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When do you know that it's time to say goodbye?
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New Hampshire
Member Since:
24 June 2015
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29 September 2015 - 11:46 am
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Hi all... Please help

I am away on vacation for another 9 days... I left Jersey home with my mom.  This vacation was planned and pre-paid since february...(MONTHS before Jersey was  sick, diagnosed and underwent amputation)

Mom called me to tell me that he's back to not eating again... and she called me from the vet.  I was able to talk to the vet who said ... Jersey has lost 6lbs since his last weigh-in (maybe 6+ weeks ago?) although he has been giving me a lot of trouble with eating for the past 6 weeks. The vet said that it's possible that the Rimadyl is bothering his stomach... and perhaps that's why he's not eating. (He is on a very low dose of rimadyl)  He suggested this approach in sequential order:

1.)  Discontinue Rimadyl, gave him an anti-nausea drug and a stomach coating drug... wait a few days and see if his eating improves.

2.)  Do blood work and chest x-rays to see if the cancer has progressed... If the cancer has progressed there is nothing that can be done except asses his quality of life and make a decision.

I talked to my mom and asked her... "Do you think he's suffering"?  She said no... he's drinking water, asking to go outside, hopping around outside, demanding attention (pets/rubs).  Before I left town (5 days ago) i played with him, with squeaky toy and he was engaged... he was also whining about something and I gave him a bully stick and he chewed.

As far as i've always done (yes, i've had to make the decision to euthanize 3 pets previously) i've made decisions based on assessing quality of life... In brief... my thoughts are if you see a constellation of the following symptoms.

1. Uncontrollable pain
2. Inability to control bowels
3. Disinterest in going outside
4. Not eating
5. Not drinking
6. General disinterest in things you know they enjoy (toys, snuggles, treats).
To date... he shows none of these symptoms consistently... except disinterest in food/treats.

Anyways...

I mentioned this to my friend who basically told me that' i've worked so hard to keep my dog alive that I would never admit that my dog is suffering...'  Or in other words... that I'm selfish and would let my dog suffer because I refuse to see reality.

Soooo... basically, I wanted to ask some 'friends', who've been through this... how they've made the decision... when they got to the end?

Thanks!

- KIM

Los Angeles, CA
Member Since:
13 June 2013
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29 September 2015 - 12:03 pm
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WOW... on your friend's words ... just wow.

Well it sounds like you are in touch with the vet and getting some good advice on that front. Also, since you have been through this before, you do know what to look for as that would be what I would point to as well.

And since you have been in this position with other pets, you know that this is a very personal decision. I know how hard this must be since you aren't there and can't look into Jersey's eyes for a sign. And those signs aren't always easy to read.

For me - it was definitely made crystal clear - Shelby was fine until she was not. She always managed food - even with the chemo - albeit not as much or the same kinds.

But Shelby's end came when she suffered from seizures and we knew that the cancer was probably in her brain (we didn't do a scan but I knew). But for others... it is harder to see. 

I know that Jersey will send you the strength and the signs that will hopefully make this easier for you and give you some guidance. I know that doesn't really answer your question but I want you to know that whatever decision you make is the RIGHT decision and the decision made with all the LOVE in the world. Going through this journey with a tripawd forms a stronger bond and there are no "wrong" decisions.

Sending you love, hugs and support ... I know how hard this is. I really do! 

Alison with Spirit Shelby fur-ever in her heart 

Shelby Lynne; Jack Russell/Shiba Inu mix. Proud member of the April Angels of 2014.

October 15, 2000 to April 8, 2014

Our story: Broke rear leg in June 2013 - non-conclusive results for cancer so leg was plated and pinned. Enlarged spleen in September 2013 and had it removed and was diagnosed with Hemangiosarcoma and started chemotherapy. Became a Tripawd January 8th, 2014 and definitive Hemangiosarcoma diagnosis. Three major surgeries in 7 months and Shelby took them all like a champ only to lose her battle to cancer in her brain. We had 8 amazing extra months together and no regrets. #shelbystrong #loveofmylife

Maryland
Member Since:
28 March 2015
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29 September 2015 - 12:44 pm
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I think you sound well-grounded in how you make the decision. For us, it was your item #1. We knew Ellie was in extreme distress. We knew it. As much as we would have wanted to believe otherwise and pretend she wasn't, we could not. We would not. We knew it deep down inside. There was no questioning, no doubts. 

If I were to guess, I imagine your friend was perhaps never comfortable w/ the idea of amputation. That they come from the same place most of us start at---that amputation is cruel, that your dog suffers if you amputate their leg, that they can't enjoy life anymore. Most of us here know that none of that is true, but I have a tiny bit of sympathy for those who don't know better (but only a tiny bit...).

