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Seizure and incontinence
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2 March 2018 - 10:43 pm
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Hi all-

We haven’t been around here much the last few months. To be honest, it hasn’t been going well and I’ve been a bit depressed. Jack has been experiencing incontinence (no clear cause despite lots of testing), had multiple injuries and tonight, we’re currently at the emergency vet after she had a seizure in the middle of the night. It just feels like one setback after another and like she’s gotten a rotten deal. I’ll update  once we know something, but I am very worried

Livermore, CA
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2 March 2018 - 11:03 pm
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Oh man, you have your hands full.

I've dealt with incontinence and seizures, but in two different pugs.  I'm in chat right now...

Karen

Tri-pug Maggie survived a 4.5 year mast cell cancer battle only to be lost to oral melanoma.

1999 to 2010

 

              Maggie's Story                  Amputation and Chemo

Virginia
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2 March 2018 - 11:38 pm
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Oh dear Sara......Hoping things can get figured out.   DC Jack is one tough lady and certainly has the best partner a dog could possible have.

We're all sending you our love and pawsitive e ergy.  GET WELL JACK!!!  We love you sweet girl!heart

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

Livermore, CA
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2 March 2018 - 11:51 pm
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So we did get to chat for a little while.

I passed on that I read somewhere that girl dogs who are fixed early can develop incontinence relatively early.  Jack is 6 but was fixed when she was 2 months old since she was a stray. 

Seizures can happen only once or be infrequent.  It is often difficult to determine a cause- it is called idiopathic epilepsy when a cause is not found.  My experience with seizures was with quad pug Tani who had a brain injury which caused her seizures.  I forgot to add in chat that her symptoms were well controlled with meds and she lived to almost 15 after being diagnosed at 2 years old.

I think they were on their way home after we chatted for a bit.  Hoping the rest of the night is quiet and peaceful.

Karen and the Spirit Pug Girls

Tri-pug Maggie survived a 4.5 year mast cell cancer battle only to be lost to oral melanoma.

1999 to 2010

 

              Maggie's Story                  Amputation and Chemo

London, UK
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3 March 2018 - 2:01 am
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I'm so sorry to hear this, Sarah and I hope that you are now safely back home and enjoying a restful night.

Obviously seizures and incontinence can be caused by any number of factors and are not necessarily related. But, I have to ask, has Jack had a brain scan? I'm sorry to raise it, as I know it's a really frightening possibility, but my Billie had a seizure and incontinence and also she started stumbling (you mention 'multiple injuries'). In her case, this was all caused by a brain tumour. Of course, it may well be absolutely nothing like that, but if it is, then, depending on the type and location of the tumour, some can be very well managed with steroids etc., so long as they are diagnosed early. This is why I thought I'd better say something. I hope you don't mind and I certainly don't want to panic you. Billie took a long time to diagnose as the vets kept going up blind alleys. It wasn't until they did a scan that the tumour was confirmed. As I say though, there are LOTS of other possible explanations for Jack's symptoms.

Thinking of you and sending lots of love,

Meg, Clare and Angel Pie xxx

Meg, Mutt, aged around 9, adopted 31/12/2009. Sudden explosive right elbow fracture 06/12 (caused by IOHC), diagnosed with End Stage Arthritis 03/15, Total Elbow Replacement 08/15, problems with healing leading to skin graft & skin flap surgery, Chronic Infection leading to implant breakdown. Became a Tripawd 9th March 2016. 
Lives with Mum, Clare, watched over by Angel Pie and Angel Billie
My life as a MEG-A-STAR 


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3 March 2018 - 8:43 am
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Thank you to Karen for chatting with me in the middle of the night while I sat in the waiting room of Penn Vet - I can't tell you how much that helped to have someone listen, especially since she's been through similar scares.

Thankfully, we live three blocks away from Penn Vet and were able to get there quickly and things were quiet, so we were seen right away. So Clare, the vet echoed you - it's likely the pain and incontinence and seizures are not linked, unless there's a tumor or something else going on in her brain. But they're recommending to wait until there are any other similar symptoms before going for a scan. For now, we're going to assume the seizure is a one-off and watch her very closely. 

As for the other symptoms, we're going to keep hunting. We've ruled out the most likely causes except for Cushings, bladder stones and incontinence caused by loss of muscle tone. I suspect the first because she started drinking 2-3 times her normal amount almost overnight and that has persisted. Does anyone have experience with Cushings and whether that can lead to back pain/injuries? The injuries have been strange- she has been throwing out her back and having trouble walking off and on. Again, the vet can't determine a precise cause, she just seems sore and it goes away on its own, only to return. 

