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On Medication for Shilo, help please...
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Oregon
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19 November 2009 - 7:51 pm
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Ok so we went to the vet this morning because Shilo had been grunting and panting pretty good all night. Last ditch effort Prednisone. Now what I need to know if the meds she is on will do any immediate harm. I understand there are some long term effects but, I really don't think I need to worry about those now. I would like an opinion on the meds she is on and what times of day would be best. Right now we are doing –

Metoclopramide 10 mg – 7am – 3pm – 11pm

Prilosec OTC – 7am

Tramadol (she doesn't handle this one well so right now) 8am- 50mg & 8pm 100mg (they said we could do 100mg 3times a day if needed)

Prednisone – 15 mg – 8am – 8pm (they have her weening down over time)

Rimadyl 75mg – 5am & 5pm

Megestrol Acetate – She just finished a round of 7 days on Tuesday night. She will continue to get it every 3rd day. So she will get another does tomorrow night.

PRN –

Ondansetron 4mg – 2-3 times daily

The vet was a little concerned with doing both Prednisone & Rimadyl but said that the measures we are using is to buy a little time and make her more comfortable. Can someone tell me what they think??

Thank you!!!

Shilo diagnosed with osteosarcoma 9/4/2009, amputation 9/9/2009. ShiloAnne lost her battle 11/23/2009 where she regained her fourth leg and is patiently waiting for her parents to join her. We will always love you baby girl.

Winnipeg
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19 November 2009 - 7:56 pm
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Hi Shilo

I am not qualified to answer your question (as you already know). But just today I did ask my vet if we might add Prednisone. She said that you cannot use NSAID (like metacam or rimadyl) at the same time as Pred. She was adamant about that, although I did not ask for an explanation. I expect Pam will fill us in on whether the time frame matters and why.

What problem does Shilo have with tramadol?

Oregon
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19 November 2009 - 8:04 pm
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I know that Shi's vet said that using Rimadyl and Predisone at the same time can cause an ulcer. She said she was a little more apt to use it now since we are towards the end of our run with her... I just don't want to loose her from an ulcer(that would be crazy!)

In regards to the Tramadol she goes off food... She seemed to hold it down this morning ok when I gave it to her about an hour after eating, but yesterday she got sick with an hour of giving it to her.

Maybe I should stop the Rimadyl while doing the Predisone... I don't know... I just don't want to make things worse.

Shilo diagnosed with osteosarcoma 9/4/2009, amputation 9/9/2009. ShiloAnne lost her battle 11/23/2009 where she regained her fourth leg and is patiently waiting for her parents to join her. We will always love you baby girl.

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19 November 2009 - 8:14 pm
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I would be very careful using both Rimadyl and prednisone together, especially at those doses.  The main risk is GI ulceration and that can happen quickly.  I imagine that is why she is on both Prilosec and ondansetron.  These drugs help with nausea and acid production but neither will prevent an ulcer.  The best drug for that is called misoprostol (Cytotec) and the generic is about 50 cents per pill.  Shilo would need 100 mcg twice daily.  I am not sure why she is on the hormone (megesterol) but the side effects there should be minimal short-term. The metoclopramide seems redundant since she is also on the odansetron (both are for nausea/vomiting).

Panting could be due to the prednisone but grunting does imply pain.  I would up the Tramadol if needed I agree that it is safe to go as high as 3-4 tabs 3 times daily.

It is so hard to judge pain levels in our dogs, especially in a stoic breed like the Rottie.  Dogs tend to internalize their pain and try to hide it from us.  This was the hardest thing for me to deal with when it was time to let Tazzie go because you don't want to give up too early but you also don't want them to have any unnecessary discomfort.  My decision was made easier by the fact that Tazzie could not walk and we physically could not lift her without causing pain.  I hope that Shilo can rally again and have some more good days.

Pam

Winnipeg
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19 November 2009 - 8:16 pm
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It sounds as though your vet is weighing the pros and cons of the two drugs. Maybe "our local tripawd vet" will weigh in on this. I had no idea what issues the two drugs had.

Pred can work miracles, at least for a short time. At least it did with my previous dog (but he had no cancer related troubles).

Losing appetite. Ha. I might lose a finger when Tazzie eats, but he is unlikely to lose his appetite.

good night, we'll check in on young Shilo tomorrow,

Tazzie Two

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19 November 2009 - 8:21 pm
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I know that before we knew it was close to the end of Emily's life that my vet said not to give the Rimadyl with the Prednisone.  Pam, of course, and your vet know what they are doing.  As sad as it is to say, your vet may be weighing long term usage against providing Shilo the best possible comfort.  Forgive me if that is blunt.  I don't mean to be insensitive.

Debra

Debra & Emily, a five year old doberman mix, who was diagnosed with an osteosaecoma. She had a right rear leg amputation on May 19, 2009. On November 10, 2009 she earned her wings and regained her fourth leg.

Oregon
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19 November 2009 - 8:25 pm
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Well I gave her both 1 dose pred and rimadyl this morning. Maybe I will skip the pred tonight and just give the higher dose of Tramadol.

So the reason they put her on Rimadyl was for inflamation and fever. Pred doesn't do anything for fever but does help with inflamation… What would be the consequence of stopping the rimadyl tomorrow and going to predisone?? Oh the reason for the Megestrol is that she has tumors in her abdomin which was keeping her from having anything to do with food. She now eats since she has been on this, but we seemed to have moved from ab to lungs....