We had a similar situation, with a well-meaning but clueless friend. The comments were always along the lines of 'you've been through so much' or 'you've tried so hard'. I know they were meant as sympathy but they always set my teeth on edge. I always heard an unspoken disapproval of what we had done for Ellie. And I have to admit to feeling a bit more coldness towards this person now. 

Denise, Bill and Angel Ellie. 

Active 10+ Pyr mix suddenly came up lame with ACL tear in left rear leg. Scheduled for a TPLO but final pre-op x-rays indicated a small suspicious area, possibly OSA, which could have caused the ACL tear. Surgeon opened the knee for TPLO but found soft bone. Biopsy came back positive for OSA. Became a Tripawd 9/18/14. Carbo6 with Cerenia and Fluids. Pain free and living in the moment. Crossed the Bridge on 7/12/15 after probable spread of cancer to her cervical spine. A whole lifetime of memories squeezed into 10 months. Here's her story: Eloise

New Hampshire
Member Since:
24 June 2015
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29 September 2015 - 1:00 pm
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the person is someone that i'm actually travelling with .... which makes it harder.

I'm obviously, extremely emotional and distraught ... trying NOT to buy a plane ticket home....

Anyways, she came back up to the room saw that I was upset and gave me a non-appology, apology (i'm sorry that I hurt your feelings).

I think I am going to need to go for a walk.... my head hurts. I am soo hurt... 

anyways, thanks for your responses.. and thanks for listening... I need to work on calming down....

On The Road


Member Since:
24 September 2009
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29 September 2015 - 1:00 pm
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jerseyboy said
I wanted to ask some 'friends', who've been through this... how they've made the decision... when they got to the end?

We know how difficult this is, but hopefully these posts may help.

The first is a two part series detailing how we knew when to say goodbye to Jerry. There are hundreds of comments from others on these two posts with people providing their own feedback and tips.

Saying Goodbye: How We Knew (part 1)

Saying Goodbye: How We Knew (part 2)

 

The second includes some helpful tips for measuring Quality of Life.

Penny Jars Measure a Dog’s Quality of Life

 

Search all blogs here and you will find various other posts and podcasts about hospice care, end of life decisions and coping with anticipatory grief.

Best wishes with the difficult decisions you face. Please keep us posted.

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

Maryland
Member Since:
28 March 2015
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29 September 2015 - 1:31 pm
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It doesn't sound like a 'buy a ticket home' sort of situation. It sounds like a clueless friend situation. 

Do you trust your vet to tell you straight up how Jersey is doing? Do you trust your Mom? If yes to both, then hold on to that. 

And no blame from me for taking the trip. We had bought tickets to a concert in London (any EC fans here?) months before Ellie's diagnosis and amputation. Of course we wouldn't go if she weren't doing well. But she was, and it was another couple of months before the time came to say goodbye. 

Denise, Bill and Angel Ellie.

Active 10+ Pyr mix suddenly came up lame with ACL tear in left rear leg. Scheduled for a TPLO but final pre-op x-rays indicated a small suspicious area, possibly OSA, which could have caused the ACL tear. Surgeon opened the knee for TPLO but found soft bone. Biopsy came back positive for OSA. Became a Tripawd 9/18/14. Carbo6 with Cerenia and Fluids. Pain free and living in the moment. Crossed the Bridge on 7/12/15 after probable spread of cancer to her cervical spine. A whole lifetime of memories squeezed into 10 months. Here's her story: Eloise

Member Since:
20 September 2015
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29 September 2015 - 1:35 pm
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I cannot claim to have any personal experience with what you are facing but can certainly feel your anguish.  Our 6 yr old Rottie girl Amira is exactly 1 week post amputation today after being diagnosed with high grade Synovial Histiocystic Sarcoma on 9/18.  She's had a very difficult recovery up until yesterday so we have certainly felt the pain and helplessness watching our baby suffering and not being able to help...We know that there will come a time when we will be faced with 'doing the right thing' for Amira but pray that it won't be for many years yet!  I like to think that we know our baby better than anyone and she will tell us so that we will "just know" when it's time to return her to God who loaned her to us.  just the mere thought of that day though, has me in tears now so I can only imagine how hard this is for you...You are approaching this with Jersey's best interests coming first and in consultation with his vet so keep assessing the situation day by day and "try" to enjoy the remainder of you vacation as it doesn't sound like an immediate decision is needed. 

Virginia







Member Since:
22 February 2013
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29 September 2015 - 3:23 pm
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Oh gosh...ditto Alison and Denise...ditto...ditto! As well meaning as your friend was, it is so very clear she was waaaay out of line! Based on what you've said and based on the input of your vet, Jersey is certainly not thinking about a "departure" anytime soon! Your vet is very much on top of things and has come up with a couple of good strategies.

