up on pillows may help?

Yeah, I get him checked out just because there may be some things that can help him feel better once they identify the problem.

Stay connected and let us k ow what's going on.

Oh, did he get to go sswimming the other day?? Hope you have pictures!

Lots of hugs!!

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

On The Road


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22 September 2016 - 10:48 pm
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Hmmm. Yes, it could be but it's so hard to say without an x-ray. I know it's easy to think it's mets, but try not to go there until you see the vet. When you do, IF it's mets, there are ways to make him comfortable and have a good quality of life for a while longer.

Here's the post Christine referred to:

http://tripawds.....-normally/

Let us know how it goes OK? We're thinking of you both and hoping for good news.

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

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23 September 2016 - 5:47 am
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Thank you everyone!!

I just counted the breaths and it's exactly 40, which seems high for him, but considering everything that's going on, probably not terribly high.  He does seem to have developed a tendency to overheat very easily, often just from laying on a soft surface even when it's 70-75 degrees.  He does have very thick coat.  I will try propping his head up on a pillow next time he looks like he's uncomfortable to see if that helps.

I will hold off on the x-rays for now. The notes on what's normal were very helpful -- thank you again. Honestly I feel guilty taking him to the vet even if it's for bloodwork, just because of how traumatic it is.  I do it if I feel like it's necessary, but it's always a big consideration.

I got the Cerenia pills as was suggested earlier and they seem to help a lot.  Even when he doesn't sleep he doesn't look uncomfortable.  It also seems to have brought back to an almost normal level the amount of things he finds and eats in various parking lots and picnic areas. Never thought that would actually make me happy.  Not sure if I've overreacted about the breathing and the not sleeping.. I usually wake up when he wakes in the middle of the night and then I can't go back to sleep and that has been going on for a while. I may be losing it a bit. My boyfriend seems so much more chill about everything, but I guess someone needs to stay sane.

There are definitely times when it does look like something bad is going on, but then shortly after he jumps off the bed and runs into the back yard to look for cats or to go into the kitchen to beg for food. 

We are 4 weeks post op today. It's funny how perspective changes.. when you first have to process the idea of amputation and how horrible and inconcievable it seems and first.. and now it seems like the least of our worries. 

Thank you again, everyone, for your support and advice.. 

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23 September 2016 - 5:56 am
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This will sound stupid, but Otis also woke up in the middle of the night.  Chemo gave him indigestion (onco put him on Pepcid A/C), and he seemed to get nauseous when his stomach got empty.  I would give him half a cup of kibble and he would go back to sleep.  (Ok, Otis has passed and I am now discovering what a bad solution that was in terms of the rest of my furry household expecting a 2:00 am nibble, but it worked at the time.). 

Otis - 106 pound lab/Dane mix, lost his right front leg to osteosarcoma on Febuary 9, 2016.  Four rounds of carboplatin completed in April, 2016.  Lung mets August 25, 2016.  Said goodbye too soon on September 4, 2016.   Lost his adopted sister, Tess, suddenly on October 9, 2016. likely due to hemangiosarcoma.  

Wherever they are, they are together.

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23 September 2016 - 6:11 am
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Interesting.. Fred is on metronimic chemo as of two days ago, but I suspect that won't have side-effects for a while. I assumed that food would make it worse, but may be worth a shot.  

We don't really have anyone else in our houseful that wants food at 3am so we should be okay there 🙂 Thank you!

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23 September 2016 - 9:18 am
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You might want to ask your onco about Pepcid A/C too.

Otis - 106 pound lab/Dane mix, lost his right front leg to osteosarcoma on Febuary 9, 2016.  Four rounds of carboplatin completed in April, 2016.  Lung mets August 25, 2016.  Said goodbye too soon on September 4, 2016.   Lost his adopted sister, Tess, suddenly on October 9, 2016. likely due to hemangiosarcoma.  

Wherever they are, they are together.

Virginia







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23 September 2016 - 9:44 am
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Okay, after reading your most recent post this morning, I'd like to offer a tidbit of advice. Not only Be More Dog , but BE MORE BOYFRIEND!! 🙂 It does, indeed, sound like Fred is holding steady and enjoying quality time with his humans, not to mention the joy he finds in "treats" scattered around!!

As far as the breathing rate for big dogs, Fred is not all that out of line at all! And it could be that he is sleeping UNTIL he "senses" you are about to wake up. Soooo, by the time you open your eyes, he's already watching you!

And certainly if vet trips cause undue stress for Fred, there is no reason to subject him to that now while he's holding so steady.

DEEP BREATHS....lots and lots of DEEP BREATHS.....combined with lots of CHOCOLATE!! Living in the NOW...in the MOMENT! No need to count breaths are hoover him watching every little twitch! Let NOTHING rob you of your time together!! I KNOW it's jard, so darn hard! But your love for Fred is so strong you will be able to Be More Dog AND MORE BOYFRIEND!!

