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If no chemo planned... what other supplements should we give?
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Wesley Chapel, FL
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13 September 2009
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6 October 2009 - 4:44 pm
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Pam and Tazzie,

Can the artemisinin be given if we're not doing chemo, or is it just in addition to chemo? There is no way that we can afford any chemo or radiation for Jake... Just barely were able to pay for the biopsy and amputation surgery and meds... and we are so broke and behind in everything else now.

But I want to do whatever else I can to keep that horrible cancer at bay... I've read that artemisinin has antiangiogenic properties. Is that correct? Jake is now 80 pounds so what dosages and dosing schedules should he take? Any other supplements I should add?

Jake's Mom

Jake, 10yr old golden retriever (fractured his front right leg on 9/1, bone biopsy revealed osteosarcoma on 9/10, amputation on 9/17) and his family Marguerite, Jacques and Wolfie, 5yr old german shepherd and the newest addition to the family, Nala, a 7mth old Bengal mix kittie. Jake lost his battle on 11/9/2009, almost 8 weeks after his surgery. We will never forget our sweet golden angel… http://jakesjou.....ipawds.com ….. CANCER SUCKS!

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6 October 2009 - 7:33 pm
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Dear Jake and Mom: We saw your post and couldn't help but jump in. I'm not a vet, but hopefully some of our info might help you out.

I know its so overwhelming to navigate all of this. We decided against chemo as well. I think I mentioned before Romeo is undergoing acupuncture and taking a mix of Chinese herbs. Our vet (who practices both Western and Eastern med) said he liked to see all his cancer patients on a daily NSAID (rimadyl, deramaxx, or metacam) (the metacam is pricey), 400 ius (international units) of omega 3 fatty acids, and 400 ius of vitamin e (he said the generic vit e did not seem to be as effective). Unfortunately, Romeo can't seem to tolerate NSAIDs--GI issues--we are trying the metacam as a last resort but it doesn't look good. He also takes Dasuquin (glucosamine)-two tabs a day. Romeo is about 90 lbs. 

I would get into detail about the herbs but I think they are mixed very specifically to each dog---also I think they have to be prescribed. They are grown in Canada.

Our vet had some concerns about atremisinin so we decided against it, but I know others on this site have used it.

I think Cemil is also doing holistic treatments. Also, if you search the site there's lots of info from Jerry's folks etc about supplements.

I really agonized about the chemo decision, but I am so glad we didn't do it for Romeo. And I can completely relate to the financial strain.

But I hope you won't feel bad about not doing chemo---there are a lot of very nasty side effects. Some dogs do ok, but some don't.

There are dogs like Jerry and Radar (still doing great one year post amputation) who do really well w/out chemo.

And Romeo is doing great! I think he was trying to audition for the Tripawd Olympics today!

Hope this helps. Pam will have great advice. Jake looks great! Take care, Eve and Romeo   

Wesley Chapel, FL
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6 October 2009 - 8:02 pm
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Thanks so much for the info Eve and Romeo…

Did your vet say exactly why he wanted Romeo to stay on NSAIDs and for how long? I need some explanation if I'm going to ask my vet about it. Did he also explain why he thought the vit E and omega fatty acids would also be beneficial? I did get some glucosamine supplements for Jake from Nupro (Whole Health Joint Support). They also contain MSM, Ester-C, dessicated liver and norwegian kelp. I've also put Jake on senior vitamins from Foster & Smith. In addition to the possibility of the cancer spreading, I'm also concerned about his remaining 3 legs and all the extra weight they have to bear… especially the remaining front one. I'm so paranoid that he'll break it and then we are really done…

Jake's Mom

Jake, 10yr old golden retriever (fractured his front right leg on 9/1, bone biopsy revealed osteosarcoma on 9/10, amputation on 9/17) and his family Marguerite, Jacques and Wolfie, 5yr old german shepherd and the newest addition to the family, Nala, a 7mth old Bengal mix kittie. Jake lost his battle on 11/9/2009, almost 8 weeks after his surgery. We will never forget our sweet golden angel… http://jakesjou.....ipawds.com ….. CANCER SUCKS!

Kirkland, WA
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2 June 2009
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6 October 2009 - 8:41 pm
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Supplements I have had Jack on

IP6 and Inositol Study

And this is part (ok, most) of an e-mail I got from a friend whose friend's dog had cancer….

One thing, stay away from Grain foods! Jaws did better when I started boiling meat and hamburger. I got protein based foods with no grains. They might be able to slowly switch to a food where corn, wheat or rice is more towards the bottom of the ingredients rather than in the top 5. Most vets will recommend "Taste of the Wild" and you can get that at most pet stores and it isnt too $$$.
 