Enjoying tummy rubs, drinking water, asking to go outside, hopping around outside, not showing any real signs of pain or "suffering", seemingly a good overall attitude...Jersey js doing pretty darn good!

One thing you can ask your vet about is a good dose of IV fluids. Even though he may not be dehydrated, that can spark his appetite a bit. There's also a vitamin gel or paste you can get at vitamin stores...darn...I can't think of the name and we just had a post on it too! But dogs seem to like it. You just smear it in their mouths sort of and they lap it up. And maybe a dose of Prednisone (steroids)for about a week coukd stimulate his appetite. They usually work lretty well in that department. He jas to jave the Rimadyl out of his system though for about five days...again, I'm no vet.

And the weight loss...I'd say that has a " margin of error" of a couple of lbs. Vet scales just don't seem to be accurate in a consistent basis.

I'm no vet. I can only say based in what you've said Jersey still has a whole lot of good quality and is still loving life! Even IF...IF...he jas to jave other tests and something shows up, it sounds like he is still symptom free ofany "suffering".

Now, as far as your friend, I would leave any conversation about Jersey off the table. You can just let her know the vet and your mom all agree he is enjoying his sassy self and they have a couple of solutions in place to help his appetite. And YES, Rimadyl can certainly upset a dog's tummy sometimes!

Glad you connected with us! We certainly understand far better than those who've never been on this journey!

Update after your walk and let us know how you're doing!

Se ding lots of hugs!

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle too!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

Schofield, WI
Member Since:
13 August 2015
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29 September 2015 - 3:33 pm
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Please rely on your Mom and your vet to assess the entire situation.  It truly sounds like they have a handle on this.  He's still being dog at it's finest!  Your friend is wrong.  You didn't do this journey because you were selfish.  You did this journey to get Jerseyboy out of pain. You did this journey to make however much time Jerseyboy has be quality time.  You did it for Jerseyboy not to him.  He's drinking, running around, and enjoying mom's company.  Sounds like that's still quality time to me.  You know Jerseyboy better than anyone else.  Trust yourself and him.  He will let you know if and when it's time.  Maybe stopping the Rimadyl will be just the ticket.  A lot of dogs do have reactions to those drugs.  Try to not worry.  We will all send healing thoughts to your baby and maybe by tomorrow he'll be back to eating for mom.  Hugs!  One more thing.  Just a thought but you might want to stick with your friends that are supportive and cut out the ones that aren't.  Just sayin'

Michigan
Member Since:
2 April 2013
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29 September 2015 - 3:54 pm
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One thing I know about all of our dogs is that whenever we go on vacation, they never eat the way they normally eat for us when we're at home.  So it just may be as simple as that - you're not home, so Jersey's not eating.  Murphy plays games with us a lot since his surgery ... he knows we will do just about anything to make sure he eats.  My husband will lay down on the floor with him and beg him to eat.  Really?  ugh!  lol  And then some days Murphy just gets up & walks away.  And I'll catch him eating Cassie & Max's food (we free-feed them, so there's always food in their dish, but since Murphy is on grain-free food we feed him separately).  What a stinker he can be!  Last week I bought gravy to put over his food and that seems to be enticing him to eat more, at least for now. 

So maybe he's just moping because you're gone.  I agree, let your mom judge as far as if Jersey doesn't seem to be suffering, then she should be able to wait for you to return and then you can assess for yourself.

We lost one baby, Taz, while we were on vacation and it was so hard.  I still feel guilty and that was 10 years ago.  We board our dogs with our groomer, so him & Cassie were both there.  Taz had just turned 11 and about 2 months earlier had had a lipoma removed.  He had a few of them, but was healthy (other than high lipids which he was on fat-free food for).  He was happy and able to keep up with Cassie who was not quite a year old yet.  A couple days before the end of our vacation, our groomer called and said that Taz was just laying around, not interacting with the other dogs and she was concerned.  She took him in to our vet who did blood work, x-rays and gave him pain medication.  We left for home because I just couldn't handle the thought of something being wrong with my baby.  It was a long drive, and in the morning, less than an hour from home, she called us to say that he had passed.  My heart broke that I wasn't there for him.