Shilo diagnosed with osteosarcoma 9/4/2009, amputation 9/9/2009. ShiloAnne lost her battle 11/23/2009 where she regained her fourth leg and is patiently waiting for her parents to join her. We will always love you baby girl.

Oregon
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19 November 2009 - 8:32 pm
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Debra -

No apologies, we were contemplating loosing her today. So we know it is time that we are talking about... Days, if that... I just don't want to be the cause of more pain (ie ulcer)... I want to control her pain without causing new pain. That just seems to be defeating the purpose.

No need to apologize, it is what it is...

Shilo diagnosed with osteosarcoma 9/4/2009, amputation 9/9/2009. ShiloAnne lost her battle 11/23/2009 where she regained her fourth leg and is patiently waiting for her parents to join her. We will always love you baby girl.

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19 November 2009 - 9:51 pm
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As I made it through the first few postings, I knew that I could not add technically but had decided to voice some support.  I will not say the exact words that were uttered from my mouth when I made it to the end because I do not like to use that kind of language.  It's just . . . Everyone here does feel your pain and wishes that they had some "magic" pill to help Shilo and "magic" words to help you.  Please stay stong with the knowledge that you have and are continuing to do everything possible.  Please stay strong with the knowledge that your love has pulled Shilo through this far.  Please stay strong with the knowledge that your bonds will never break and will live eternally.

All our prayers,

Bob & Cherry

The Rainbow Bridge

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19 November 2009 - 10:00 pm
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When I was taking Pred I had to stop taking Metacam, that was my oncologist's recommendation.

We are so sorry that you and Shilo are going through this, and hope that you can find a good balance of meds that will help keep her as comfortable and pain-free as possible. Please know we are thinking of you both. Much love going out to you....

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Harrisonburg, Va
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20 November 2009 - 12:02 am
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I don't really have any medical advice to add except to say that if I had to choose Rimadyl or Prednisone, I'd choose the pred, especially if you think Shilo's time may be soon.  🙁  Stay strong....I'll be thinking about you both. 

Wesley Chapel, FL
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20 November 2009 - 5:41 am
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Oh sweetie,

My heart goes out to you... Sad  I know that you want to do everything you can to make sure that Shilo isn't suffering... It is so hard, because they can't really tell us exactly what they're feeling. Rely on your vet's recommendations about the meds... and just love and spoil Shilo for as long as you can.

Sending you and Shilo a big loving hug!!!

Angel Jake's Mom

Jake, 10yr old golden retriever (fractured his front right leg on 9/1, bone biopsy revealed osteosarcoma on 9/10, amputation on 9/17) and his family Marguerite, Jacques and Wolfie, 5yr old german shepherd and the newest addition to the family, Nala, a 7mth old Bengal mix kittie. Jake lost his battle on 11/9/2009, almost 8 weeks after his surgery. We will never forget our sweet golden angel… http://jakesjou.....ipawds.com ….. CANCER SUCKS!

My heart lives at Rainbow Bridge
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20 November 2009 - 5:59 am
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That is quite the pharmacy Shilo has going there!  I know this must be hard for you, sending extra strength your way.

Shanna & Spirit Trouble ~ Trouble gained her wings 3/16/2011, a 27 1/2 month cancer survivor, tail wagging. RIP sweetheart, you are my heart and soul.  Run free at Rainbow Bridge.
The November Five - Spirits Max, Cherry, Tika, Trouble & Nova. 11/2008 - 3/2013 An era ends as Queen Nova crossed the Bridge.

Winnipeg
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20 November 2009 - 8:50 am
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Hi Shilo

Glad to see Pam gave some informed info on the topic of drugs. (In case there was ambiguity, I posted my reference to her, our local vet, before her post arrived into view although her post showed up before mine.) As you say, symptoms of cancer are bad enough, we do not want to compound the problems (sort of a bad pun - not up to jackers standards, that's for sure).

From what people have said, I'd be inclined to query your vet, saying you aren't comfortable, or sure about, using Rimadyl and Pred at the same time, or to hold off on one if you feel you can take that into your own hands.

We hope you have some good days ahead!

Oregon
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20 November 2009 - 8:11 pm
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Thank you all for your support, prayers, and knowledge. I actually talked with Shilo's sister's mom and there is kinda a joke about rots that we were told to put up a penny bank for when you would have to have rocks removed from their belly. They apparently are rockweillers not rottweillers laugh. Well her 2 sisters do the rock thing, Shilo never did.. I think now I would take the rock thing over the "c" thing but anyway. She said that Shadow(Shilo's sister) grunts and pants when she is in pain from the rocks and described exactally what Shilo was doing.

So long story short, I didn't give the pred last night but gaver her 2 tramadol at 9pm. She slept well through the night... No panting or grunting.. Yes!! She doesn't seem to have the trouble during the day so I back off to 1 so she can enjoy life and not be drugged up completely. She came running to the door when I got hom all waggin' must have been that sleep she got. So we will have a few more good day, thank goodness. I know it is not a magic pill, but we are lucky enough to have a little more time..

PS Debra I got the kit do to her paw print tonight. Thanks again for the idea. smiley

Shilo diagnosed with osteosarcoma 9/4/2009, amputation 9/9/2009. ShiloAnne lost her battle 11/23/2009 where she regained her fourth leg and is patiently waiting for her parents to join her. We will always love you baby girl.

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