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Anyone know why we treat Kitty Amputation/ Pain Management differently?
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Michigan
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30 January 2017 - 4:15 pm
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Anyone know why we treat Kitty Amputation/ Pain Management differently?

I have had a very hard time with this since we went thru this over 6 months ago . The more kitty members that join, I have to get his off my chest.

We were sent home with 3 days worth of pain meds plus 2 weeks of the gabapentin. The Gabapentin I asked for & insisted upon prior to his surgery. If it was not for Tripawds I would have never known to ask about.

I see a lot of kitties are sent home with 3 days worth of pain meds.

Are cats really ok on 3 days worth of meds? 

Cat's are masters of disguising pain! If they show us pain then we can only imagine what they are going thru;(

This was my post Aug 3rd

Purrkins has one dose of his Buprenorphine left.
He was doing really good on 10.5 hours apart. Yesterday I pushed it to 12 hours knowing we were almost done with it.
Purrkins was in pain he starting meowing and  growled at me and wouldn't let me near him. Theres no doubt he was in pain. Then again this morning .
His inicison couldn't look better no oozing no discoloration. I called MSU this a.m. to talk to the surgeon we can't stop these meds right now. I'm still waiting on his call. Surgery all day. Purrkins is still on the gabapentin every 8 hours. Is there any time frame with cats on pain meds? I saw with dogs some are 14 days on pain meds.
Will see what surgeon says can't imagine it would be a problem to get more pain meds.

It did not end up being a problem for us to get Purrkins more meds prescribed. We spoke with our Surgeon, he wanted to know exactly what was happening and how I knew Purrkins was in pain. He wouldn't let me near him then he started to growl and hiss! That is not PURRKINS! He agreed Purrkins was in pain and needed more pain medicine. He prescribed 3 more days worth . We ended up stretching the Buprenorphine out for 12 days total and The Gabapentin 14 days.

We were fortunate enough to take Purrkins for accupuncture to get off of his pain meds and heal faster. Dr. Matt was certain it would help and it absolutely DID!

I feel we may have a lot of kitties suffering needlessly? 
Am I the only one wondering this? I hate to think that any animal should have to suffer when we can prevent it with the help of our Veterinarians . 

Holly & Purrkins heart

Virginia
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30 January 2017 - 5:03 pm
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For whatever it's worth, we see that same shortsighted/oblivious attitude about pain management with dogs sometimes too!

It's hard to believe there is still so much ignorance when it comes to animals and pain. But yes, it may be more often often in cats.

I have no answers. It's just plain wrong though and awareness needs to be raised! And you are doing an excellent job of bringing about change! 🙂 🙂

Happy Hannah had a glorious additional bonus time of over one yr & two months after amp for osteo! She made me laugh everyday! Joined April's Angels after send off meal of steak, ice cream, M&Ms & deer poop!

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30 January 2017 - 6:07 pm
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I'm glad you asked this because it is something I have wondered about since we had our first few kitty members join.  It's been a long time since I had a cat and none of the cats I ever had needed any big surgery so it was never an issue.  I am old enough to remember when bringing dogs home from a spay or neuter without any pain meds was the norm.  By the time the pug girls started falling apart we always got at least a couple days of pain meds for any procedure.  Last year Elly had a baby tooth pulled that hadn't fallen out and she even got Tram for a few days!

I am comfortable about talking to people about pain management in dogs because I've been through a lot with my dogs, but honestly I don't know about cats, I would like to know more.

I do know that when reading some of the pain management info on this site I've seen either that a drug approved for dogs cannot be used for cats, or that a med studied in dogs has not been studied in cats.  For example fentanly is often used in dogs but not in cats. There are some drugs used in cats that are not used in dogs like buprenorphine.  So clearly there is some difference in tolerance and how dogs and cats metabolize drugs.

That does not answer the question of how long meds are given though.

Karen and the Spirit Pug Girls

Tri-pug Maggie survived a 4.5 year mast cell cancer battle only to be lost to oral melanoma.

1999 to 2010

 

              Maggie's Story                  Amputation and Chemo

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30 January 2017 - 8:11 pm
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Actually Emma Rose was just given buprenorphine and will continue with this all week. Only supposition but pain is relative and cats do disguise pain more so than dogs. And, yet, not acceptable that vet practices undermedicate for pain.

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30 January 2017 - 9:51 pm
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Mona was prescribed buprenorphine and metacam (for inflammation and pain). I can't remember how many days she was on buprenorphine (maybe a week) but I did return the bottle with some left in it because it is a controlled substance. I continued with the Metacam until the stitches were out. In Canada there is Metacam for Felines which is different than the one for dogs. The Metacam in the US seems to be different as the label is for dogs, not cats and is considered unsafe for cats.

Kerren and Tripawd Kitty Mona

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30 January 2017 - 11:48 pm
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Actually Emma Rose was just given buprenorphine and will continue with this all week.

That is really interesting- I don't think I've heard of that before.  I know Emma Rose is having some unique issues, did the vet say why they are using buprenorphine? 

There is always something to learn here.

Karen

Tri-pug Maggie survived a 4.5 year mast cell cancer battle only to be lost to oral melanoma.