London, UK
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3 March 2018 - 8:59 am
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I'm pleased they were able to see her so quickly. I know that Paula (dobemum) has experience of Cushings, as we were wondering about this with my Elsie. Sadly not.

Other symptoms Billie had were pacing in circles and staring at the wall. She wasn't drinking more or anything like that.

Everything crossed that Jack's seizure is just a one-off, as can certainly happen, and you may never even know the cause. 

Will be looking for updates and hoping all this resolves soon and that Jack is feeling much better.

Meg, Clare and Angel Pie xxx

Meg, Mutt, aged around 9, adopted 31/12/2009. Sudden explosive right elbow fracture 06/12 (caused by IOHC), diagnosed with End Stage Arthritis 03/15, Total Elbow Replacement 08/15, problems with healing leading to skin graft & skin flap surgery, Chronic Infection leading to implant breakdown. Became a Tripawd 9th March 2016. 
Lives with Mum, Clare, watched over by Angel Pie and Angel Billie
My life as a MEG-A-STAR 


Virginia
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3 March 2018 - 9:36 am
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So glad Karen was there for you and able to talke you off the edge.  And thanks for the update last night too Karen. 

And Clare, thank you for sharing your experience with Billie.  In no way were you being alarming at all.  You were pointing out some good suggestions to make sure nothing was overlooked.

Now our dear Sara......whaf a scary thing ro  go though!  And ues, a o t-time, or very infrequent seizure, certainly is a possibility.  And even IF they do become more frequent, as Karen said, they can DEFINITELY be manzged.

As far as the soreness and back pain, this could certainly be more related to her years as z tripawd and completely unrelated ro anything else.   The fact that she recovers is maybe a good indicator.  Do you have her on anything like Rimadyl? 

My Merry Myrtle seemingly literally became a waterholic overnight a couple of month or so ago. It lasted several days and then back to normal. Nothing abnormal  ablut her pee routine, earing, etc.   At the time, blood and urine all checked out okay.   Then several weeks later it started sgain and with frequent urination...getting up several times during night, excessive drinking, etc.  A raging UTI and crystals.   First roound of a antibiotics cleared the crystals, but still had blood in urine.  Second round of antibiotics she's on now...Baytril.  tpThe drinking is back to normal and not having to get up in middle of night to pee.  Urine color @ooks okay to me, but obviously need it checked at Vet.  Going in next week for follow-up.  If still going on, may have ro xray for kidney stones.

Went through sll that to say you may be dealing with three, maybe four, unrelated scenarios.  The seizure may have been a one rime, or infequent thing.  The incontinence may be due to early spaying.  The drinking, etc may be UTI related.  The soreness may be tripawd related.

Then again, two or three couod be relsted!  Ugh!  Anyway, not sure what tests are involved for Cushing, but certainly worth pursuing. 

Now TRY and get some rest.  I know you are already spoiling DC Jack more than any dog could ever hope for, but you should still give her a scoop of ice cream today! 🙂  And  two scoops for you!! 🙂  

You KNOW we are all sending a boatload of good healing e ergynyour way.....and that's a powerful therapy for healing anything and everything!!

Lots and lots of love...to hubby too!

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle and Frankie too!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

Green Bay, WI
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3 March 2018 - 9:55 pm
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Hi! I have experience with Cushings AND incontinence. But not in the same dog. My dobe, Nitro, developed incontinence about 1 1/2 years after his amp. We were never able to figure out if it was due to the metronomic therapy he had, or was just due to failing kidneys and old age.  It was very cyclical, coming and going. We just adapted to it, he wore diapers with a male wrap, and life went on. My Westie, Kodi, has had Cushing's for nearly a year. His symptoms were excessive thirst and appetite (which caused excessive peeing). We had ruled out the usual suspects of diabetes, kidney disease, UTI. There is a test for Cushings, which your vet will know about. He didn't have any injuries or back problems per se. He is almost 14 years old and most likely has arthritis in his hind end. He sees a holistic vet for acupuncture and chiropractic adjustments. For his cushings, he takes a daily med called vetoryl - there is no cure for this, but the symptoms can be managed. Good luck in figuring out what's going on.

