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Chemo treatment and raw food diet
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26 April 2011 - 10:25 am
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My dog went for his first Chemo treatment and I was told to take him off the raw diet he was on.

I have been feeding Raw diet for 11 years.

Any advise on a non-raw diet and what diet might be good for him while on Chemo treatment?

They indicated they did not want him exposed to raw food bacteria while his imune system was low.

The Rainbow Bridge

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26 April 2011 - 10:47 am
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Hi there, thanks for joining us! I hope you don't mind but I moved your post here to "Eating Healthy," since we're talking about food.

Most oncos don't advise a raw diet during chemotherapy for those exact reasons (but most of them also don't have a background in nutrition either). However we have been told by oncos that it's fine to continue feeding raw after chemo if that's what the client wants. Ultimately it's up to how comfortable you are with the raw diet, and how comfortable you are when it comes to accepting or disregarding their advice. While you're paying them for the treatments, the final decision lies with you.

The good news is that there are lots of commercially prepared foods that mimic a raw diet. Our Nutrition Blog has lots of information, such as:

Maggie's Guide to Fighting Cancer

Wysong Coupon Code for Best Dog Food Savings

How Do You Feed Raw Away from Home

Free Honest Kitchen Dog Food Samples for Readers

MaxiMutt's Healthy Homemade Cancer Dog Diet

Maggie Shares Agile Cow Dog Nutrition Plan

Best Grain Free Dog Foods List

Hope this helps! Thanks for joining us, we look forward to hearing more about your pup.

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littlemanjake
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26 April 2011 - 11:24 am
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You can find some comprehensive data related to raw diets & pathogens in the June 2010 newsletter at http://www.b-naturals.com and the July 2010 issue of Whole Dog Journal. Most instances of pathogen related dog food contamination has actually been in kibble.

If you feed commercial raw, Stella & Chewy's batch tests all of their products.

Dehydrated raw is no different than fresh, as far as pathogen risk. 

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26 April 2011 - 1:08 pm
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Awsome guys.

I am finding this site a bit hard to navigate through.  Took me some time to find where I posted until I saw the search button.

I was going to try putting him on kibble through most of the Chemos.  He will go through about 9 treatments (1 every 3 weeks)

He is an 11 year old german shorthaired pointer, diagnosted with osteo in his RF leg.  We amputated the leg. 

We discussed the dehydrated raw diets and they did not know, so it is good to know that the pathogen risk would be the same.

I was looking at California Natural grain free Lamb since I can get my hands on a bag this week.  He got his first treatment last wednesday 4/20 and they told me his imune system would start dropping in a week and I wanted to at least transition him to the new diet.

I am thinking: would a 50% diet be just as good?  morning meal the kibble diet and the evening meal a commercial raw diet (I have been feeding BRAVO)

Kris and Polo

littlemanjake
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26 April 2011 - 1:21 pm
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I don't want to tell you what to do, but why don't you read the research about pathogens & kibble before deciding?

If your dog has been on a raw diet for so long, you should probably consider what effect the change will have on his digestive system, at a time it is already likely to be compromised.

Grain free kibble is not the same as raw & has a significant carbohydrate load…another consideration with cancer.

If you truly are worried about pathogens, feeding raw 50% of the time really wouldn't alter the risk. 

I am obviously a raw feeder & biased, but the next thing I would look at would be home cooked, (it can be time consuming). The b-naturals site has excellent home cooking instructions.

Do you have an option other than Bravo?

Here and Now

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26 April 2011 - 2:43 pm
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stilpoint said:

Took me some time to find where I posted until I saw the search button.

You can always find all the topics you've started and replies you'e posted by viewing the links at the bottom of your forums profile. The profile button is at the top right of every Forum page, and your profile includes links to all your posts and topics.

The Subscribe and Watch buttons at the bottom of every topic are also very helpful for following discussions. Click Subscribe to receive email notification for replies to topics, and click Watch to have them appear in your Watching list (see button at top).

There is also Tech Support topic with more tips for finding favorite topics. Hope this helps!

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Montgomery, NY
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26 April 2011 - 7:35 pm
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Hi,

Sorry you had to join here, but... it's a great community with great members and lots of great information.

I've never done raw and my vets were concerned when I mentioned starting Champ on it. So, I compromised and started using Honest Kitchen which is a dehydrated food. I use Preference mainly for his food allergies (I can use any protein so we use Whiting fish), but a great feature is I can really adjust the carb/protein ratio by decreasing the Preference and adding more protein. I supplement with vitamins that are high in Iron as well. Chemo can make them anemic. Champ was always borderline so I added these vitamins and his blood work has been good since.

Preference is also gluten free and grain free with some organic ingredients. If you want to cook some too, you can add broccoli, celery etc...

Best of luck.

Joy & Champ (and the 4-legged Lady)

Chicago, IL
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26 April 2011 - 8:44 pm
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I just finished reading Dr. Dressler's free download on diet, and he does a very good job explaining the risks with raw, very specific.  He said bacteria does not penetrate through beef.  With beef, you are only worried about surface contamination so as long as you cook the outer 1/8", the inside can be raw and it is still safe.  But please read it yourself, it's at http://download...../#more-474

Not sure if your boy does beef but you might be able to work something out with this.  BTW, what's his name?

