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Quadpawd - How to know when it's time?
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Member Since:
1 August 2014
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20 December 2014 - 9:34 pm
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So, I decided to post this in anything goes since it's about a quadpawd, but I figured with all you animal pawrents, you might be the best people to help.

My husky is 14 as of July. She has arthritis and recently had a sebacious cyst site that will not heal because she won't leave it alone.The vet recommended surgery to prevent infection; however, at the age of 14, I'm unsure if surgery is really a good idea. It just sounds like more pain for a pet that may not have longer to live.

However, I'm having a really hard time making a decision. She's been on deramaxx for about a year. We just added Tramadal (sp?) last Friday in addition to the deramaxx because she's in pain at night. Or at least, I assume it's pain because she cries as she circles around/braces herself to sit/lay down. However, sometimes she doesn't whine at all and plops down like she has no arthritis at all. And on top of this, she's also a husky who is very vocal so how am I to know she isn't hot or something? When she comes in after going to the bathroom she prances around all excited for a treat. Sometimes she even play bows. She still gets excited about going for a walk too.

However, she sways too. Like when she's standing, she'll start leaning to one side until she eventually moves and starts the process over or she sits. After pacing or a walk or being all excited for a treat, it's worse. Sometimes, she can't even stand to eat if she's been too active.

We changed her food recently and now she eats regularly and is putting on weight again. Her bloodwork is great according to the vets.

However, she has a hard time with pooping. When she realizes she has to go, 9 times out of 10, it means she needs to go THEN, which often occurs in the house and sometimes even when she's sleeping or laying down or something as I find it right where she was sleeping. She'll get up and go somewhere else obviously, but I can't imagine she enjoys that. She also has a harder time going I think because of the awkward (or at least it looks awkward and always has) position that dogs have to get in to poop. She now has to walk while she poops, or she falls in it.

She managed to tell me twice this week that she needed to go outside to poop and managed to wait until then; however, I usually find a pile of poop or two when I get home from work in the house.

I'm just really torn with what to do. This is the first time I've had to make this decision. Our previous dogs had various end of life experiences. One fell asleep and never woke up at the age of 17 while I was away at college; our rottie we had put to sleep because he could no longer stand to poop and would just lie there in it, and our lab became very ill and was dropping weight without any clue as to what happened. I was there for the latter two, so I'm aware of what happens during the process, but they were also my siblings' dogs and my mother was the one who made all the choices. Plus, I was with her when we put them to sleep.

Now though, I'm living away from my mom and have to make the decision alone. Plus, this is my baby who I've been best friends with since 7th grade.

While the vets say that the operation should be fine and he is 95% confident that there would be no complications, I'm torn by the idea of causing more pain to a dog who seems to be having pain lying down. I know she's lost a lot of muscle mass in her back legs too. But then she seems to act like she's a puppy again with me at times, especially when she wants her treats or her medicine. Yet she also wakes me up in the middle of the night whining while she tries to lie down.

She's just not consistent with showing her pain that it makes me wonder if it's time yet or if she's just really good at masking her pain until it's unbearable since she whines the most when it's time for more medicine. I just don't know.

I've read articles about making the right choice, but they all talk about quality of life and if your pet still does the things they like to do. She stopped playing when the other dogs passed on because she only really enjoyed keeping things away from them. She's not a dog that has ever enjoyed being petted, so in all reality it just feels like all she does is sleep, go outside, and come in all excited for a treat. It's been her life for several years now, but what kind of life is that? Is that an okay life for an aging pet? I mean, how do I know if she's no longer interested in doing things if she's never really been a typical dog?

How do I figure out what to do? What would you do if this was your dog? I'm so conflicted. If it wasn't for this stupid cyst, I feel like I wouldn't have to decide now, but I know it bothers her. And she almost died getting stung by bees earlier this year and during the checkup afterward is when the stupid cyst came off. It just feels like well why did she survive that if she's just going to die from this?

I feel like I have to choose something, but the one hand feels like causing more pain to an elderly dog and the other feels like I'm killing my best friend. What if I make the wrong choice?

Tina and Smore

(with the spirit of Pebbles watching from the Rainbow Bridge)

 

Smore is my tripawd kitty who adopted me one summer evening. She had an injury to her front left leg and had to have her leg removed July 17th. She was only 3 or 4 months old at the time. Now she moves faster than some four legged cats!