I basically did alot of cancer research on the web. Jaws had lymphnoma. I found a vitamen supplement called K9 immunity to help him, but it got too pricey so I did something else. I got my own stuff after reading info. The dog will do good if they give him:
 
>Fish oil: 1000 mg per 20 lbs of dog
>Vitamin C (smash up 1 pill every meal)
>A tablespoon of flaxseed oil daily  (keep immune system good) and you can mix with cottage cheese (a tablespoon)
>Green tea capsule – open up a capsule and its like powder and you can mix in food (antioxidents) for every meal
>Sweet potatos cooked arent bad either if mixed with food.
>Yogurt (plain) —-a glob in the food—-helps every now and then to keep stomach digesting good
 
 
!!!!!One thing I want to make real clear. Alot of people suggested a dog with cancer go on a natural raw food diet. Well that isnt bad if your dog is used to it and ISNT on chemo, but chemo kills a dogs immune system. That's what is the worse thing about it, and if they eat raw eggs and meat, they dont have the bacterias or immunity to fight off the stuff in raw foods and they end up with infections and fevers. So if they want to give their dog better food, id cook it.
Also chemo will give the dog diaherria and sometimes constipate the dog. So having canned pumpkin and Immodium AD around the house isnt a bad option.
 
Also canned salmon and sardines in oil or water is real good for the dog. Tons of minerals.
 
I am goign to also recommend some of these I found online depending on the dogs symptoms. Also read under this, I added a recipe and a link that will help.
 
Optional Immune stimulants that may be beneficial:
Echinacea: This plant is an immune-system booster. You can find Echinacea in health food stores in several forms:  tablets, tinctures, capsules, and extracts of dried or fresh roots. American doctors aren’t familiar with Echinacea but in other countries there as been a lot of research done. Follow adult dosing directions. 
Astragalus: This comes from the root of the plant, Astragalus membranaceus. It has been used in China to fight respiratory infections including colds and flu. Studies in the West have confirmed its immune-boosting and antiviral properties. Follow adult dosing directions.

Other purported Anti-Cancer herbs:
 
Cat's Claw: Uncaria tomentosa, comes from Peruand was used to treat arthritis and cancer. Studies have confirmed that it has antioxidants and immune-enhancing properties. For small dogs, use ¼ the adult dosage and for medium dogs use ½.
Pau D'Arco: This herb is extracted from the bark of the Tahebuia genustree in South America. It contains lapachol and other phytochemicals which produce anti-cancer and anti-inflammatory results.  For small dogs, use ¼ the adult dosage and for medium dogs use ½. 
 
Other Dietary Supplements:
 
Milk Thistle: This helps prevent dog cancer liver damage. It can help treat hepatitisand prevent injury from other drugs. It can protect the liver from chemotherapy and anti-convulsants (phenobarbital). Suggested dosage is 250 mg for a dog under 25 lbs, and 500 mg for a dog over 25 lbs once daily. Milk thistle should be used in most cases of liver cancer, but always ask your veterinarian.
Shark Cartilage: This has anti-angiogenic properties which reduce blood vessels in tumors.  You can use 1000-2000 mg of shark cartilage if recommended by your vet or oncologist
 
Misc:
Essiac tea, Wheatgrass extract, Soybean Concentrate or Chlorella. These are sometimes used, but are not proven treatments.
Spirulina and chlorella provide protein, vitamins and minerals. Miraculous claims made for these products have not been substantiated.
Additional Treatments:
Acupuncture: Acupuncture can relieve pain and provide analgesia without the side effects of drugs. It can stabilize the function of the adrenal gland and increase endogenous corticosteroid secretion without the side effects of steroids. Electrical acupuncture can improve muscle strength and reflex activity. It can help relieve muscle spasms after operations. Acupuncture is usually a process of several treatments. If it doesn’t show results in 3-5 treatments then it probably won’t work. Your veterinarian could refer you to a veterinary acupuncturist.
Static Magnetic Therapy: Static Magnetic Therapy: North pole magnets create alkalinity by decreasing hydrogen ion concentration in tissue. They suppress cell mitosis, viral/bacterial growth, tumors and inflammation. Apply a north pole magnet over the tumor area for 15-20 minutes a day. Medical magnets should be 1000-3000 gauss.
Healing Touch: Healing touch: Some believe that "life force" and "energy" can be transferred to a patient through touch and this will cause healing benefits. No spiritual belief is necessary and there is no harm that can be done. Some studies have shown that touch can reduce stress and blood pressure of the patient. It is not easy to demonstrate the results of healing touch. Petting your sick dog is good therapy for both of you and certainly will not cause you any harm. He or She needs lot's of love and attention at this time, as do you.
If you want more information about these additional treatments please do a search on google.
 