1999 to 2010

 

              Maggie's Story                  Amputation and Chemo

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31 January 2017 - 3:06 am
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I know, right? I was very surprised to hear this and will inquire further as it seems as if it would be contraindicated for EmmaPaws...maybe the tech gave me a wrong name? Used as "light" knock out drug for radiation. And then is reversed which just means she is slightly less knocked out. To say I am not happy is an understatement.

Michigan
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31 January 2017 - 4:30 am
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I found some interesting links on pain management , nothing directly on amps.
I do understand the cats and dogs are different creatures and they are different in a lot of ways
We have been blessed to have both thru the years.

Medications and supplements are not not metabolized the same in them.
You have to be so careful in cats! Medications, supplements , dieting, etc.
In my opinion only 😉 I do not feel pain would differs in animals.
Cutting off a limb is going to be major surgery & pain needs to managed.

I think what is different is the display or lack of display of pain they show, Instinct etc.

This is a link on orthopedic surgery for femoral repair

I find it interesting the pain protocol for this surgery is very much the same between dogs and cats.

https://www.wsava.org/sites/default/files/Orthopedic%20surgery.pdf

Screen-Shot-2017-01-30-at-8.51.11-PM.pngImage Enlarger

I do not wish to see any animal to suffer dog, cat or any living creature!

2015 AAHA/AAFP Pain Management Guidelines
for Dogs and Cats*

https://www.aaha.org/public_documents/professional/guidelines/2015_aaha_aafp_pain_management_guidelines_for_dogs_and_cats.pdf

Another interesting point of view below,  

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https://www.quora.com/How-do-animals-like-cats-and-dogs-feel-painful-sensations

Sally, I agree is ignorance or shortsighted for any species,
I hope the change is a good thing:0
I want other members dog ,cats , chickens whomever not to suffer needlessly.  If we are taking the step to amputate for quality of life purpose regardless of the cause, shouldn't we be able to keep them pain free in recovery without question? I would rather have too much medicine and return it, rather then be running back to the vet a few days later. Most of us are only one person in those times, like we need another stressor running back to the vet for more pain meds ,while are animal is in pain.

Karen,
Thanks you, I was reluctant to post this, I could not hold it in any longer. This eats at me anytime we see a animal in pain here and I thought maybe we could help others in the future and try to get educated. At least share our story.
I hate saying 3 days pain meds is ok for some kitties is it really? Not to mention the ones that come home the same day. How is that enough! I know all animals react differently and no one size fits all. But 3 days? I hated Purrkins had to be in pain! I hate to see others suffer .  (your wording of the "pugs falling apart;)" I had to giggle on the wording, we all fall apart as we get older;)

That is enlighteing couple days of pain meds for any procedure. 

Purrkins was on Fentanyl after surgery in the ICU . Just a tidbit of info.

Kerren,
I think that is great they sent you home with more then needed, & you could return it!
I know its not cheap by any means. I was surprised how secure it all had to be handled .
When I was handed the Bup each time, someone had to get it out of lock up and bring it directly to me. (the vet student who looked after Purrkins told me that) They are not to stop or let the meds out of their sight. (Humans have messed that up along the way) Very sad! We have Metacam here too, we were aware that might be a option. I asked if it could not be for Purrkins. For various reasons.

CharlieBear,
I agree and cats do disguise pain, more so than dogs. I do not think its acceptable to undermedicate for pain. I would like to know for certain that we are and would love to know that answer. Then what can we do about it??? 
This might answer the Bup on CharlieBear

https://ras.research.cornell.edu/care/documents/ACUPs/ACUP104.pdf

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Thank you everyone ! 

Love and Hugs to allheart

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31 January 2017 - 8:47 am
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Pain meds are the most inexpensive part of the whole diagnostic and amputation process. It doesn't make sense to worry about the cost during recovery.

Mona was peeing everywhere except the litter box and, for a brief moment, I thought of taking the buprenorphine for myself. I came to my senses and returned it!!  By the way buprenorphine is in suboxone and is used to treat opiate addiction.

Kerren

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31 January 2017 - 9:06 am
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kazann said
Pain meds are the most inexpensive part of the whole diagnostic and amputation process. It doesn't make sense to worry about the cost during recovery.

I 100% agree on the cost & it does not make any sense! It's change compared to what we already have spent.

We all go this route for a quality of life! 

I had no idea on buprenorphine and its use to treat addiction , I figured it was something people would take since it was so guarded. Just nuts!

I would of looked at the buprenorphine twice when Mona was missing😉  The peeing ? I dont know what that was all about . Maybe Mona can tell us?

Cant imagine what you went thru! oh-my

heart

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31 January 2017 - 9:21 am
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Thanks everyone! I wonder if the vet tech meant butorphanol for Emma? Although Emma was out of it for 6-8 hours last night after her first treatment (and with the reversal). And, if it is buprenorphine ( which is used to treat opiod addiction), then EmmaPaws has been getting in to CharlieBear's meds unbeknownst to me! Not that I blame Emma after all that has gone on. 

I do think that cats are treated quite differently and, again, after the countless hours/days/weeks spent at the Vet School still see many, many more dogs. it just doesn't make sense to me!

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