Virginia







Member Since:
22 February 2013
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20 December 2014 - 10:20 pm
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Wow! A fourteen yr. Old Husky....GOOD JOB! And you had another dog who made it to 17? Double good job!!!

Yeah, the afing process for humans or dogs can be a little rough!!! "Growing old isn't for sissys"!

A couple of things stood out.....it does seem that your girl is enjoying life...just in a senior form! The arthritis can make it uncomfortable for her to get in a squatting pooping losition. Also she may need a bit of a stool softener...perhaps a tavlespoon of canned pumpkin (natural...not the type made for pies).

Search the site here for arthritis treatment....some ofthe solutions aren't coming to mind right now, but I think there are better and stronger alternstives than Dermaxx that could help her.

Pain meds are usually more effective when given on a consistent basis so the pain doesn't have a chance to get a head start. So you may ask the vet about keeping her on a low dose of Tramadol every "X" number of hours.

The fact that she is eating and loving her treats is a good sign, as well as good bloodwork.

Okay, as far as the cyst....is it possible to keep a t-shirt in her or some other way of keep i ng her from getting to it?

You made an insightful comment..."If it were not for the stupid cyst, you wouldn't have to decide now." Is there any other way to manage the cycst without surgery?

Not sure I was much help. You have come to the right place for support though. ALL of us here understand the deep bond we form with these wonderful souls.

Sending you extra hugs!

Sally and Alumni Happy Hannah and Merry Myrtle too!

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

Virginia
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26 January 2014
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21 December 2014 - 7:37 am
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I agree with Sally, it sounds like she is still enjoying herself. Having an older dog is definitely not for the faint of heart, but she's still playing and bloodwork looks good...that alone is reason enough to celebrate, especially at 14! So it sounds like its just managing the cyst at this point. How is your vet on the concept of chinese medicine? There is an herb called Yunnan Baiyao, that might be a good option to help heal the cyst, keep bleeding and inflammation down etc. It can be used internally or topically. You can read about it here: 

http://www.mode....._s/147.htm

It can be ordered on Amazon for cheap, but only use it with the approval of your vet. My Jake's oncologist prescribed it when he was diagnosed with an incurable hemangiosarcoma. It's the only medicine I kept after he passed away. I plan to always have it around for emergencies. If you search the threads for it, there are some other people who have used it too with their pups (I know Deb's Lexi used it..she was a senior pup as well). 

Also, not sure of the cysts location but a lot of people here have put regular t-shirts on their pups to help keep ampuutation incisions covered. Perhaps that might work for you? 

Mom to Tripawd Angels Jake (2001-2014) and Rosco (2012-2015) and Tripawd Tanner. “Whatever happens tomorrow, we had today; and I'll always remember it”  

      

Member Since:
18 June 2014
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21 December 2014 - 3:00 pm
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Just weighing in here.  We welcome all pawds lol.  What is her name? Sally and Elizabeth gave great suggestions (as usual) and asked some of the questions that I was thinking about.  Where is the cyst??? Can you keep it covered? There are many alternatives to the old dreaded cone of shame . Sounds like the arthritis and probably decreased sensation that is causing the poop issues.  I had a lab that was VERY arthritic and she would walk and poop. Found myself leash walking her about every hour.  If she is otherwise happy (sounds like she is) the decision is...can you deal with poop in the house?  It was my experience that most of the time they were dry and hard.  As Sally suggested maybe canned pumpkin.  Have you had her anal glands checked and expressed?  I also agree that there are better pain med regimes, check it out.

Love your baby and be happy that she is doing so well at 14.  Appetite, wagging, happy to get treats...all good indicators.

Keep us informed we are here to help.

Member Since:
1 August 2014
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21 December 2014 - 3:54 pm
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She (her name is Pebbles) is on a low dose of Tramadol. 50mg every 12 hours. Deramaxx is 75mg but it's only have a tablet so that's like... 37.5mg a day? So altogether she gets 137.5mg of pain meds today. Wow that does not seem like much at all! I haven't done the math until now. I give her the medicine at the same time every day, except weekends sometimes I accidentally sleep in so it's about an hour or two later than normal. :( I think now that she's had the tramadol for a while, she might be a bit less whiney? Or maybe it's just wishful thinking.