DogCancer.net Diet
 
Here is a recipe:
The Canine Cancer Diet:
Most canine cancer patients will do best on a grain free commercial dog food supplemented with the addition of a partially cooked or raw food diet.  If you are concerned with how your dog will react with a raw diet, start off with rare cooked meat and slowly wean them to raw.
Due to the high acid in their stomach, dogs are not susceptible to the bacteria that humans are and a raw diet is a benefit to them. Their stomach acid also allows them to digest bone.

The raw food diet (or BARF diet – Biologically Appropriate Raw Foods) should consist of 75% meat and 25% fruit/veggies
BARF Diet Ingredients:
Bones – they MUST be raw – cooked/smoked bones are never safe as they will splinter
Meat – chunked or ground (beef, lamb, chicken, pork, etc)
Offal (liver, kidneys, heart, unbleached green tripe (which can be purchased in a can at your local gourmet pet food store))
Vegetables – (broccoli, spinach, celery, bok choy, carrot, capsicum)
Fruit – (whole apple, whole pear, whole grapefruit, whole orange)
Other Goodies – Whole egg, flax seed, garlic, kelp, alfalfa, kefir
Yogurt and cottage cheese are good to mix with the fruit/veggies to entice the dog to eat them

Recipe – 1 week of raw meat patties for a 50 pound active dog
4 lbs ground meats – beef and/or lamb and/or chicken and/or turkey
2 cups raw goat milk or 1 cup yogurt or cottage cheese
3 raw eggs
1 apple
1 glove garlic
2 carrots
1.5 pound mixed veggies (such as sweet potato, broccoli, zucchini, kale, spinach)
Mix in food processor and make into patties to freeze

Winnipeg
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13 July 2009
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6 October 2009 - 8:54 pm
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First, note to Jack: well that should keep the newbies busy for a month or two or three!! How can one dog consume so much stuffSurprised

Now, Jake. Some people start a metronomics protocol after chemo, instead of chemo or after metastases show up. This should be considered a form of cancer therapy as opposed to a nutritional supplement. The idea of metronomics (and this will answer your NSAID question) is to cut off the blood supply to tumours that develop. That is different than high dose chemo which aims to kill microscopic cells. Once a met shows up, the chemo cannot kills the cells inside the tumour. That is why we stop chemo when a met shows up (like me with Tazzie now). So we start metronomics to cut off the blood flow to those nasty mets. but theoretically you can prevent the blood flow by using metronomics sooner.

So, there are just a couple of drugs involved in metronomics . The main one is usually Cytoxan. It is a chemo drug, but for this program we use a low dose once a day (or every other day). Some dogs have bladder crystal problems but the smart Tazzie (tazziedog) says that is more common in girl than in boy dogs. Cytoxan is expensive, but it should not be anything like the cost of traditional chemo, I don't think (not sure, but I should know). The other "drug" is a NSAID like piroxicam or metacam. It is also supposed to cut off the blood supply to mets (either before or after they form).

Jerry went on metronomics after they found lung mets. 

So you might want to look into this. Metronomics (there is another term you will see, something like anti-angiogenesis, but that is not right) is a proven therapy, however, people are doing a lot of research on it now to figure out what is most effective.

Even if you don't want to take on the chemo drug component (Cytoxan), you might still use the NSAID, unless Jake has problems tolerating the NSAID.

Jerry posted a nice and simple spreadsheet, outlining some basic forms of treatment and the time when they might be appropriate.

Susan & Tazzie 2

On The Road


Member Since:
24 September 2009
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6 October 2009 - 9:16 pm
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We are nt ves, but if you've missed it be sure to check out Jerry's canine cancer diet and supplements.

Aloha Medicinals, the makers of K9 Immunity , also have some good cancer dog diet information.

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet


Member Since:
22 August 2008
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6 October 2009 - 11:45 pm
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As usual averyone has given great advice, and you can see that there is no right choice for every dog.

If you want to do something holistic you can see my reply post to you under "Artemisinin " which discusses the herb as well as medicinal mushrooms.  Antioxidants are a great idea!  My Tazzie takes Vitamin C, Vitamin E, CoEnzyme Q10, milk thistle, SAM-E, and Dasuquin.  Some of these things are to support her liver and heart but they may also help with cancer of any type.  I do also use a holistic vet for acupuncture and my other cancer dog Kona takes a Chinese Herb mix called Stasis Breaker that is supposed to disrupt blood flow to the tumor.  You would need a consult and a prescription for something like this because as Romeo says what works for one dog may actually be bad for another.