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littlemanjake
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26 April 2011 - 9:52 pm
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I did not read the reference, but that only makes sense if you are feeding an intact piece of boneless beef, which is not an option for long term feeding. The protein source should be rotated and bone, as well as organ meat included. Cooking any portion of it, defeats the purpose of raw feeding. You should never feed cooked bone, a vital component of a raw diet. You should never cook (or even thaw in a microwave) any commercially prepared raw food. It contains ground bones.

Honest Kitchen is a non heat processed, dehydrated raw food. Some formulas have a high carb content. Some are designed to be combined with raw protein. It's a quality product, just no different than raw for the purpose of this discussion.

Particularly because of the hype surrounding pathogen risk ( not necessarily based on science or fact) most commercial raw food producers routinely test their products. Stella & Chewy's as an example, batch tests. You do need to be more careful of your source if you are not feeding commercial, but that's true chemotherapy or not. Again, check the recall data on the incidence of salmonella and kibble.

Traditional vets often are very anti-raw feeding in general. This can be for a variety of reasons. They receive little nutritional training, outside the mainstream, some can ve very influenced by the pet food industry. Do you have access to an Alternative or Integrative vet you can consult?

Make whatever decision you are comfortable with. Just be sure it's based on fact, not fear or lack of information. As Jerry said, it may come down to your comfort level, disregarding the oncologist's advice.

The Rainbow Bridge

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26 April 2011 - 9:59 pm
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tatespeeps said:

I just finished reading Dr. Dressler's free download on diet, and he does a very good job explaining the risks with raw, very specific.

Pawesome idea! I forgot to mention this one, thank you.

Littlemanjake, regarding raw dehydrated foods, this is what Honest Kitchen says about their raw meats and fish ingredients:

Meats and Fish

Our fresh raw meats and white fish undergo gentle steaming at 140°F to 165°F, to eliminate pathogens without irradiation. We then carefully evaporate the moisture using dehydration, which leaves more nutrients intact than harsh cooking, canning or extrusion. The meats leave the dehydration process at about 125°F. The entire process (including steaming) takes about 45 minutes. Our salmon is freeze-dried in a flash process that removes the moisture under vacuum.

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littlemanjake
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26 April 2011 - 10:18 pm
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I apologize, for saying it is a non heat process. Traditionally, the only way to truly eliminate pathogens with steam is at higher temperatures & a vacuum process. 

Honest kitchen is a quality product, with excellent controls, but the pathogen risk is likely equal to any commercial raw food and probably less than many kibbles. 

Here and Now

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26 April 2011 - 10:29 pm
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Honest Kitchen is a non heat processed, dehydrated raw food.

FYI: In our recent Dog Food Advisor Tripawd Talk Radio Interview, Dr. Sagman discusses how freeze dried is better than heat dried when it comes to dehydrating fresh/raw dog foods.

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27 April 2011 - 5:48 am
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You guys are awsome.  Excuse the enthusiasm - this is the first forum I have joined on-line and I am in tears over the fact I can discuss this with people!  I do not have alot of internet time, working on getting it up and running at home.

Littlemanjake - seems you and I think closely in line.  I have been a raw food feeder for 11 years, and am an advocate of that method and am biased too.

I will look at the links you all are providing today.  I have had up to 7 dogs so I get my raw produces from a wholesaler who deals with BRAVO, since I have not had any problems or issues to deal with I really have not had the time to research other products or what might be in my area.  Your guys are giving me the links that help same time doing the internet research thing - helping alot.  I get IOS (internet overwelming syndrom)  just so much to look at.

I started with the Billinghurst books 12 years ago.  I do not have much time to put into a home cooked diet (I don't cook for myself) and again I agree that isn't a raw diet so I never was an advocate of that feeding method.

The oncolg I saw with my dog - I did not get the impression she was against raw and she was very open to discussions and actually said she would research feeding the dried diets and she did not know if they posessed the same risk that she was worried about in regards to raw.  So I got the impression she was more up to date on nutrition.  Only thing I was not impressed about was that she didn't remember to bring the topic up until the day he received his first chemo treatment.  Didn't give me time to research or transition him if I needed to.

Thank you guys so much, I'll start on the links today but if you have more links to research it does same me time finding them.

I just joined this web site and really have not introduced myself.  But my dog's name is Polo, is an 11 year old german shorthaired pointer.  He is a breed champion and has earned 26 performance titles in AKC.  I also own English Foxhounds and 1 border collie.  I train in obedience, agility, and I am a conformation breed handler, I am interested in becoming more involved in canine rehabilitation and sports therapy.  (now more interested in learning more about improving my knowledge on how we are feeding our dogs)

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27 April 2011 - 9:22 am
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Any of you researched or fed - GreatLife Grain & Potatoe Free?

Here and Now

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27 April 2011 - 10:38 am
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stilpoint said:

I get IOS (internet overwelming syndrom) ...

big-grin Maybe a little related comic relief can help:

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Haven't heard of GreatLife. Please feel free to share links to anything you find out about that.

"Dogs are born with three legs and a spare."
— Jerry G. Dawg (10/98-10/08)
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