You are doing a SPECTACULAR job! You are stronger than you are giving yiurself credit for!

Lots of love!!

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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23 September 2016 - 11:09 am
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Haha.. thanks Sally. I know you're right and I know there is a reason Fred seems to be way happier around my boyfriend and sometimes seems to sort of hate me..  Yes, I know I need to take that advice... and maybe give canna-butter another shot.

And yes, it is incredibly hard to make the best of it and not let grief take over.  At times. More often than not.. Be more boyfriend.



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25 September 2016 - 6:58 am
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Hi there Fred and family🐾❤️

Just joining in, my girl Eurydice is a Great Dabe who lost her right front leg to osteosarcoma 4 1/2 months ago and has bounced back really nicely. 

You are doing a great job with Fred, down to trying canna butter beforehand, that was a really funny story 😂

Being more dog is the key when facing cancer and remembering they don't know what that word means and are so happy to be with us! 

Fred is a lucky dog having such great pawrents, keep up the good work 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

Sendingyou lots of hugs and cuddles to your cutie pie 🐾❤️🐶

Eurydice 77kg/170lb Great Dane limping end of April 2016, amputation (right front leg/osteosarcoma) 4 May 2016 6 courses of carboplatin followed by metronomic therapy, lung mets found 30 Nov 2016. 3 courses of doxorubicin, PET scan 26 Jan 2017 showed more mets so stopped chemo. Holistic route April 2017. Lung X-ray 5 May 2017 showed several tennis ball size mets, started cortisone and diuretics. Miss Cow earned her XXL silver wings 12 June 2017, 13 months and 1 week after amputation and 6 1/2 months after lung mets, she was the goofiest dawg ever and is now happily flying from cloud to cloud woof woofing away :-) 

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3 October 2016 - 6:21 am
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A little over 5 weeks post op.. the beginning of last week we were doing really well, moving better, moving lots.. appetite was back and then it all went downhill.. suddenly he got nauseous, and had what looked like a fever, then threw up and calmed down and since then has not been the same.  He didn't seem to be in distress, was still eating and pooping, etc.. so I just let it be considering how much he hates the vet..

Yesterday he started look like was in pain.. took him in, he had a slight fever and the vet said that his bowels shut down, which apparently is possible even though he is still pooping.  Gave him some meds to get them going and also an antibiotic shot since he had a slight fever.  He did say that the spleen has gotten much bigger, which I totally agree with .. I think it's the spleen that's bothering him.. we sort of made the decision to leave it alone considering the prognosis, but now the way things are.. there is no more quality time, so I think it's going to be a matter of either ending things things or attempting to remove the spleen.  The vet said "we got nothing to lose" and that if they open him up and see that other organs are obviously affected, which he thinks is going to be the case, they just don't bring him back.. so we would be taking him in for surgery, but chances are we would be saying our goodbyes.  I always thought when the time comes, I would call the vet to come to our house because I don't want his last experience to be going to the place he hates the most.. I also question this whole idea.. another surgery, even if he pulls through, I don't know he would even be able to walk on his three legs, considering it's a major surgery, and then there is still the fact that he has a very aggressive cancer, on one hand.. on the other hand.. he was just starting to get good at using his three legs and enjoying things again, maybe he would feel lots better if the spleen was gone.. if feels huge and hard and I can imagine it's uncomfortable and the weight of it doesn't help.. I guess it's also a matter of justifying putting him through the amputation.. I know we made the best decision we could've at the time (thinking it's osteosarcoma and that he would have more time), but .. it is what it is.. 

I keep hoping he doesn't wake up in the morning and it would all be over, but that's just not how things go.. 

Kansas City
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3 October 2016 - 10:14 am
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I'm so so sorry you're going through this, and I know it isn't easy at all.

You know what's best for Fred, but try to remove yourself from the humanization of what he is going through.  Dogs are highly adaptable, and above all, they aren't judgemental.  Whatever you do decide, Fred will never judge you.

I'll off this as a positive aspect of attempting to remove the spleen:  He's getting around on three legs, therefore mobility won't be as difficult as it was post-amputation.  He's mastered that hurdle.  Now it's just a different obstacle course.  But his muscles will know how to move his body and the surgery will be more "normal", in some respects.  He will have pain medications to keep him mostly comfortable through recovery as well.  And in a worst-case scenario, if the standard recovery period ends, and he's nowhere near where he should be, you can still proceed with the parting at your home where he is comfortable.  If it does come to pass that it's spread to different organs when they open him up, a peaceful goodbye there is no bad thing.  You can make the morning of the vet trip super special for him.  Here, my vet is pretty standard about bringing in the night before.  Perhaps, if your vet is the same, you can discuss with him/her about skipping the overnight stay and delivering him as close to surgery time as possible (but skipping feedings.)  The best vet can help you navigate and has a phenomenal bedside manner for humans as well as pets, imho.  Don't be afraid to ask to change things up for your sake or sanity as well as Fred's.

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