A daily NSAID is a good idea even if you don't do the Cytoxan part since it can also help reduce new blood vessel formation.  I am a big fan of Metacam (seems much safer and far fewer GI side effects than piroxicam).  You might not realize it but the generic form of Metacam is called meloxicam and since it a human drug you can get it dirt cheap if your vet will write a script for you.  It comes in 7.5 mg tablets so your dog must be large to be able to use it.  Tazzie takes 1 pill daily but a Lab or Golden size dog would probably only need 1/4 to 1/2 tablet once daily. If you have a Walmart, Target, or Fred Meyer pharmacy near you the cost would be $4 per month.

Also feed a high quality diet.  There are lots of good suggestions on this site.

Pam and Tazzie

Wesley Chapel, FL
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13 September 2009
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7 October 2009 - 5:45 am
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Thanks for all the excellent advice! I'm definitely going to talk to my vet about starting him on some sort of cox-2 inhibitor. Is metacam the best one to use for it's antiangiogenic properties, or is it just the one with the least GI side effects? Should he be on a regular dose or is their a different dosage to use as an antiangiogenic?

Jake's Mom

Jake, 10yr old golden retriever (fractured his front right leg on 9/1, bone biopsy revealed osteosarcoma on 9/10, amputation on 9/17) and his family Marguerite, Jacques and Wolfie, 5yr old german shepherd and the newest addition to the family, Nala, a 7mth old Bengal mix kittie. Jake lost his battle on 11/9/2009, almost 8 weeks after his surgery. We will never forget our sweet golden angel… http://jakesjou.....ipawds.com ….. CANCER SUCKS!

Winnipeg
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13 July 2009
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7 October 2009 - 7:58 am
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Jake

Many people use piroxicam. It sounds as though the initial studies showing the anti-angiogenic (sp?) effect were done using Piroxicm and it is standard on metronomics protocols (but we are using metacam instead). Metacam is supposed to have the same mechanism. They say to use the same dose as would be used for pain - I had that same question.

Susan & T2


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7 October 2009 - 12:44 pm
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Many oncologists substitute other COX-2 NSAIDS in place of piroxicam because they do have the same action.  The only time I try to use piroxicam is for transitional cell carcinoma of the bladder since that is the cancer that the piroxicam studies were done for.  Metacam is probably the closest chemically to piroxicam.

If your dog is handling piroxicam without issues then I would continue it.

Pam

Wesley Chapel, FL
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13 September 2009
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7 October 2009 - 1:21 pm
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Jake was on Previcox (firocoxib) for the 2 weeks he had his broken leg and until his amputation. After the surgery, he was put on Tramadol and amoxicillin... and a week later on Baytril.

Are there any published reports on using metacam (or other cox-2 inhibitors) in dogs with osteosarcoma? I'd like to be able to show my vet when I ask him about it.

Jake's Mom

Jake, 10yr old golden retriever (fractured his front right leg on 9/1, bone biopsy revealed osteosarcoma on 9/10, amputation on 9/17) and his family Marguerite, Jacques and Wolfie, 5yr old german shepherd and the newest addition to the family, Nala, a 7mth old Bengal mix kittie. Jake lost his battle on 11/9/2009, almost 8 weeks after his surgery. We will never forget our sweet golden angel… http://jakesjou.....ipawds.com ….. CANCER SUCKS!


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7 October 2009 - 9:33 pm
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Unfortunately there are no studies proving that NSAIDS help delay the recurrence of osteosarcoma.  However it is very common for tripawds to develop arthritis in other legs so that alone is a good indication for an NSAID.  Previcox is a COX-2 inhibitor so it should work the same way as piroxicam to help limit new blood vessel production.

Your vet may want to test your dog's blood prior to prescribing a long-term NSAID and it is smart to recheck the bloodwork 1 month and every 3-6 months after starting the drug to make sure that the liver and kidneys are not having side effects.

Pam and Tazzie

On The Road


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13 October 2009 - 9:56 am
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Hi everyone,

We just came across this excellent post by one of our favorite holistic dog cancer vets, Dr. Demian Dressler, about the risks of using Pau D'Arco.

Pau D'Arco: Dicey in Dog Cancer

We hope anyone using it, or considering using it, will take the time to read his important information about this supplement. We used to have links to purchasing sources here, but we're removing them because we can no longer endorse it in good faith after reading this.

Tripawds Founders Jim and Rene
tripawds.com | tripawds.org | bemoredog.net | triday.pet

dixiedog
14
9 November 2009 - 7:17 pm
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While we were in Tucson, AZ this past weekend, we talked to many people about our dog Dixie's amputation. (Background, Dixie has healed, and doesn't have cancer anymore, that we know of. She had a soft-tissue cancer.) An herbalist recommended Herb Robert for her. She felt it would be a good edition to her vitamin regimine. It helps oxygen get to cells in the body, which helps healing and fight disease.

You can read more about Herb Robert at http://middlepa.....tianum.php.

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