Paula and Warrior Angel Nitro

P.S. you can PM me for more info, or to talk about things if you want

Nitro 11 1/2  yr old Doberman; right front amp June 2014. Had 6 doses carboplatin, followed by metronomic therapy. Rocked it on 3 legs for over 3 years! My Warrior beat cancer, but couldn't beat old age. He crossed the Bridge peacefully on July 25, 2017, with dignity and on his terms.  Follow his blog entitled "Doberman's journey"

http://nitro.tr.....27_2_1.jpg

"Be good, mama loves you".....run free my beautiful Warrior

Virginia
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3 March 2018 - 10:48 pm
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Just saw this on "symptons" of Cushing.  Of course, it was from Dr Google, so Dr Google is not a Vet and Dr Google is not giving Vet advice 🙂

may develop and the dog may experience a loss of muscle tone in the hind end, accompanied by noticeable weakness in the hind end.

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

Livermore, CA
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3 March 2018 - 11:08 pm
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I'm glad I was able to provide a little calm- I've had my share of midnight runs to the doggie ER!

If there was to be something going on in her brain you might see other signs.  Before Tani's first big seizure she was having weird episodes that I didn't recognize as anything- they were most likely little seizures.  She would sometimes have a moment where she seemed to be mentally gone- it would be a couple seconds actually and then she would look at me like I just got there.  She would sometimes lose her balance just a little- she wouldn't fall.  One day she was up on the couch and went to jump down but stood on the edge swaying back and forth a little- like she was dizzy or couldn't focus on the floor.  I though she had an ear infection and made a vet appointment.  It was the night before that vet appointment that she had the first seizure.  Another indicator was a proprioception deficit- when the vet turned her paw under she did not correct it immediately like a normal dog.

Hopefully none of the above ever comes into play with Jack.  All paws crossed here for a one time event.

When Maggie became incontinent I tried to avoid meds but she was just too wet too often.  And by the way- diapers don't stay on a rear amp dog!  Our vet prescribed Proin which worked very well for Maggie.  I remember that Dr. Pam preferred estrogen treatment for girl dogs but I don't remember why. 

Karen and the Spirit Pug Girls

Tri-pug Maggie survived a 4.5 year mast cell cancer battle only to be lost to oral melanoma.

1999 to 2010

 

              Maggie's Story                  Amputation and Chemo

Virginia
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4 March 2018 - 4:10 pm
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How's sweet Jack doing today?  Bet aStarbucks Puppicinno would  help 🙂

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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4 March 2018 - 7:54 pm
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I know a dog who has cushings and has had back pain and odd injuries. The dog's folks believe it's part of his cushings. I guess because she always used to be such a fit dog and the injuries started at the same time as other cushing symptoms.

As far as seizures go, I know they are terrifying but many dogs do recover well and don't have frequent seizures. I know it's really overwhelming right now, but you would be amazed at what some dogs can pull through. 

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5 March 2018 - 6:20 am
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No more seizures since Friday! The vet said that probably means we're out of the woods there for now. I'm taking Jack to my normal vet for more tests related to the incontinence and pain and will update when we get results. Like many of you have said, it looks like we're dealing with separate issues here. If she's well-behaved, we will stop for a puppicino on our way back!

Sally, thanks for the kind words and for sharing Myrtle's experience - so you know the pain of the middle of the night bathroom breaks, too! We have had a very sick foster kitten who has needed force feeding every few hours - between the two of them, I'm starting to feel like I have a newborn and may never get a full night's sleep. Fingers crossed Myrtle doesn't have kidney stones and all is back to normal. 

Paula - thanks so much. We're off for the Cushing's test this morning. I'm glad to hear that if that's the cause, we can handle it. 

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8 March 2018 - 8:19 am
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A few updates: first, she had another seizure last night and it was more severe than the last. It lasted about 3 minutes, which was excruciating to watch. We saw the vet on Monday and have done all the low level diagnostics and everything looks normal, which leaves two likely scenarios: idiopathic epilepsy (more likely) or something structural in the brain, like a tumor (less likely). Jack hates being handled by the vet, so we've opted for starting on phenobarbital as a way to rule in epilepsy, hopefully. 

Second, she started on Prion this Monday and it has worked wonders - no more incontinence, so that's good. 

And third, we saw another vet about her limping and the sense is that her arthritis is getting more serious in her front leg. Not a good sign, but we have a plan of attack on that end now, too. 

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