Now that the snow is back, Pebbles is also showing her puppy side by eating it and lying in it like she used to. She could stay out there for hours as a pup. Two days ago though, she was acting like she couldn't get up the stairs. That or she wasn't sure she wanted to come in as she would put a foot on the step and then pause before turning around and walking some more.

She overdoes it now with her activity. She gets all excited for those treats and the pouncing/playbow thing and the running in circles just hurts her later.

She was dropping weight; however, changing her food to a senior variety instead of a mature dog variety has gotten her interested again. Plus, it's winter and huskies eat more in the winter - or at least she always has. Her stool has also become very soft since she started it. The benefit of her pooping in the house I guess is that I pick it up with toilet paper so I know how soft it is.

I took her for a walk to the mailbox today. It was exciting to see her sniffing the ground and generally interested in what had come before her. I think she even pranced/trotted a little. She was definitely excited to go.

Her cyst first came off August 12th, 2014, so I feel bad that it hasn't been taken care of yet since it's been so long. I really thought it was going to heal because when it was shaved and drained by vet, it began to heal. Shortly after the amoxicillan was taken away, her fur began growing in I think and she started messing with it. It was totally scabbing over though and looking great! Now, it's starting to bleed and that deramaxx doesn't help with that of course. It's near her rear leg. There's a picture of it from August here: http://smore.tr.....bbles-vet/

I did put a shirt on it when she began making it bleed. However, she would still mess with it, the shirt would get wet, and I felt that it was unsanitary to have the dirty shirt on it then. Perhaps one of those new collars would help? I don't want to put a traditional e-collar on her because I teach during the day so she's home alone. I know her eyesight is already starting to deteriorate at least in regards to coming from bright to dark and reverse. I worry she'll get hurt.

As for her pooping in the house, obviously it's not what I prefer. However, the room she usually use is covered in plastic so it doesn't mess up the carpet. The rest of the house I try to pick up as quickly as possible, but I am going to need to steam clean it now due to some accidents while at work.

I originally did schedule the surgery for the 23rd, but her constant crying at night and in the morning had me second guessing and thinking perhaps the dreaded E word was best. However, like I said, those moments of her being puppy like and playful kept making me feel like it was wrong.

I'm thinking I need to take her to see the wife-vet since she's the one who started seeing Pebbles whereas her husband, who I've seen the last 2 times, has been the only there to see her cyst. Maybe she can offer some different pain management solutions as you all suggested. The only problem is if the surgery was to happen, it's best now since I have 2 weeks off. Is it wrong to operate on an old dog who already has pain though? I just don't know.

I've heard too of Winston's Joint Formula for dogs. Has anyone tried that?

Tina and Smore

(with the spirit of Pebbles watching from the Rainbow Bridge)

 

Smore is my tripawd kitty who adopted me one summer evening. She had an injury to her front left leg and had to have her leg removed July 17th. She was only 3 or 4 months old at the time. Now she moves faster than some four legged cats!

Virginia
Member Since:
14 March 2014
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23 December 2014 - 12:30 am
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So sorry that some things are getting harder for Pebbles but Sally, Elizabeth and others have given great advice. Have you looked at staggering her meds a bit differently? I would definitely ask your vet about going higher on the doses.

A few things to consider exploring:

-Glycoflex III was a big help for Lexie's arthritis and hip dysplasia. 

-K9 Immunity Plus seemed to help with her energy level.

-Like Elizabeth, I'm a big fan of Yunnan Baiyo for cysts and tumors as well as some additional pain management .

-Karen and a couple of others have done Adequan injections for arthritis.

-Canna-pet.com can allegedly help with pain management and tumor control, but definitely experimental. I don't know of folks here who have used it (yet). 

Back to your original question: this is something that everyone struggles with. Searching the forums for similar posts and reading the Coping with Loss / Anticipatory Grief section really helped me at the time.

Good luck, and congrats for having a husky who has done so well for her age. Pebbles is lucky to have such a great mom, and she knows you have her best interests at heart.

Deb and Angel Lexie* Diagnosed at age 13. Tried radiation first; wish we had amputated upon diagnosis (even with lung mets). Joined Club Tripawd April 2014 & Lexie loved life on 3 legs! Advice: Start physical therapy as soon as your vet clears it, especially hydrotherapy if available :-) See Lexie pics here.  

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