Donna

Donna, Glenn & Murphy 

Murphy had his right front leg amputated due to histiocytic sarcoma at 7 years old. He survived 4 years, 2 months & 1 week, only to be taken by hemangiosarcoma at 11 1/2 years 6/12/17  
Read about Murphy's Life on Three Legs

Donna.png

Virginia







Member Since:
22 February 2013
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29 September 2015 - 4:06 pm
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Donna..I'm se ding you a cyber hug. I had something similar with my beloved Buckwheat...with the help of friends and the airline, I was able to fly back asap...and got there about an hour too late. I KNOW the heartache of not being there. I do hope you can take some small comfort in knowing Cassie was there.

And on a "lighter" note, I love the "games" Murphy plays when it comes to eating! Tripawds learn very quickly how to take being spoiled to a whole 'nother level!!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!





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16 October 2012
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29 September 2015 - 7:11 pm
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I agree with everyone here.  I know for a fact some Rotties have a sensitivity to Rimadyl.  Some of my friends won't even give it to their dogs.  Sassy never really had a problem but I watched her really closely.  I think your plan of action is a good one.  Trust your mom & vet.  Your mom wouldn't lie to you about how he is

Now your so called friend leaves a little to be desired.  Just try to ride that situation out the best you can

 

xoxoxo

Michelle & Angel Sassy

sassymichelle-sm.jpg

Sassy is a proud member of the Winter Warriors. Live long, & strong Winter Warriors.
sassysugarbear.tripawds.com
07/26/2006 - Sassy earned her wings 08/20/2013

05/04/2006 -  Bosch, Sassy's pal, earned his wings 03/29/19  fought cancer for 4 months.

"You aren't doing it TO her, you are doing it FOR her. Give her a chance at life."

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29 September 2015 - 9:10 pm
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Kim

I agree with everyone here. Being away from Jerseyboy is tough and you friend is not making things any better.  Stay strong maybe your mom can help u face time with Jersey and if he hears your voice it will perk him up and you can get some assurance by seeing him.   On the food front, about 10 days ago I really hit a low point with Anjing, I could not get him to eat and I knew he was loosing weight.  I was frustrated and at wits end with the food / feeding thing.  I talked to the guy who runs our local pet store and he recommended some freeze dried raw food to feed him by itself just to get him going and then add pieces to his regular food to get him eating again.  I almost cried when he started eating out of my hand and ate 5 rehydrated patties on the first go around.  Someone on here also mentioned a non metallic bowl a glass one I found at pet smart did the trick.  Pepcid AC 30 minutes before mealtime has been helpful as well.  Tomorrow is a chemo day so our whole cycle will start again...

I have asked myself if I am being selfish, I discussed this with my vet and we both agree the answer is no.  It is a question I am sure most of us have thought about. Their will be ups and downs but you know Jersey best and he will let you know.  Big hugs to you, your mom, and of course Jerseyboy.  

I havent posted much but have read and learned so many things from all of the people on this forum.  What a great group of people.

Green Bay, WI


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3 October 2015 - 9:39 am
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Oh Kim! So sorry, I'm just reading this now! You must be frantic, but the others have all made such good points. I agree with all of it, from the Rimadyl, to him maybe just missing his mom, to your less than sensitive friend. My dogs would never eat when we weren't home, no matter who was staying with them. Is there an alternative to the Rimady, in case that is the problem? I think there are many avenues out there to explore before jumping to the worst conclusion....which I must say I often do, so I understand why you may be too. Since I'm a little behind on this news, I hope things are still ok. Praying for you both right now! 

Paula and nitro

Nitro 11 1/2  yr old Doberman; right front amp June 2014. Had 6 doses carboplatin, followed by metronomic therapy. Rocked it on 3 legs for over 3 years! My Warrior beat cancer, but couldn't beat old age. He crossed the Bridge peacefully on July 25, 2017, with dignity and on his terms.  Follow his blog entitled "Doberman's journey"

http://nitro.tripawds.com

"Be good, mama loves you".....run free my beautiful Warrior

Norene, TN
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21 October 2014
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6 October 2015 - 3:08 pm
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Hi Kim!

I'm a little late, but I too would like to add a few things to all the wonderful responses you've gotten so far. First off, your insensitive friend is probably angry because you're on vacation with her/him and having to take a back seat to your emotions regarding Jersey. Some people really have no clue. I'm not sure how you can address this with them, but knowing will help you deal if the subject of Jersey comes up again in a "negative" manner. Just shut them down.

Secondly, it would be great if we absolutely knew when it is time to say goodbye. It's difficult to relay, but in your heart you will know. Even with healthy pups, there will be ups and downs. Rely on what your vet says. Take cues from him/her and your mom.

{{hugs}}

pam

Harmony became a Tripawd on 10/21/14 (MCT). She left us way too soon on 11/1/14.

"We miss you so much; our love, our heart, our Harmony."

- Pam, Ron and Melody, Meesha, Doublestuff and Mariah Carey

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